Update on Clancy/Brown

[ajcardfan]

[/FONT]
Wow. Talk about the ability to put a negative spin a positive

decision. Yes, it does eat up a lot of space this season. However, in

doing so, give us a huge amount of free cap room in the coming years.

Next year especially, we should have a ton of cap room. The key will

be whether or not we decide to use it.

[/LEFT]

Except if we start cutting, or restructuring deals, we are going to start using that future cap space for this season anyhow. I guess it's "six of one" and a "half dozen of the other" in dollars terms. What doesn't make sense to me is that we're almost forced to thin the roster out due to things besides football alone. I don't think our depth was so kick ass that we can just flick too many players away like boogers.

 

[Redsz]

Urban and Somers are confirming it. This didn't come out of the ether. This story has been out there for weeks.

Where? Somer's doesn't have anything about it on his blog and Urban has only paraphrased the story.

They have only speculated about the possibility of it occouring. Neither have confirmed that it is happening.

 

[Goodyear Card]

The roster bonuses were a mistake. Not only can we not sign our Rookies we also can't extend the contracts of any current players. Now we are in the position of cutting players because we need to free up salary cap space. I don't mind cutting a player based on his performance or if the player is overpaid. I do have a problem with players being cut because we mismanaged the salary cap by using roster bonuses instead of signing bonuses. The roster bonuses were a mistake.

 

[1DS]

The roster bonuses were a mistake. Not only can we not sign our Rookies we also can't extend the contracts of any current players. Now we are in the position of cutting players because we need to free up salary cap space. I don't mind cutting a player based on his performance or if the player is overpaid. I do have a problem with players being cut because we mismanaged the salary cap by using roster bonuses instead of signing bonuses. The roster bonuses were a mistake.

Think of it this way. Generally, when a coach comes in, he "reorganizes"

the roster. He purges the roster of certain players who A: Are overpaid and

underachieve, or, B: Players who the new coaches believe are lacking a

certain trait needed to be successful.


In other words, Wiz can cut those players this season, and then next

season have ample cap space to bring in the players he and his coaches

believe will fit in well with his team.

 

[Pariah]

Wow. Talk about the ability to put a negative spin a positive

decision. Yes, it does eat up a lot of space this season. However, in

doing so, give us a huge amount of free cap room in the coming years.

Next year especially, we should have a ton of cap room. The key will

be whether or not we decide to use it.

​

We've heard this year after year. It's called "keeping the powder dry."

Good times.

 

[Buckybird]

All of this crazy crap took place this offseason. And why did we rehire Rod Graves? I new it was to early to think the Redbirds were on the verge of being a top notch team. Give me a gun now!!!

 

[kerouac9]

Where? Somer's doesn't have anything about it on his blog and Urban has only paraphrased the story.

They have only speculated about the possibility of it occouring. Neither have confirmed that it is happening.

It took me all of 5 seconds to find the story on the EVT blog:

Figuring out who are potential targets would be pure speculation. There are positions that seemed to be logjammed, like nose tackle (where the Cards have draftee Alan Branch as well as Gabe Watson and Kendrick Clancy) and fullback (where the Cards signed a host of rookies, in addition to Terrelle Smith and the undersized Obafemi Ayanbadejo).

Kent Somers carried the same information:

The Cardinals need to create cap space to sign some of their high draft picks, and those moves could come as early as next week.

The rookies aren't expected to sign until July, but the team likely will make moves before then in order to give the players a chance to catch on elsewhere.

There's no firm word on what players might go, but there are some veterans who might be victims. Nose tackle Kendrick Clancy is still running with the starting unit but he has two youngsters close behind, Alan Branch and Gabe Watson.

Fullback Obafemi Ayanbadejo is not the stereotypical blocking fullback, so he might have a hard time finding a place in this offense.

 

[Duckjake]

The roster bonuses were a mistake. Not only can we not sign our Rookies we also can't extend the contracts of any current players. Now we are in the position of cutting players because we need to free up salary cap space. I don't mind cutting a player based on his performance or if the player is overpaid. I do have a problem with players being cut because we mismanaged the salary cap by using roster bonuses instead of signing bonuses. The roster bonuses were a mistake.

Didn't the Cardinals also accelerate some incentive bonuses for current players as well as using roster bonuses for the free agents they brought in?

