Updated cap spreadsheet

MadCardDisease

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I have a LJ Shelton question.

Didn't he have a $5 Million signing bonus? Would $3 million of it count against this years cap if we cut him? I noticed on the list that his signing bonus was listed at Zero.
 

ajcardfan

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MadCardDisease said:
I have a LJ Shelton question.

Didn't he have a $5 Million signing bonus? Would $3 million of it count against this years cap if we cut him? I noticed on the list that his signing bonus was listed at Zero.

There's been much debate about this. When Shelton was signed, the Cards could take advantage of the rule where they could put as much of his signing bonus onto the cap that year as they wanted to. They had room to put all of it in that year if they wished. But, they also moved a chunk of Davis' future salaries onto that year. So, no one is really sure if they absorbed all of Shelton's bonus or not.
 

Cards Czar

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Mad Card I will explain it again. Shelton signed 1 day before the cut off date in 2003. He received his bonus of 5 million. The cardinals took to 5 million hit for the 2003 season due to them having around 10-11 million still left on the books. Also look at his increase salary increase for 2003 vice 2004. They were trying to get that contract in a cap friendly area for the remainder of his contract.



Mike
 
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ajcardfan

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Cards Czar said:
Mad Card I will explain it again. Shelton signed 1 day before the cut off date in 2003. He received his bonus of 5 million. The cardinals took to 5 million hit for the 2003 season due to them having around 10-11 million still left on the books. Also look at his increase salary increase for 2003 vice 2004. They were trying to get that contract in a cap friendly area for the remainder of his contract.



Mike

I'd be thrilled if that was the case, but I've never seen it in print that they took up all of his bonus. Remember, they did sign other players and move up a big chunk of Davis' money as well.
 

Cards Czar

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Well I am wrong. Am waiting for the left crosses and upper cuts.
found this like from 5 feb 05. The AZ republic stated he has 3.32 mil left on his contract. If you substract that from his salary its .32k that we loose.
So its a wash really.

link
 

MadCardDisease

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Cards Czar said:
Well I am wrong. Am waiting for the left crosses and upper cuts.
found this like from 5 feb 05. The AZ republic stated he has 3.32 mil left on his contract. If you substract that from his salary its .32k that we loose.
So its a wash really.

link

See that is what I thought.

Which means that if we don't get at least an early 2nd rounder for him, then we might as well keep him. Because cutting or trading him will actually cost us cap space.
 

JeffGollin

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The "as of March 3" chart shows the following:

SHELTON
Base: $3.0 Mil
Bonus $0
Total: $3.0 Mil

CLEMENT
Base: $2.4 Mil
Bonus $0.6 Mil
Total: $3.0 Mil

THOMPSON
Base: $2.0 Mil
Bonus $0.7 Mil
Total: $2.7 Mil

SHAWN KING
Base: $0.85 Mil
Bonus $0.25 Mil
Total: $1.1 Mil

If we trade any of these guys, what's the cap savings on each? If we release these guys, what's the cap savings or hit on each?

These are the four guys who appear to be most expendible due to their high compensation within the context of the amount they would contribute to the team next season. I'm guessing that, whether or not they go or stay, could have a sizable influence on how many more FA's we can fit under the cap.

Please enlighten us?
 

MadCardDisease

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JeffGollin said:
The "as of March 3" chart shows the following:

SHELTON
Base: $3.0 Mil
Bonus $0
Total: $3.0 Mil

If we trade any of these guys, what's the cap savings on each? If we release these guys, what's the cap savings or hit on each?

These are the four guys who appear to be most expendible due to their high compensation within the context of the amount they would contribute to the team next season. I'm guessing that, whether or not they go or stay, could have a sizable influence on how many more FA's we can fit under the cap.

Please enlighten us?

If Shelton is not on this team he will create $3.34 of Dead Cap space based on what is left of his bonuses. There will be minimal or no extra cap space created in trading or cutting him.
 
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Cards Czar

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JeffGollin said:
The "as of March 3" chart shows the following:

SHELTON
Base: $3.0 Mil
Bonus $0
Total: $3.0 Mil

CLEMENT
Base: $2.4 Mil
Bonus $0.6 Mil
Total: $3.0 Mil

THOMPSON
Base: $2.0 Mil
Bonus $0.7 Mil
Total: $2.7 Mil

SHAWN KING
Base: $0.85 Mil
Bonus $0.25 Mil
Total: $1.1 Mil

If we trade any of these guys, what's the cap savings on each? If we release these guys, what's the cap savings or hit on each?

