Trade talks & rumors

[Mainstreet]

Article by By Brian Windhorst and Marc Stein | ESPN.com at link below.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/1...cks-cleveland-cavaliers-oklahoma-city-thunder

 

[devilalum]

He'll probably sign with a contender.

2nd rd pick wouldn't have been such a loss. First Ed Davis, then Tarik Black and now Dalembert...the pattern is that McD is passing on bigs who may be useless offensively but are skilled defensively.

Its like trading a Yugo for a 1970 Ford Fiesta. I'd rather keep my Yugo until I can afford a real car.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Agreed 100%. The belly aching on this forum is so far disconnected from the reality of the franchise right now that its just baffling. My posting amount has dropped by about 80% despite that the team is playing better of late. I pop in and see the same conversation on loop with the same stuff being said no matter what actually just took place on the court.

The claims that the clock is ticking for McD to make a big move are absurd. We're not even a year and a half into his tenure. When he took over the franchise was in its most depressing shape since the drug scandal. Then he makes some moves, the team plays way above expectations and now the sky is falling because we're not magically a balanced roster with a superstar that is contending for a title (an exaggeration I know, but only a mild one compared with the vitriol being tossed around).

Darly Morey is regarded as brilliant around the league for the way he maneuvered the Rockets assets over the years but it took him FIVE YEARS of doing what McD has been doing before he landed a stud, and the team he took over had more to work with than McD did. The posters here would have ran him out of town on a rail halfway through construction.

Its a young winning team, with a young GM and a lot of assets to work with and a puzzle that is not even close to being put together. If someone had told me back in the summer of 2013 that thats what the Suns would be 18 months later I would have called them lunatic.

Well said.

It'll be interesting to see what McD has up his sleeve, I think it would be worth adding an additional big man.

 

[Ronin]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 6m6 minutes ago

Cleveland remaining in pursuit of center Timofy Mozgov, but Denver still reluctant to deal him, league sources tell Yahoo.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm not 100% sure but I think the only thing that the Knicks are getting back is a second round pick.


lol you gotta love the Knicks.

KNICKS wanted to dump Jr Smith asap.

 

[StreetTruckinTitan]

Its like trading a Yugo for a 1970 Ford Fiesta. I'd rather keep my Yugo until I can afford a real car.

That would actually be a very valuable car since the first Ford Fiesta didnt come out until 1976. The Fiesta, as lame as it might be, wins!

 

[AzStevenCal]

KNICKS wanted to dump Jr Smith asap.

They wanted to get rid of their two biggest locker room cancers, Smith and Dalembert.

Steve

 

[Hoop Head]

He'll probably sign with a contender.

2nd rd pick wouldn't have been such a loss. First Ed Davis, then Tarik Black and now Dalembert...the pattern is that McD is passing on bigs who may be useless offensively but are skilled defensively.

Are there ANY reports out there that the Suns had a shot at landing Ed Davis? I've seen his name mentioned a lot by you as someone that McD cost the Suns. You always seem to target McD specifically for all the players we've "missed out" on but there are no reports that he was even a possibility, it takes some interest on his part to want to get the ball rolling on negotiations.

Tarik Black was waived by Houston, who knows if anyone made an offer for him. The Suns or any team in the league could have offered something but Houston declined for whatever reason or no one made an offer because they knew he'd be waived and they could get him for nothing. He was claimed off of waivers by LA. Maybe no contender made an offer thinking they'd grab him once he cleared them and maybe all the teams on the outside of the playoff picture thought they'd pick him up on the waiver wire. Maybe Houston was asking for a late 1st rounder or multiple 2nd rounders? We don't know. The Lakers were the 4th or 5th team given the option of picking him up for nothing in return plus on a really small contract. You can't blame McD for that just like other GM's that thought he could be had outright in 2-3 days after he was waived or that wanted to snag him off of the waiver wire, the Suns had about the 18th shot at him on and on his contract I doubt he would have made it that far.

