Trading Nash (Realistic Possibilities)

SunsTzu

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That would make no sense. Nelson and Reddick combine for $14M next year.

Getting rid of Frye's contract would be nice, but I am really not sure paying Reddick and Nelson $14M next year is worth it. Orlando just doesn't have anything to trade. No expiring contracts, and no young talent.

Plus Anderson will be a RFA and will likely be looking at a hefty raise. Anderson is really the only piece they have that is interesting but combing his contract status along with the fact he plays the same position as the only young player with significant upside on the team(as well as one of the deeper positions in the draft) makes him a bit less attractive.

I don't see any deal with Orlando that doesn't include another team(s).
 

AzStevenCal

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I can't see Orlando making a trade this year unless it's to move Howard. I think it's apparent that it isn't "having a chance to win it all" that's prompting his trade demands. He's the most dominant big man in the game and that's pretty easy to build around. He's moving on because his shoe company wants him in a better market and trading for Nash isn't going to change that situation.

I guess Orlando could consider a trade if they thought it would bring them the championship this year before they lose Howard but I can't see them giving up anything of future value for that small chance.

Steve
 

jlove

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The Suns would be extremely stupid if they traded Nash to Orlando. If they did that, Dwight would re-sign taking him off the possibility of signing here this summer. From the word coming out of Orlando, they'd rather him walk and sign with another team than give in to his trade demands.
 
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LOL, "possibility of Howard signing in Phoenix this summer" ROFL, good one.

The only way it's possible is if we are the only team with two max free agents slots available. Howard and Deron Williams seem intent on playing together somewhere. But I believe NJ will have the cap space to sign both as do a few other teams.
 

SirStefan32

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The only way it's possible is if we are the only team with two max free agents slots available. Howard and Deron Williams seem intent on playing together somewhere. But I believe NJ will have the cap space to sign both as do a few other teams.

Yeah, NJ will have enough room to sign both of them to true maximum contracts. Suns will likely have 28-30M to work with, even if they amnesty Chilli.
 

SunsTzu

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The only way it's possible is if we are the only team with two max free agents slots available. Howard and Deron Williams seem intent on playing together somewhere. But I believe NJ will have the cap space to sign both as do a few other teams.

If both don't sign extensions before FA then I think they end up with Dallas.
 

SirStefan32

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If both don't sign extensions before FA then I think they end up with Dallas.

Unless they both decide to sign for about $12M per year, that will not be possible. Dirk, Marion, and Haywood combine for almost $40M already. They could let Odom go, and amnesty Haywood, which would give them enough money to sign Howard and DWill, but they would both have to take paycuts and they would have absolutely no cap space to sign anyone else.
 
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Unless they both decide to sign for about $12M per year, that will not be possible. Dirk, Marion, and Haywood combine for almost $40M already. They could let Odom go, and amnesty Haywood, which would give them enough money to sign Howard and DWill, but they would both have to take paycuts and they would have absolutely no cap space to sign anyone else.

And no MLE. They'd be better off snagging one or the other and adding some complimentary pieces. They could sign Howard and then snag Nash for cheap.
 

SirStefan32

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And no MLE. They'd be better off snagging one or the other and adding some complimentary pieces. They could sign Howard and then snag Nash for cheap.

Dirk and Howard on the same team is really scary. Add Nash and a couple of shooters, and I can't see anyone beating that team in a seven game series.
 

JustWinBaby

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Dirk and Howard on the same team is really scary. Add Nash and a couple of shooters, and I can't see anyone beating that team in a seven game series.

Dirk, Howard and Williams is scarier. I know the problem with getting enough room under the cap. However Cuban will get it done if possible.

Those three would compliment each other unbelievably well, or so it appears.

I would think they would not have any trouble attracting the additional pieces they would require. They have an owner+8
willing to ante up as well.
 

JCSunsfan

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Things are falling apart in New Jersey and its looking more and more like Deron is not going to stay.

That deal and the Melo deal are being observed by GM's around the league who might really start second-guessing the idea of trading for a pending free agent with the hope of signing him, or signing him to super max dollars and gutting your team to do it.

Orlando is now talking about letting Howard hit free agency, knowing that they can offer him nearly $30 million more than anyone else.

