Trade up... just do it Keim

[GimmedaBall]

Beat me to the punch, Zeno.

I think I broke GimmedaBall lol

Please Help me Lord! I'm so SICK AND TIRED. Have mercy on my SICK AND TIRED self. That's all I ask.

 

[Zeno]

Yeah, no need to trade up, but we're honestly not that good of a team right now, and trading up now just to have a top 5 pick we can't use next year is going to be more debilitating in the long run. Eventually this team will either be bad enough to have a top pick when a QB is there, or will find a QB at a different point in the draft.

Luck came into play, but who is to say it can't for us? Who's to say Lamar Jackson isn't the best QB in this draft when all is said and done? We genuinely don't know until the games are played.

All I'm saying is, there's way more teams in the league who let their QB come to them than there are teams that successfully traded up. Almost every team in the modern era that has traded up has failed.

When have we ever been bad enough to have the #1 pick? We won't have a top 5 pick next year either, in all likelihood we will drafting in pretty much the same place 12-15 range.

I could care less if it has failed previously, all it takes is 1 time to work, that is it and it would be worth it. Sometimes things don't work until it does.

 

[Solar7]

When have we ever been bad enough to have the #1 pick? We won't have a top 5 pick next year either, in all likelihood we will drafting in pretty much the same place 12-15 range.

I could care less if it has failed previously, all it takes is 1 time to work, that is it and it would be worth it. Sometimes things don't work until it does.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

We haven't been bad enough to get the #1 pick, but it can eventually happen. Our team isn't very good this year, I don't know why you're so sure we'll finish outside the top 10.

 

[gbrim21]

Yeah, no need to trade up, but we're honestly not that good of a team right now, and trading up now just to have a top 5 pick we can't use next year is going to be more debilitating in the long run. Eventually this team will either be bad enough to have a top pick when a QB is there, or will find a QB at a different point in the draft.

Luck came into play, but who is to say it can't for us? Who's to say Lamar Jackson isn't the best QB in this draft when all is said and done? We genuinely don't know until the games are played.

All I'm saying is, there's way more teams in the league who let their QB come to them than there are teams that successfully traded up. Almost every team in the modern era that has traded up has failed.

Here's the thing though: most 1st round QB's in general fail. You are trying to create a correlation to their being traded for, when no correlation exists. It's similar to me saying: show me a QB drafted 15th overall in the first round who was a franchise guy? Nobody comes to mind, so the conclusion is no QB drafted at 15 will be good.

Your argument needs to get away from QB's who were traded for vs those that weren't. There is no correlation there. They aren't destined to fail if traded for. It needs to be: x percent of good QB's are drafted top 5, and y percent of good QB's are drafted top 15(where we stand). I'm not willing to pay the premium for that small increase in the likelihood that the guy we trade up for pans out. That would be a reasonable argument.

As you mentioned in your post that you are fine to wait until we get a top pick some year down the road, that's fine too. I used to be that guy as well. I'm just tired of waiting, but I can respect that position.

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[oaken1]

. Eventually this team will either be bad enough to have a top pick when a QB is there, or will find a QB at a different point in the draft.

Luck came into play, but who is to say it can't for us? Who's to say Lamar Jackson isn't the best QB in this draft when all is said and done? We genuinely don't know until the games are played.

All I'm saying is, there's way more teams in the league who let their QB come to them than there are teams that successfully traded up. Almost every team in the modern era that has traded up has failed.

This philosophy is exactly why the Cardinals have been a league wide joke for 50 years

 

[Zeno]

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

We haven't been bad enough to get the #1 pick, but it can eventually happen. Our team isn't very good this year, I don't know why you're so sure we'll finish outside the top 10.

I am sorry but in the NFL the past gets reset every year--nobody ever wins a playoff game in Green Bay until they do, nobody ever gets to the Super Bowl with a rookie QB until they do, no back up QB is going to beat Tom Brady in the Super Bowl until they do...and on and on.

Because we won 8 games last year with 3 QBs, 1 starter on the OL that started every game, a back up OLB, a rookie at ILB part of the time and our star runningback out for the year. We will win at least 7 games this year and it wouldn't shock me to win 9.

 

[BillsCarnage]

Andrew Luck has to be the most overrated has done nothing QB in league history....

Thought that title went to Ryan Leaf?

 

[Stout]

This philosophy is exactly why the Cardinals have been a league wide joke for 50 years

Bingo.

 

[Solar7]

Here's the thing though: most 1st round QB's in general fail. You are trying to create a correlation to their being traded for, when no correlation exists. It's similar to me saying: show me a QB drafted 15th overall in the first round who was a franchise guy? Nobody comes to mind, so the conclusion is no QB drafted at 15 will be good.

Your argument needs to get away from QB's who were traded for vs those that weren't. There is no correlation there. They aren't destined to fail if traded for. It needs to be: x percent of good QB's are drafted top 5, and y percent of good QB's are drafted top 15(where we stand). I'm not willing to pay the premium for that small increase in the likelihood that the guy we trade up for pans out. That would be a reasonable argument.

As you mentioned in your post that you are fine to wait until we get a top pick some year down the road, that's fine too. I used to be that guy as well. I'm just tired of waiting, but I can respect that position.

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My point about the trades is that teams rarely let franchise QBs go in the first round. Especially in a situation like this year, where there is a huge amount of demand (even from the team you all are proposing we trade with), for top players at the position, that are all ahead of us. Taking the 15th pick is too specific - we have tons of trades to fall back on that didn't turn into anything. I can point out multiple QBs that were drafted outside of the top 10 and are solid starters, but no one seems to be able to invoke a QB success traded for not named Wentz or Goff with this whole thing.

My point is that they are destined to fail if traded for, because smart teams wouldn't let them go, no matter the price. At least they wouldn't let them go to move all the way back to #15, unless the offer was so much in their favor that it couldn't possibly backfire.

This philosophy is exactly why the Cardinals have been a league wide joke for 50 years

Right. We've been a joke because we didn't blow all of our picks on a never-was at QB. Every time we need a QB, we should blow all of our draft picks to move up. 2014 Blake Bortles, step right up, we gave the Jaguars 3 first round picks for you. Winning franchise move.

I am sorry but in the NFL the past gets reset every year--nobody ever wins a playoff game in Green Bay until they do, nobody ever gets to the Super Bowl with a rookie QB until they do, no back up QB is going to beat Tom Brady in the Super Bowl until they do...and on and on.

Because we won 8 games last year with 3 QBs, 1 starter on the OL that started every game, a back up OLB, a rookie at ILB part of the time and our star runningback out for the year. We will win at least 7 games this year and it wouldn't shock me to win 9.

Yeah, cool, let's assume we're going to be the one statistical outlier that does it. Sorry, we've already had our one miracle this decade, getting to the Super Bowl with Kurt Warner with "the worst playoff team of all time." Pardon me while I don't hold my breath that giving up 2-3 years of drafts for a guy that's never thrown a football in the league isn't going to be our ascension.

And feel free to talk about how good our team was last year while ignoring that we lost the player that took the most defensive snaps on our team, did not replace our CB2, and only have 2 WRs on the team that caught more than 40 yards combined on the roster last year. 9 win team, here we come.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I will say this, and I think Solar would agree removed from how to attain that QB, is that if you do not put yourself in position to draft the guy you want or the guy you want does not come to your pick, I do not want us to reach and waste a pick just to take a QB you do not believe in. If you are not able to get your guy, then draft a guy you believe in which might play another position. The reason I am arguing so vehemently to trade up because I do not want us to reach. Now if the Cardinals like a guy like Lauletta and want to risk waiting to draft him... fine, if he's your guy