Trade talks & rumors

Chaz

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Once again I don't understand the hand wringing over the unbalanced roster and the constant harping about 3 point guards. It just isn't as big of a deal as some are making of it.

There is not a wrong way to build a good team. Get the best players you can when you can. When there are only 12 players things can change pretty quickly.
I know one thing you don't become a good team by acquiring mediocre players that meet an arbitrary height requirement.
 
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JCSunsfan

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Steve, I am curious if you think that McD is also considering the effect on the rest of the roster. Moving lighter players to heavier positions -- especially at four positions and especially with the game on the line -- could damage the confidence of the roster that is left after a trade or two.

As a fan, I am. You shouldn't ever overlook the foundation.

Since when is having a balanced roster now some sort of prerequisite to having a balanced roster in the future! You collect assets, whatever assets you can get.

I give up. Its a moronic conversation.
 

Errntknght

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I don't believe McD and Hornacek set out to have such an unbalanced team, they signed IT because he represented value at a good price. In fact the team wouldn't be quite so unbalanced if McD hadn't thought a stretch 4 was a necessity and signed Tolliver to that end, overlooking the fact that he really couldn't play the 4 - as his history attests.

Our unbalance is not entirely due to the pressure from below pushing guys up a slot, its also due to the partial vacuum at the top. Its probably wise not to play Len normal starters minutes now as far as his health and development are concerned - though it irks me when he appears to sit because of foul trouble. Plumlee hasn't really earned more minutes than he's getting though it does appear he's coming around a bit since his demotion - I predicted he would so maybe I'm seeing what I want to see. I do think Jeff is missing a bet with Randolph but he's not a long term answer to anything. So we basically have our 3 useful bigs playing 70-75 of the 96 minutes available at PF & C - thats the partial vacuum. I was all for adding Tarik Black to fill in the void since he seems to have done a good job filling in for Terrance Jones, but it could well be that he'd be more trouble than he's worth - Houston had a few other guys they could have waived, but they chose him despite his, statistically, good play.

I'm not really concerned about balance in the abstract but I believe that solid interior defense in one of the most important elements to succeed in the playoffs, and right on its heels is rebounding - maybe more important for a fastbreaking team. And you don't want to have to keep your guards crashing the boards to hold your own on them. So it pretty much comes down to maintaining balance. (Ideally you have rebounders that are so good that if they have good position you can depend on them getting the ball - so a quick look by the guards and wings can tell them if a 'break' is in the offing when the shot goes up... you know, Bill Russel or better. [Thats a joke.])

Our rebounding sucks - we are 28th in rebound differential at almost -3 bds/game, thats with quite good rebounding from our guards and wings. Plum's rebounding is down 18% from last year, Markieff down 15% - probably due to him playing against starters more this year. (And, of course, we traded Ish for IT - a 20% drop there.) Little wonder I wanted Tarik Black.

I'm not looking for blockbuster trades but I am searching for bench bigs who can both defend and rebound and who might be available in the summer if not now.
 

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It wasn't sarcasm, I meant it. But I'll tell you this. If I came across this forum as a Suns fan in search of a place to share my love with fellow fans, I'd read this board for a few days and then move on. I can't believe the constant negativity on this board aimed at our players and our coaching and our GM. Ripping them because you imagine Goran is irate goes beyond all reason for me.


Steve

Agreed 100%. The belly aching on this forum is so far disconnected from the reality of the franchise right now that its just baffling. My posting amount has dropped by about 80% despite that the team is playing better of late. I pop in and see the same conversation on loop with the same stuff being said no matter what actually just took place on the court.

The claims that the clock is ticking for McD to make a big move are absurd. We're not even a year and a half into his tenure. When he took over the franchise was in its most depressing shape since the drug scandal. Then he makes some moves, the team plays way above expectations and now the sky is falling because we're not magically a balanced roster with a superstar that is contending for a title (an exaggeration I know, but only a mild one compared with the vitriol being tossed around).

Darly Morey is regarded as brilliant around the league for the way he maneuvered the Rockets assets over the years but it took him FIVE YEARS of doing what McD has been doing before he landed a stud, and the team he took over had more to work with than McD did. The posters here would have ran him out of town on a rail halfway through construction.

Its a young winning team, with a young GM and a lot of assets to work with and a puzzle that is not even close to being put together. If someone had told me back in the summer of 2013 that thats what the Suns would be 18 months later I would have called them lunatic.
 
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Covert Rain

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I just want the team to show they have something up their sleeve. To show some sign of a plan. We have waited since this franchised was formed for a title here. Show me a plan and I can get behind it. Show me no plan with the status quo of entertaining the masses and it sets me off.

I have purposely for the most part stayed away from the Suns forum this season because my stance about this franchise hasn't really changed much. The team hasn't really changed much. 10 years in under Sarver and no fruit. I have just been watching the games, enjoying some of the development of young talent.

I decided to just enjoy what we have this season and see what unfolds in terms of trades, draft and young talent right now. I am under no delusions we are a contender whatsoever or that this team is destined for greatness right now. I just want to see a solid direction by the franchise.
 
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SirStefan32

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I just want the team to show they have something up their sleeve. To show some sign of a plan. We have waited since this franchised was formed for a title here. Show me a plan and I can get behind it. Show me no plan with the status quo of entertaining the masses and it sets me off.

I have purposely for the most part stayed away from the Suns forum this season because my stance about this franchise hasn't really changed much. The team hasn't really changed much. 10 years in under Sarver and no fruit. I have just been watching the games, enjoying some of the development of young talent.