These are the four guys who appear to be most expendible due to their high compensation within the context of the amount they would contribute to the team next season. I'm guessing that, whether or not they go or stay, could have a sizable influence on how many more FA's we can fit under the cap.

Please enlighten us?


That was me with the limited info that I had. I been researching the net for any info on Shelton and I found that in AZ republic artical on what his cap hit is.

Below is the artical.


Kent Somers
The Arizona Republic
Feb. 5, 2005 12:00 AM

The Cardinals granted the agent for offensive tackle L.J. Shelton permission to pursue a trade, just 15 months after the team re-signed Shelton to a lucrative contract extension.

"A number of teams have expressed interest," said Eric Metz, an agent based in Phoenix. "We look forward to starting anew someplace else."

Rod Graves, Cardinals vice president of football operations, declined comment, as did Shelton. advertisement

If Shelton leaves, the Cardinals will have paid heavily for his services. In November 2003, he signed a five-year extension that included a $2 million raise in 2003 and a $5 million signing bonus.

Combine that with the $3 million Shelton earned in salary this year, and the Cardinals have paid him $10 million in just more than a year.

When he signed the deal, Shelton expected to be the team's left tackle for years to come. But that changed when Dennis Green became head coach last year. Shelton, who underwent ankle surgery last off-season, showed up to minicamp overweight, putting him on Green's bad side.

Shelton, who had started at left tackle for most of the previous four seasons, was replaced in the starting lineup by Leonard Davis, then earned the starting right tackle's job a month into the season. He finished the season on injured reserve because of a sprained knee.

Shelton has recovered from the injury, and at 29 should draw interest from other teams. He is due to make a salary of $3 million in each of the next four seasons.

Shelton isn't going to be picky about where he plays next, said Metz, whose agency, Lock, Metz and Malinovic, represents Shelton, as does Vance Larimer, who is based in Colorado.

"He has no preference where he lives. He just wants to play football," Metz said. "He's on the right side of 30, and he's proven he can excel in the offensive line at this level."

Metz didn't rule out the possibility of returning to the Cardinals, saying Shelton would handle this off-season "professionally, regardless of the outcome."

If the Cardinals trade Shelton, they would absorb a salary-cap cost of about $3.34 million, the portion of Shelton's signing bonus not accounted for in previous years. The Cardinals should have considerable room under the cap this spring, so they could afford the cap cost of trading Shelton.

I would think this is correct information so that is what I based my info on.


Mike
 

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AntSports Steve said:
The cap includes all TV revenues, all ticket sales, NFL property monies (shirts, hats, all lisensed products), and a few other minor things. All that money is put into one huge pot and divided by 32 teams.

This year that total was $135.4 million. Each team gets that. The salary cap is 63.5% of that total. $135.4 * 63.5 = $85.5 million.

Now, the Cards actually do make less than the other teams, because even thought the ticket sales are included in the cap figure, only 50% of your home ticket sales goes towards the shared pot of cash.

So, say the Redskins have 100,000 seats sold for each of the 10 home games. That's 1 million seats. If they get an average of $50 per seat, that means they keep $25M and give $25 million towards the NFL pot.

Now the Cards have the lowest attendance, lets' say 40,000 per game. That's 400,000 seats and let's set the average seat price at $30. That's $12M. They keep $6M and give $6M towards the NFL pot.

So, when the NFL divides the pot, each team gets $X million. The Cards end up with $X + $6M, while the Redskins end up with $X + $25M.

The Cards are also screwed because they don't get much cash from the following non-shared revenue : parking, stadium naming rights, consessions, and luxury boxes (that's right, the revenue from the best seats is not shared and not included in the cap), and signage.

With the new stadium, the Cards will actually start getting some of this revenue and will slowly approach an equal fininacial footing with the other teams.

But, the NFLPA sees how much of that cash is not included in the cap formula and this next bargining session they will seek to get all this "extra" cash added into the formula. They might not get all of the revenue added in, but they will get a lot of it. That's why the cap is going to go sky high in 2007.

Anyway, the Cards have the cash to spend to the cap if they wish. They just don't have the on-hand cash to dish out huge signing bonuses. They have solved that problem by guarenteeing money or getting players to accept defered bonuses.

Excellent explanation. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Way to break it down Steve.... :thumbup:
 

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I still think Kent Somers Feb 5th article may be incorrect.

Yes, I believe that Shelton got a $5M signing bonus.

But I'm pretty sure the Cards were able to use their 2003 available cap to actually count his signing bonus as a "roster" bonus, helping eat the Cards 2003 $10M cap space up and making Shelton's contract cap friendly for future years.