 

[BigRedArk]

Suweeet.

Why do you think the possibility of cutting Milford Brown and Kendrick Clancy is "sweet" and that the Cards should "do it"?

 

[Redsz]

You must have looked really hard. It took me all of 5 seconds to find the story on the EVT blog:

Kent Somers carried the same information:

No, they aren't confirming anything about the story from PFT. As I said, they are speculating based on numbers at postions.

They haven't confirmed that this is occouring. So I think we all should take what PFT says with a grain of salt until we hear otherwise.

 

[kerouac9]

No, they aren't confirming anything about the story from PFT. As I said, they are speculating based on numbers at postions.

They haven't confirmed that this is occouring. So I think we all should take what PFT says with a grain of salt.

How much do you have to have it spelled out for you? The writing was pretty obviously on the wall. In fact, on Urban's blog from today, he mentions it as fact and then says that the story was "initially broken by" PFT.

You can deny it if you want to, but this story has been out there for a while. Because you don't want to acknowledge it doesn't make it not true.

EDIT: That previous post from me was really rude. Sorry about that. I don't know what I was thinking. Anyway, here's the first line from Urban's blog:

Defensive tackle Kendrick Clancy has been asked to take a pay cut according to his agent, and guard Milford Brown apparently has too.

Urban and Somers care about their reputations and don't report idle gossip. If they say it, you can generally trust that it's true.

 

[Ryanwb]

Does asking both Brown and Clancy to restructure necessarily mean that they will end up with any less guaranteed money?

They asked them to take a pay cut, not restructure

 

[RON_IN_OC]

CLANCY WON'T TAKE A PAY CUT
PFT:

In response to our post regarding the Cardinals' efforts to squeeze defensive tackle Kendrick Clancy and offensive lineman Milford Brown into a pay cut, Clancy's agent says that it's not gonna happen.

"Kendrick will not take a pay cut to stay in Arizona," Ron Del Duca said when we contacted him this afternoon. "We like his contract there as it is now. It's now up to the cardinals to decide to release him or not. If he gets cut I'm confident he'll end up somewhere else, relatively soon."

Indeed, veteran defensive tackles don't hang around long on the open market. Clancy was highly regarded during his stints in Pittsburgh and with the Giants. With Tank Johnson poised to miss up to eight games, Clancy could get a chance to join the NFC's elite team -- and perhaps render Tank expendable.

I think Tank, in 10 games, will have more tackles and sacks...and generally have a larger impact than Clancy could have in 16 games.

 

[joeshmo]

They asked them to take a pay cut, not restructure

Very interesting catch in not only the PFT report but the blogs as well.

Restructure means they rearrange the contract they already signed taking a pay cut means taking money out of their pockets.

If that wording is correct then both are as good as good without question.

Asking a player at their respective ages and neither one sucks, average at the least is almost like a slap in the face and only a PR move to help save face when they are cut. "well they could have stayed, not our fault"

I actually dont mind that either one is cut if it was for football reason and we got through training camp without Lutui, Wells, Branch, or Watson getting injuried. But what happens if even one of them gets injured. Is Ross K the backup NT. Huge gamble to take in a situation that they put themselves in the first place.

A question that I think deserves to be asked and maybe its a good question for someone to email to Sommers or Urban. Have they tried to trade them at all?

We do still have more then a month before we need cap help to sign our 1st and 2nd rounder.

Cap savings of cutting Milford Brown - $1,234,750
Dead Cap space in 2008 due to cutting Brown - $1,106,250

Cap Savings of Cutting Clancy - $712,500
Dead Cap space in 2008 due to cutting clancy - $787,500

So for the price of giving Al Johnson a 2 Mill signing bonus as part of his bonus package we could have kept Brown and Clancy through training camp in case of injury, still have enough to sign our draft picks, then make the needed cuts after training camp for more money to re-sign guys during the season, and all it wold have cost in giving Johnson partial signing bonus would have been chump change of 500K extra in 2008. Hardly enough to hinder your 2008 free agency plans.

But now we could if the rumors are true be worse off depth wise at both interior lines even before the hitting has started when guys get injured and about 2 Mill in dead cap space in 2008.