I decided to just enjoy what we have this season and see what unfolds in terms of trades, draft and young talent right now. I am under no delusions we are a contender whatsoever or that this team is destined for greatness right now. I just want to see a solid direction by the franchise.

Well, we do know what the plan is. McD wants to do here what his mentor did in Boston. You accumulate assets and trade for stars. It's not that we don't know McD's plan, it's that we are not sure he will be able to execute the plan, and the fact that these short-term moves can really bite you in the ass. IT signing itself was fine, but if we lose Dragic because of it, then it wasn't all that great. Theory is great, but if you can't put that theory into practice and actually make something happen, your theory is worthless.
 

SirStefan32

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WOW! I want to see if Larry Sanders comes out publicly and denies this rumor...

Wow, I wonder what he wants to do for a living instead. Such a waste of talent. Imagine if Dudley had Sanders' body and athleticism- he'd be an all-NBA player.
 

JCSunsfan

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I just want the team to show they have something up their sleeve. To show some sign of a plan. We have waited since this franchised was formed for a title here. Show me a plan and I can get behind it. Show me no plan with the status quo of entertaining the masses and it sets me off.

I have purposely for the most part stayed away from the Suns forum this season because my stance about this franchise hasn't really changed much. The team hasn't really changed much. 10 years in under Sarver and no fruit. I have just been watching the games, enjoying some of the development of young talent.

I decided to just enjoy what we have this season and see what unfolds in terms of trades, draft and young talent right now. I am under no delusions we are a contender whatsoever or that this team is destined for greatness right now. I just want to see a solid direction by the franchise.

You want specifics? Why would they do that? It would put them at a competitive disadvantage in executing that plan when negotiating trades and other deals.
 

Ronin

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Frank Isola speculating that Andrea Bargani maybe not on the Knicks much longer...
Frank Isola ‏@FisolaNYDN 1m1 minute ago
I gotta think that if the Big Italian isn't traded by the deadline he might be in line for a buyout or a straight out release.
 

JCSunsfan

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Sounds like a PF/C the Suns would go after.

He would add scoring at the c/pf position and he is a decent shooter out to the 3. He could add a little of what we lost with Frye leaving. He is probably a worse defender and rebounder.

Probably what we were looking for with Tolliver but better.
 

Mainstreet

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The thing is, he is a 12M expiring contract. The Suns would need assurance Bargnani would re-sign with the Suns if the they gave the Knicks anything beyond a second round pick.
 

Covert Rain

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You want specifics? Why would they do that? It would put them at a competitive disadvantage in executing that plan when negotiating trades and other deals.

No. I don't need specifics. I think you can tell when a team has a plan (i.e. stock piling talent, trade assets, draft picks, clearing cap space). The problem has been that the franchise seems to jump all over the place with it's plans. I believe the team actually has one but mentioned above you have to be able to execute that plan which they have not proven they can do yet.

For example, clearing up cap space to sign one or two MAJOR free agents. If that nets you ZERO players....well...you were not very good at executing that plan for whatever reason and all the planning in the world can't help you. Also how a draft pick pans out (even with a great pick) is not guarantee.

If I can get a sense of a plan and feel like the Suns are doing everything possible I can live with that. It might be frustrating but I can live with it for now. That's much better to me than putting a entertaining team out there each year and be in the middle of the pack forever.
 
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sunsfan88

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No. I don't need specifics. I think you can tell when a team has a plan (i.e. stock piling talent, trade assets, draft picks, clearing cap space). The problem has been that the franchise seems to jump all over the place with it's plans. I believe the team actually has one but mentioned above you have to be able to execute that plan which they have not proven they can do yet.

For example, clearing up cap space to sign one or two MAJOR free agents. If that nets you ZERO players....well...you were not very good at executing that plan for whatever reason and all the planning in the world can't help you. Also how a draft pick pans out (even with a great pick) is not guarantee.

If I can get a sense of a plan and feel like the Suns are doing everything possible I can live with that. It might be frustrating but I can live with it for now. That's much better to me than putting a entertaining team out there each year and be in the middle of the pack forever.

That's where I think we're headed unless the Suns give up on their quadruple PG fantasy.
 

Ronin

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Waiters being traded....
Sam Amico ‏@SamAmicoFSO 56s57 seconds ago
Source: Cavs pulled Dion Waiters from starting lineup tonight and are expected to trade him. Beacon Journal also reporting.
 

Ronin

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Here's more...
Dave McMenamin ‏@mcten 1m1 minute ago
Cavs acknowledge that Dion Waiters, Alex Kirk and Lou Amundson are all being discussed in a trade, hence they've been pulled from the game
 

Ronin

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hmm...
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 42s 42 seconds ago
Possible destination for Waiters, league sources tell Yahoo Sports: Oklahoma City.
 

Ronin

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3 way = 3 team trade? I'm confused

Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA · 9s 9 seconds ago
Oklahoma City guard Reggie Jackson could be part of a three-way deal for Dion Waiters, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
 

Ronin

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Sounds like the Knicks maybe the third team...
Al Iannazzone ‏@Al_Iannazzone 4m4 minutes ago
Cavs have pulled three players from tonight's game because they are involved in trade talks. Knicks could be involved as well.
 

SirStefan32

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Waiters is a Bledsoe/IT clone. Let's get it done. We don't have enough selfish undersized shooting guards. :)
 

Ronin

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J.R Smith traded...Knicks were the third team.
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 47s48 seconds ago
New York is sending J.R. Smith to Cleveland, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
 

Ronin

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New York Knicks trading everybody.....lol
Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojYahooNBA 31s31 seconds ago
Along with Waiters, New York is sending Iman Shumpert to the Cavaliers, league sources tell Yahoo Sports.
 

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