I believe this based on the USAToday's 2004 Salary Info and the NFLPA's info that states Shelton's 2004 bonus is zero. A zero bonus means that his bonus did indeed count only against the 2003 cap and was not prorated against future years.

I'll try to email Kent Somers and see if he answers.

ADDED :
Got ahold of Somers via email. He confirmed that the NFLPA and Shelton's agent both say it was a $5M signing bonus and they spread it across 6 years. Two years have been used 2003,2004. There are still 4 years of prorated bonus left. So, if traded, all his bonus left ($3.34M) would accellerate into this years cap. Since his salary is $3M trading him would cost, not save, $0.34M.

Maybe the Cards should just keep him?
 
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Cards Czar

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I understand that also and that is what i used in my first post on this. It is confusing to say the least. Somewhere there has to be that info. Ill keep looking.




Mike
 
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joeshmo

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Nevermind I found it.
 
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kerouac9

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joeshmo said:
Hey Ant I have a question for you if you happen to have it at the top of your head.

What is the vet minimum for a player with 3 years in the league. I am trying to find out what Damien Anderson will be making but NFLPA doesnt have his contract updated yet.

Thanks.

Shouldn't it be the same as what Anquan's supposed to make this season? The veteran minimums are always the same. It'll be the same as Scobey, too, right?
 
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joeshmo

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kerouac9 said:
Shouldn't it be the same as what Anquan's supposed to make this season? The veteran minimums are always the same. It'll be the same as Scobey, too, right?

May not be. When Boldin and Scobey signed their contracts the 3rd year amount was the amount of a 3rd year vet 3 years ago. The 3 year vet amount may be more now, but since Boldin and Scobeys deals were already signed it doesnt effect them, only new deals.

I dont think the 3rd year vet minimum has changed since then but I am just making sure.
 

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joeshmo said:
May not be. When Boldin and Scobey signed their contracts the 3rd year amount was the amount of a 3rd year vet 3 years ago. The 3 year vet amount may be more now, but since Boldin and Scobeys deals were already signed it doesnt effect them, only new deals.

I dont think the 3rd year vet minimum has changed since then but I am just making sure.

OIC
 
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joeshmo

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I did a purely speculative estimate for you guys of cap space left after the Ross and Okeafer signings. But until I get the real deals from NFLPA I wont know for sure.

See the front page.
 

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Hey thanks alot thanks alot joeshmo, what you do on this board is great. Thanks for all your hard work.:thumbup:
 
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joeshmo

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Added a few cap body type players that I forgot to add that NFLPA says we have contracts with this year. They have minimal cap implications as most fell below the top 51.

Added Hambrick - 2 year deal - 2005 = $540,000, 2006 = $800,000, not sure about the bonus yet so I will add that later once it becomes available.

Added Ross - 5 year deal - 2.8 mill base every year, 3.5 mill signing bonus which is 700K yearly.

Changed - Sheltons bonus number due to the research of Ant on this thread:http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=49127

But since I put a 1 mill buffer in the dead cap/misc. section becuase I wasnt sure about his bonus I took 1 mill away from that section.
 

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Does the NFLE and the practice squad count against the cap??
If not lets take them off the list JOE. or make a seperate area for them with there cost totals.


Mike
 
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joeshmo

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Cards Czar said:
Does the NFLE and the practice squad count against the cap??
If not lets take them off the list JOE. or make a seperate area for them with there cost totals.


Mike

First of all their is no practice squad during the offseason, but thats besides the point.

But during the offseason only the top 51 salaries count against the cap.

So I include everyone under contract but only count the top 51 in my calculations.

As you can see everyone making 230,000 and a few 305,000 guys are not in the top 51 so they arent even counted against the cap.
 
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joeshmo

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I still dont know Hambricks Bonus yet, The contract detials of Okeafer, Griffith, and Zellner have yet to be released so those numbers have yet to be included as well.

Deleted Karl Williams and Shuan King, and adjusted the dead cap/Misc. accordingly.
 

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I believe Warner got a $2M bonus and a base of $2M. It' no big deal as it still adds up to a $4M cap hit, but during camp, if he sucks and get's cut, or gets a non-fooball related injury, you might want to know that.

I haven't heard that the Cards cut Shawn King yet. I think he's still on the team. If he has more than 1 year left, he might not get cut until after June 1st. How many years did King sign for last year?
 
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joeshmo

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AntSports Steve said:
I haven't heard that the Cards cut Shawn King yet. I think he's still on the team. If he has more than 1 year left, he might not get cut until after June 1st. How many years did King sign for last year?

This was his last year, and yes he was cut, along with Karl Williams today who as well was in his last year.
 
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