Dalembert has been a reported cancer in New York plus an underachiever basically his whole career. I'm pretty sure NY planned on keeping him as a throw in, like he was used, so there is no reason for you to blame McD or the Suns on not picking up a player who has been reported as a locker room cancer and a known underachiever his whole career. I wouldn't waste minutes on him or bring him in when it appears the team is finally coming together. He'd be taking minutes from Plumlee and/or Len if he was brought in and Dalembert isn't going to get better while Plumlee and Len are both basically in their 2nd year and still developing. Worse than that maybe Dalembert hurts their progress by getting in their ear and teaching them his bad or lazy habits. Len has shown he's a capable starter who just needs to work on eliminating stupid fouls to see more time and Plumlee needs motivation, it seems like being demoted has helped him some as he's been much more productive off of the bench.

Maybe McD is blowing a chance at players but the 3 you named are backups at best and some with questionable attitudes. There is no indication that we could have picked any of them up. The Suns don't even have a roster spot open since they haven't waived Tony Mitchell yet. Who is to say they didn't try and acquire a Power Forward or Center elsewhere in return for Tolliver? His contract was only on the books for this season since year 2 is not guaranteed. You don't know and speculating over and over about Ed Davis still then adding Tarik Black and now Samuel Dalembert to your list of players McD has screwed up not acquiring is ridiculous.

 

[sunsfan88]

Are there ANY reports out there that the Suns had a shot at landing Ed Davis? I've seen his name mentioned a lot by you as someone that McD cost the Suns. You always seem to target McD specifically for all the players we've "missed out" on but there are no reports that he was even a possibility, it takes some interest on his part to want to get the ball rolling on negotiations.

Tarik Black was waived by Houston, who knows if anyone made an offer for him. The Suns or any team in the league could have offered something but Houston declined for whatever reason or no one made an offer because they knew he'd be waived and they could get him for nothing. He was claimed off of waivers by LA. Maybe no contender made an offer thinking they'd grab him once he cleared them and maybe all the teams on the outside of the playoff picture thought they'd pick him up on the waiver wire. Maybe Houston was asking for a late 1st rounder or multiple 2nd rounders? We don't know. The Lakers were the 4th or 5th team given the option of picking him up for nothing in return plus on a really small contract. You can't blame McD for that just like other GM's that thought he could be had outright in 2-3 days after he was waived or that wanted to snag him off of the waiver wire, the Suns had about the 18th shot at him on and on his contract I doubt he would have made it that far.

Dalembert has been a reported cancer in New York plus an underachiever basically his whole career. I'm pretty sure NY planned on keeping him as a throw in, like he was used, so there is no reason for you to blame McD or the Suns on not picking up a player who has been reported as a locker room cancer and a known underachiever his whole career. I wouldn't waste minutes on him or bring him in when it appears the team is finally coming together. He'd be taking minutes from Plumlee and/or Len if he was brought in and Dalembert isn't going to get better while Plumlee and Len are both basically in their 2nd year and still developing. Worse than that maybe Dalembert hurts their progress by getting in their ear and teaching them his bad or lazy habits. Len has shown he's a capable starter who just needs to work on eliminating stupid fouls to see more time and Plumlee needs motivation, it seems like being demoted has helped him some as he's been much more productive off of the bench.

Maybe McD is blowing a chance at players but the 3 you named are backups at best and some with questionable attitudes. There is no indication that we could have picked any of them up. The Suns don't even have a roster spot open since they haven't waived Tony Mitchell yet. Who is to say they didn't try and acquire a Power Forward or Center elsewhere in return for Tolliver? His contract was only on the books for this season since year 2 is not guaranteed. You don't know and speculating over and over about Ed Davis still then adding Tarik Black and now Samuel Dalembert to your list of players McD has screwed up not acquiring is ridiculous.

Are there any reports out there suggesting that the Suns didn't have a shot at landing Davis?

As for McD thinking that Black could be picked up off waivers...is he stupid? Even me, who has zero NBA credentials, knew that Black wouldn't last til he got to the Suns in the waiver wire order.

None of the 3 guys are world beaters or even starting caliber players (maybe Davis?). But that doesn't change the fact that those guys could help this team in terms of rim protection, rebounding and toughness.

Nobody is saying anything about Dalembert replacing Len as starter but he could provide depth.