Its now getting interesting. The new CBA is giving the Magic a great advantage. I like it. The team that drafts a player should have the best shot by far of keeping him.

This makes the draft a bigger deal and free agency less so.
 
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Things are falling apart in New Jersey and its looking more and more like Deron is not going to stay.

That deal and the Melo deal are being observed by GM's around the league who might really start second-guessing the idea of trading for a pending free agent with the hope of signing him, or signing him to super max dollars and gutting your team to do it.

Orlando is now talking about letting Howard hit free agency, knowing that they can offer him nearly $30 million more than anyone else.

Its now getting interesting. The new CBA is giving the Magic a great advantage. I like it. The team that drafts a player should have the best shot by far of keeping him.

This makes the draft a bigger deal and free agency less so.

It's a good thing our front office switched its scouting focus from the draft to free agency... Ah ****!
 

SunsTzu

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Orlando is now talking about letting Howard hit free agency, knowing that they can offer him nearly $30 million more than anyone else.

I don't really buy this. First off it's not really 30mil unless Howard is out of the league in 4 years. Secondly once he has decided he is going to sign somewhere else the Magic will do a S&T just like every other team that loses a big time FA.
 

slinslin

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Lakers fans are kind of talking about a Bynum for Nash and Gortat deal.

I'd probably do that even more so if the Lakers throw in their pick and Dallas pick or pick up Childress for their trade exemption.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=6ov48ml

Variation A
Phoenix gets
Andrew Bynum
TPE

Lakers get
Steve Nash
Marcin Gortat
Josh Childress

Variation B
Phoenix gets
Andrew Bynum
TPE
Better of Dallas or Lakers pick

Lakers get
Steve Nash
Marcin Gortat
Hakim Warrick

Variation C
Phoenix gets
Andrew Bynum
Dallas pick
Lakers pick

Lakers get
Steve Nash
Marcin Gortat

Variation D
Phoenix gets
Andrew Bynum
Dallas pick
Lakers pick
TPE

Lakers get
Steve Nash
Marcin Gortat
Channing Frye

Lakers improve their overall team. Phoenix gets younger and sets themselves up for the future.
 
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AzStevenCal

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Lakers fans are kind of talking about a Bynum for Nash and Gortat deal.

I'd probably do that even more so if the Lakers throw in their pick and Dallas pick or pick up Childress for their trade exemption.

Nash, Gortat, Childress for Bynum and TPE.

Without the picks it might be the most lopsided trade I've ever heard of. First off, considering attitude, health and contract I wouldn't do a Gortat for Bynum deal even if they tossed in a first round pick. And now you want to toss in Nash also just so we can get a TPE that odds are we would never use??? Insane, absolutely insane. I'd make that deal only if there was a 3rd team that wanted Bynum for an unprotected lottery pick AND the deal would still have to include at least 2 more first round picks. You don't load up the HATED LAKERS for this kind of chump change.

Steve
 

slinslin

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Bynum is as good as Gortat with more upside. 3 years younger but injury history. Their value is probably pretty close. So you have Gortat for Bynum and Nash and Childress for nothing saving us a ton of money and allowing us to amnesty Warrick or Frye next year to get even more capspace.

The TPE is meaningless, Josh Childress is one of the worst contracts in the entire league and we would dump him for the TPE.
 
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AzStevenCal

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Bynum is as good as Gortat with more upside. 3 years younger but injury history.

The TPE is meaningless, Josh Childress is one of the worst contracts in the entire league and we would dump him for the TPE.

Bynum is better than Gortat at his best but he's just too hard to count on. Childress isn't hurting us, dumping him doesn't do anything for the product on the floor and if we reach the point that we need that cap room, then amnesty him. You need to get over your Gortat hate and remember that quality big men carry a premium. Wasting that premium on a guy that wouldn't likely be happy in Phoenix and is way too injury prone makes no sense at all. And sending him along with Nash to the team that most of us consider to be our biggest rival goes beyond absurd.

Steve
 

slinslin

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Why would Bynum not be happy in Phoenix. He would be the #1 option.

Maybe we should trade for nobody anymore because well who would be happy in Phoenix right?