 

[Scott MS]

Now on the front page of azcentral.com

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/0604nucards-ON.html

 

[az1965]

There's no firm word on what players might go, but there are some veterans who might be victims. Nose tackle Kendrick Clancy is still running with the starting unit but he has two youngsters close behind, Alan Branch and Gabe Watson.

Cutting Clancy because we have two rookies doesn't make sense. Watson was not ready last year and I doubt he will be fully ready this year. We need to keep Clancy another year until both rookies can demonstrate they take up extended duties. It is the same issue again and again with this organization. We keep shooting ourselves on the foot.

 

[Redheart]

Reading the article, sound like a good move by the Cardinals front office.

....cue doom and gloom...

 

[BigWatson]

Why do you think the possibility of cutting Milford Brown and Kendrick Clancy is "sweet" and that the Cards should "do it"?

Because i'm happy with the other guys we have on our team right now (Lutui, Wells, Elton Brown. Watson, Branch).

 

[kerouac9]

Reading the article, sound like a good move by the Cardinals front office.

....cue doom and gloom...

Please explain how this is true.

 

[Redsz]

Now on the front page of azcentral.com

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/0604nucards-ON.html

It's still rather dodgy that they are citing PFT as a source. But if it has been confirmed with Clancy's agent, then it must be going down.

I'm really against this move. Now we have hurt our depth on the interior of both lines.

Great job managing the cap, Cardinals.

 

[nurnay]

Didn't the Cardinals also accelerate some incentive bonuses for current players as well as using roster bonuses for the free agents they brought in?

I don't even pretend to understand how contracts work vs. the cap, so someone help here... I know Edge's contract was great for him because he got a lot of money early in the deal, rather than the usual backloading that most guys get. How much of that is affecting this year's cap?

 

[ajcardfan]

I don't even pretend to understand how contracts work vs. the cap, so someone help here... I know Edge's contract was great for him because he got a lot of money early in the deal, rather than the usual backloading that most guys get. How much of that is affecting this year's cap?

Edge's bonus was absorbed last year. So, that actually helped this season.


What Duckjake is talking about is that the Cards took some of the incentives that guys like Fitz and Leinart earned last year and put the total onto this year's cap instead of spreading it out over the rest of their deals. They also paid the bonuses of most of this year's free agents as roster bonuses, which meant it all counted this year instead of spreading it out as well.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Edge's bonus was absorbed last year. So, that actually helped this season.


What Duckjake is talking about is that the Cards took some of the incentives that guys like Fitz and Leinart earned last year and put the total onto this year's cap instead of spreading it out over the rest of their deals. They also paid the bonuses of most of this year's free agents as roster bonuses, which meant it all counted this year instead of spreading it out as well.

Which I agree with. Losing Milford Brown and Kendrick Clancy due to cap restrictions is fine with me. As well as the fact that by biting the bullet this year we will have our core players under contract next year AND cap room to make a few moves.

Why is losing Milford Brown not a big deal ? Reggie Wells and Lutui are the starters and the right men for the job at those positions. Lutui being a big nasty run blocker, and Wells being a more atheletic pulling guard is a perfect situation for each guy. The depth with Gandy, Ross, Leckey, etc., etc. makes him being here or not a moot point. Pay attention to what happens in this situation since Gandy (unless he excels) might be in it next year.

Why is losing Clancy not a big deal ? Alan Branch, and Gabe Watson. At nose tackle we have 2 big options, and some decent depth as well. IF Branch, and Watson go down in one season it will be crippling to the 3-4 defense. That being said all 3-4 teams find themselves in that kind of situation and most of them do not have the back up (Watson) that we possess.

I would like to have both guys in camp and on the team but we need to sign rookies, and get a little cap room for the the season.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

In a rare and un-precedented move, Arizona Cardinals GM Rod Graves announces that March free agent signee Al Johnson will be cut in June to create cap space for rookie signings. .

 

[Duckjake]

Which I agree with. Losing Milford Brown and Kendrick Clancy due to cap restrictions is fine with me. As well as the fact that by biting the bullet this year we will have our core players under contract next year AND cap room to make a few moves.

But couldn't the Cards simply have released these same guys after the season to get more cap room for 2008?

What I don't understand is that if you are trying to improve the depth on the team why are you releasing veteran players when you really didn't have to do so?