But your right, all 3 of these guys play defense and rebound...ew. Lets get some more guards here in the desert preferably point guards

 

[sunsfan88]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 6m6 minutes ago

Is Mozgov the guy that has been dunked on by almost everyone in the NBA?

 

[sunsfan88]

JR Smith was notified during a time out that he was being traded to Cleveland...his reaction:

You must be registered for see images

 

[AzStevenCal]

Are there any reports out there suggesting that the Suns didn't have a shot at landing Davis?

As for McD thinking that Black could be picked up off waivers...is he stupid? Even me, who has zero NBA credentials, knew that Black wouldn't last til he got to the Suns in the waiver wire order.

None of the 3 guys are world beaters or even starting caliber players (maybe Davis?). But that doesn't change the fact that those guys could help this team in terms of rim protection, rebounding and toughness.

Nobody is saying anything about Dalembert replacing Len as starter but he could provide depth.

But your right, all 3 of these guys play defense and rebound...ew. Lets get some more guards here in the desert preferably point guards

This is all nonsense. And the burden to provide evidence should be on you with Davis and these other guys. We have zero access to the front office, it's absurd to assume any of us knows what they've done when no one outside the front office knows. We have no clue.

We know that Davis took a contract that was well below market value. So let's do the math. Why in the world would he take a short term deal for chump change? Could it be that he specifically wanted to show what he could do in LA? Doesn't that make a lot more sense than 30 teams just saying no thanks to a decent big man willing to play for pennies?

New York wants to dump Dalembert because he's a liability on the court and in the locker room but you're convinced he'd help us? And Black? Where is he? Isn't he in the D League? We've gone over this before but there's every possibility that Houston had no desire to help us improve and demanded real value for him before they'd even consider it. And even if they didn't there are still all kinds of reasons that might be in play here.

For example, what if McDonough is convinced the Lakers are looking to move Hill and go cheaper with Black who in many ways is a 2011 version of Hill. Hill would help us a lot more than Black would and unlike Tarik, he'd actually see court time this season. Or what if he has another move planned and can't afford to bring in either the body or the contract? I'm not saying anything like that is in the works, it's just that it grows tiresome to listen to rants about decisions made by McD and Jeff when so little is actually known about their decisions. Offering an opinion is one thing, crucifying them from a position of total ignorance is absurd.

Steve

 

[Hoop Head]

Agree with Steve 100%.

Ed Davis shouldn't even be discussed anymore as someone the Suns or McD screwed up acquiring until you provide some evidence that the Suns had a shot at getting him. Based off of how you treat Ed Davis not signing with the Suns you may as well start blaming McD for the Suns not signing Lebron or Bosh or any other free agent signing this summer, at least it was reported that the Suns spoke with Lebron's agent in the offseason which is more than can be said about Ed Davis.

Black, Davis, Dalembert? None of the players you mentioned have even proven to be solid backups in the NBA let alone difference makers that push us into title contention the way you harp on about them.

 

[sunsfan88]

Agree with Steve 100%.

Ed Davis shouldn't even be discussed anymore as someone the Suns or McD screwed up acquiring until you provide some evidence that the Suns had a shot at getting him. Based off of how you treat Ed Davis not signing with the Suns you may as well start blaming McD for the Suns not signing Lebron or Bosh or any other free agent signing this summer, at least it was reported that the Suns spoke with Lebron's agent in the offseason which is more than can be said about Ed Davis.

Black, Davis, Dalembert? None of the players you mentioned have even proven to be solid backups in the NBA let alone difference makers that push us into title contention the way you harp on about them.

I clearly said that none of those guys would do that or even start on a mediocre team like the Suns.

 

[Chaplin]

I clearly said that none of those guys would do that or even start on a mediocre team like the Suns.

That's not remotely what they are talking about and you know it.

Your ONLY reason for insulting the Suns and McD with unsubstantiated accusations is that there weren't any reports that they DIDN'T have a chance at signing them? That is such a backwards philosophy, it hurts the brain just thinking about it.

 

[JCSunsfan]

This team is starting to gel. And, sorry BC, Dragic is happier now.