Of course having Childress is bad, if we can dump him for nothing we can use the amnesty on Warrick or Frye instead of having to amnesty Childress. Amnestying Warrick is much much cheaper for Sarver too. Childress is owed 20.000.000 and Warrick 4.000.000.
 

mojorizen7

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Oh hell no,ya'll know how badly i'd like to see Nash somewhere else but if Gortat has to be included these "proposed" deals then no way.
Bynum? This kid has showed up for 1 full season in 6 years.....no thanks.
 

elindholm

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I watch a fair number of Lakers games, and I'm constantly amazed at how poor a finisher Bynum is. I think he panics and rushes because he's afraid of getting sent to the line. He rarely shoots outside of three feet and still converts only 53%. With his body, he should be completely dominant inside, but instead he's a non-factor a lot of the time. The fashion is to blame Bynum's struggles on Bryant hogging all the shots, but if you watch the games, you'll see that Bynum is so unreliable that it's easy to understand why Bryant doesn't trust him.

Bynum is younger and has the (much) more impressive physique, but in fact Gortat is a superior offensive player at this point. Gortat shoots 60% and that includes his little mid-range set shot, which Bynum doesn't have at all. Figure in Bynum's injury history and higher salary, and I'd say that Bynum and Gortat have roughly equal trade value. So then the deals are Nash and maybe a contract dump for a late first-round pick or two. And that would be fine, but nothing to get excited about.
 

slinslin

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A major difference between them is that Bynum scores the majority of his points from post-ups.
Gortat is a gimmick center somewhat. He posts up only like 1/4 of what the other good centers do and is playing pick and roll like 5 times as often. (there is statistical evidence for this actually)

Bynum 72 FG% at Rim and 66.7% assisted.
Gortat 77.6 FG% at Rim and 84.4% assisted. <- 4th highest assisted rate among all players in the league with 20+mpg 10+games and 1+ attempt per game. The 3 above? Markieff Morris, Jermaine ONeal and Kevin Garnett.

From 3-9 feet it is Bynum at 44.7% and 58.8%.
Gortat at 50.9% and 60.7%.
 
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JCSunsfan

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Bynum is as good as Gortat with more upside. 3 years younger but injury history. Their value is probably pretty close. So you have Gortat for Bynum and Nash and Childress for nothing saving us a ton of money and allowing us to amnesty Warrick or Frye next year to get even more capspace.

The TPE is meaningless, Josh Childress is one of the worst contracts in the entire league and we would dump him for the TPE.

Gortat is extremely healthy with no injury issues. So trading Gortat for Bynum is really difficult. Bynum has more upside, but has a lot more risk.

There is absolutely no point in trading Childress. We have the amnesty option. We can only use it on a player that was on the roster when the CBA went into effect. So basically its Frye, Childress, or Warrick. Frye's deal is not that bad (based upon past production) for a big man. Warrick is not that bad either. So amnestying Childress is a no-brainer. We do not need to give up assets to dump his salary.
 
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slinslin

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Yes but even if Bynum blows out his knee his contract expires in 2013 so the risk is not that big. He will be 26 at that time which would be a good time for his next contract if he stays healthy.
Gortat will also be FA in 2013 and turn 30 2 months into the next season. Questionable timing to give someone the first huge contract in his career.
 

elindholm

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A major difference between them is that Bynum scores the majority of his points from post-ups.
Gortat is a gimmick center somewhat. He posts up only like 1/4 of what the other good centers do and is playing pick and roll like 5 times as often. (there is statistical evidence for this actually)

Isn't scoring efficiency more important than where the points come from? Are you telling me you'd rather have a center who shoots only layups, and misses half of them, than one who can go farther out, and make a higher overall percentage of everything?

Bynum 72 FG% at Rim and 66.7% assisted.
Gortat 77.6 FG% at Rim and 84.4% assisted.

So Gortat is a better finisher, as I said, and he plays with a better PG, which is not news.

From 3-9 feet it is Bynum at 44.7% and 58.8%.
Gortat at 50.9% and 60.7%.

Here their "assisted" rates are almost identical, and yet Gortat still converts much more often.

If you were trying to come up with evidence against my point, you should try again.
 
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