From AZCentral

Tightening the rotation to nine players has helped the guards, too, keeping their minutes more consistent while still getting Thomas and Green regular rotation time.

With so much made of Dragic being off the ball more (including by himself), his stats have been quite similar for some time to what he produced when he was an All-NBA third-team selection last season. Over his past 17 games, Dragic is averaging 19.4 points and 4.8 assists with 52.8 percent shooting and 40.5 percent 3-point shooting. Last season, he averaged 20.3 points and 5.9 assists with 50.5 percent shooting and 40.8 percent 3-point shooting.

"We are pushing the ball more," Dragic said. "At the beginning of the season, we were not pushing the ball well and scoring in transition. We are getting better at that. If we do that, it's much easier for us. That's our game."

And that can dictate their fate. The Suns are 8-2 since Dragic returned from an ankle injury to rejoin Bledsoe.

 

[Covert Rain]

JR Smith was notified during a time out that he was being traded to Cleveland...his reaction:

You must be registered for see images

I thought maybe those chile cheese fries he downed before the game caught up with him.

Are there any reports out there suggesting that the Suns didn't have a shot at landing Davis?

As for McD thinking that Black could be picked up off waivers...is he stupid? Even me, who has zero NBA credentials, knew that Black wouldn't last til he got to the Suns in the waiver wire order.

None of the 3 guys are world beaters or even starting caliber players (maybe Davis?). But that doesn't change the fact that those guys could help this team in terms of rim protection, rebounding and toughness.

Nobody is saying anything about Dalembert replacing Len as starter but he could provide depth.

But your right, all 3 of these guys play defense and rebound...ew. Lets get some more guards here in the desert preferably point guards

By the way not following you here one bit. It's not very often you get reporters writing erroneous reports on players they don't have a shot of getting unless they are Superstars. We don't have access to the front office and it's pure speculation on your part no phone call was made. I have heard the front office say on several occasions they make phone calls and field calls every single day.

Are we supposed to hear and get reports about all of them? I think you are jumping the Grand Canyon of assumptions here.

 

[Errntknght]

I followed Ed Davis pretty closely all during the summer having spotted him as a good rebounder and defender from his stats all the way back to the Rudy Gay trade (when he came to Memphis) - also someone who might well be available. Quite a few people thought he'd be a reasonable choice until the Griz failed to make him a QO. The usual interpretation was that there must be something quite with wrong him but it I thought he might well be tired of playing ZRandolph's shadow and let Memphis know he wanted out - a dumb thing to do, admittedly.

Two months later he signed for 1M to play for the Lakers and he's continued his same good play for them. He's not a big time scorer but his offensive efficiency is far and away the highest on the Lakers on top of him being one of their best interior defenders - he leads them in blocked shots, for instance, while you'd expect Jordan Hill to carry that banner.

Of course, we do not know whether the Suns made an effort to get him - they had a world of time to do it - because they're very good at keeping negotiations under wraps. The Suns signed Tolliver during that time, who's only claim to being an NBA player is his ability to shoot 3's - that told me they were only looking among 'stretch 4s' and, naturally, that would not include Davis. They've pretty much admitted that he was a blunder - I was quite impressed by their ability to unload him.

Since there isn't any information we are forced to speculate but the bottom line is they needed a PF and they made about as bad a choice as possible - so they get bad marks for that if nothing else.

I discovered Tarik Black the same way I did Ed Davis and brought his name up as soon as the rumors about Josh Smith to Houston surfaced or maybe it was few days before that because I could see they were overloaded with bigs. His strengths are much like Davis's but I think it was AzSteve who pointed out that Black had reputation as a malcontent or worse so I didn't knock McD too much for not nabbing him - though I wish they'd given him a shot. My idea was to offer the Minny pick, which is destined to become 2 second rounders, before he went on waivers. It would have been a risk but this team is in dire need of help in the paint.

 

[BC867]

This team is starting to gel. And, sorry BC, Dragic is happier now.

Part of that is the slippage of Thomas, moving Goran higher in the PG3 heirarchy during 4th quarters.

It has even been fun to watch. But it's not building anything greater for the future. I hope it's serving a showcasing scenario.

 

[sunsfan88]

I followed Ed Davis pretty closely all during the summer having spotted him as a good rebounder and defender from his stats all the way back to the Rudy Gay trade (when he came to Memphis) - also someone who might well be available. Quite a few people thought he'd be a reasonable choice until the Griz failed to make him a QO. The usual interpretation was that there must be something quite with wrong him but it I thought he might well be tired of playing ZRandolph's shadow and let Memphis know he wanted out - a dumb thing to do, admittedly.

Two months later he signed for 1M to play for the Lakers and he's continued his same good play for them. He's not a big time scorer but his offensive efficiency is far and away the highest on the Lakers on top of him being one of their best interior defenders - he leads them in blocked shots, for instance, while you'd expect Jordan Hill to carry that banner.

Of course, we do not know whether the Suns made an effort to get him - they had a world of time to do it - because they're very good at keeping negotiations under wraps. The Suns signed Tolliver during that time, who's only claim to being an NBA player is his ability to shoot 3's - that told me they were only looking among 'stretch 4s' and, naturally, that would not include Davis. They've pretty much admitted that he was a blunder - I was quite impressed by their ability to unload him.

Since there isn't any information we are forced to speculate but the bottom line is they needed a PF and they made about as bad a choice as possible - so they get bad marks for that if nothing else.

I discovered Tarik Black the same way I did Ed Davis and brought his name up as soon as the rumors about Josh Smith to Houston surfaced or maybe it was few days before that because I could see they were overloaded with bigs. His strengths are much like Davis's but I think it was AzSteve who pointed out that Black had reputation as a malcontent or worse so I didn't knock McD too much for not nabbing him - though I wish they'd given him a shot. My idea was to offer the Minny pick, which is destined to become 2 second rounders, before he went on waivers. It would have been a risk but this team is in dire need of help in the paint.

Exactly.

 

[sunsfan88]

Anyone else think Gerald Green's trade value is dropping by each game?

I wish the Suns would act asap and get something in return from him even if its a late 1st rd pick from a contender who thinks they can use him.

2-9, 0-5 from 3 for Green.

I'm saying it now, Green will be completely useless once he leaves PHX. He will go back to being a bench warmer like he was in Indiana. No other HC will give him the type of long leash that Hornacek trusts him with.

 

[Chaz]

I was impressed with Green's ability to make a contribution despite difficulty shooting outside last night. Shows maturity on his part.

They don't need to dump anyone or determine minutes based on building trade value.
The Suns are looking for that great situation where they can pry a good player away from another team in a bad situation. I don't believe they are looking for a trade to shake up the team or just to get something from pending free agents.

They are playing pretty well and the team seems to be coming together.

 

[JCSunsfan]

OK. If we do make a trade, where do you want to upgrade this roster?

1. Replace Len, and move him to a backup. Ship Miles out or give him scrap end of the bench minutes.
2. Replace Markieff and move him to the bench or trade him.
3. Replace PJ.
4. Trade Bledsoe for a true two guard.
5. Trade Goran for a true two guard. (I don't see the point in trading either of these guys for a pg).

6. Trade IT or Green for another 6th man type, but not a starter.
7. Upgrade the bench.,

Any other options.

I think its clear that the next move the Suns need to make is much more difficult than the accumulating assets mode they have been in. You cannot just "make a move." You have to be patient and wait for the right opportunity. The teams that get stuck in mediocrity and the ones that are always tinkering, making sideways moves.

 

[Ronin]

I guess the Knicks couldn't get anything for these three players, so now they have been released.Not Surprising to say the least.

[URL="https://twitter.com/SportsCenter"]SportsCenter ‏@SportsCenter

3m3 minutes ago

[/URL]THIS JUST IN: Knicks announce they have waived Alex Kirk, Lou Amundson and Lance Thomas, the three players obtained in Monday's trade

.

 

[Ronin]

They trade for him and then they're going to wave him...weird

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 2m2 minutes ago Philadelphia is unlikely to keep Cunningham, who was about to be waived with Clippers until they found a deal today, sources tell Yahoo.

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 19m19 minutes ago The Clippers are trading guard Jared Cunningham to the 76ers, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.