Wade, Bosh, Haslem opt out.

[JCSunsfan]

adding Gortat makes them better, but still probably not good enough to beat the Spurs. They somehow need to add Gortat and Lowry (or another solid PG...maybe a Collison who would come cheaper). Then they'd have a pretty complete starting five. Not much of a bench though.

What's clear is that Wade and Bosh are not really that big any more. LeBron's best move would be to leave Miami for some place that has a young core.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What's clear is that Wade and Bosh are not really that big any more. LeBron's best move would be to leave Miami for some place that has a young core.

that I agree with.

 

[Superbone]

adding Gortat makes them better, but still probably not good enough to beat the Spurs. They somehow need to add Gortat and Lowry (or another solid PG...maybe a Collison who would come cheaper). Then they'd have a pretty complete starting five. Not much of a bench though.

The problem with the cheaper alternative is that it puts them on a Collison course.

 

[Superbone]

What's clear is that Wade and Bosh are not really that big any more. LeBron's best move would be to leave Miami for some place that has a young core.

Like... maybe... THE SUNS?!

 

[Cheesebeef]

The problem with the cheaper alternative is that it puts them on a Collison course.

Collison isn't great, but I think he's a decent upgrade from the trash they have at PG right now. in 35 games a starter this year he averaged 15 ppg, 5 assists on 48% fg shooting and 42% from three.

 

[Mainstreet]

The problem with the cheaper alternative is that it puts them on a Collison course.

I like Darren Collison a lot. IMO, he is an underrated player yet to find the right team.

 

[Superbone]

Sorry guys, my post wasn't to be taken seriously. I was just having fun with Collison/collision word similarities.

 

[BC867]

Sorry guys, my post wasn't to be taken seriously. I was just having fun with Collison/collision word similarities.

Add collusion to collision and Collison and you have a trifecta. After all, it is a Miami Heat thread.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Ther is a ton of whinning and bellyaching going on on this thread. Player collusion is a ridiculous term. The players should be commended for caring more about winning than money; isnt that what we are always asking for?

Duncan took less money to win, yet no one has a problem with that.

 

[95pro]

I think the spurs get somewhat of a pass is because the spurs groomed and tailored the players that have been there and selected those players to be with the spurs franchise. Overtime they (players) realized they need to cut their own salaries to better the team.

Wade is established. Bosh and lebron know that Miami had room. The probably call/text each other to align and form a big3. It seems like they were in collusion to form a trio of their own, just in an artificial way.

 

[Mulli]

Ther is a ton of whinning and bellyaching going on on this thread. Player collusion is a ridiculous term. The players should be commended for caring more about winning than money; isnt that what we are always asking for?

Duncan took less money to win, yet no one has a problem with that.

This. Why wouldn't the players want to 1)play where they want to play 2) play with who they want to play with and 3) want to get the best players around them on their team?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ther is a ton of whinning and bellyaching going on on this thread. Player collusion is a ridiculous term. The players should be commended for caring more about winning than money; isnt that what we are always asking for?

Duncan took less money to win, yet no one has a problem with that.

I agree it's not collusion and I don't have a problem with it. However, don't think this board is alone when it comes to having problems with Lebron, Wade and Bosh recruiting each other. How many former "greats" weighed in on this when it first occurred? I can think of a couple of HOFers (Barkley and Jordan) that mocked Lebron and basically accused him of buying a championship ring because he wasn't tough enough to carry a team there himself.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

I agree it's not collusion and I don't have a problem with it. However, don't think this board is alone when it comes to having problems with Lebron, Wade and Bosh recruiting each other. How many former "greats" weighed in on this when it first occurred? I can think of a couple of HOFers (Barkley and Jordan) that mocked Lebron and basically accused him of buying a championship ring because he wasn't tough enough to carry a team there himself.

Steve

and if you want to make the cricitism that he wasn't tough enough to carry a team there himself, that's an argument that can be made...but it's equally as foolish IMO. The only one who can legit make that argument is Jordan, IMO. Kobe had Shaq...the most dominant force in the game and then later needed a trio of stud 7 Footers to win. KG needed HOFers Allen and Pierce to win. Magic played with a freaking HOF All-Star team and so did Bird. NONE of those even came close to winning titles by themselves and pretty much all played on "Super-Teams". Jordan had Pippen and some GREAT role players (Grant, Kukoc, aging Rodman), but none of those were super teams. Then again, that's what makes Jordan the best of all time, IMO. He didn't need to play with the best C of all time (Magic and Kareem), or the best C of hsi generation (Shaq and Kobe), or three seven footers (Kobe and Gasol, Bynum, Odom).

 

[AzStevenCal]

and if you want to make the cricitism that he wasn't tough enough to carry a team there himself, that's an argument that can be made...but it's equally as foolish IMO. The only one who can legit make that argument is Jordan, IMO. Kobe had Shaq...the most dominant force in the game and then later needed a trio of stud 7 Footers to win. KG needed HOFers Allen and Pierce to win. Magic played with a freaking HOF All-Star team and so did Bird. NONE of those even came close to winning titles by themselves and pretty much all played on "Super-Teams". Jordan had Pippen and some GREAT role players (Grant, Kukoc, aging Rodman), but none of those were super teams. Then again, that's what makes Jordan the best of all time, IMO. He didn't need to play with the best C of all time (Magic and Kareem), or the best C of hsi generation (Shaq and Kobe), or three seven footers (Kobe and Gasol, Bynum, Odom).

I'd go for foolish too. Not even Michael would have won it all with the Cleveland cast of bystanders. Michael, at his peak, probably would have carried that first Heat team to a title but I suspect the same could be said of the Lebron of the previous two years. I think Lebron, right now, is the greatest player of all time for most of the game but he still isn't a great closer. He's not bad but he doesn't consistently rise to the next level in the tough moments. For me, that moves him down the list a few notches but only a few. And I still don't think he's peaked.

BTW, I think it's tough to compare back to Magic's era as the league added an additional half dozen teams since the start of the Magic/Bird era. That Lakers team was loaded (although Kareem was past his prime for most of their 80's run) but so were some of the teams they matched up against. A front line of Parrish, McHale and Bird is imposing enough but they had stars around them too. Star players could routinely expect to see star players next to them but expansion and the Salary cap have made it less common. I'm not sure that Michael, Larry, Magic and others wouldn't have considered doing the same thing if they were playing today.

Steve

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd go for foolish too. Not even Michael would have won it all with the Cleveland cast of bystanders. Michael, at his peak, probably would have carried that first Heat team to a title but I suspect the same could be said of the Lebron of the previous two years. I think Lebron, right now, is the greatest player of all time for most of the game but he still isn't a great closer. He's not bad but he doesn't consistently rise to the next level in the tough moments. For me, that moves him down the list a few notches but only a few. And I still don't think he's peaked.

BTW, I think it's tough to compare back to Magic's era as the league added an additional half dozen teams since the start of the Magic/Bird era. That Lakers team was loaded (although Kareem was past his prime for most of their 80's run) but so were some of the teams they matched up against. A front line of Parrish, McHale and Bird is imposing enough but they had stars around them too. Star players could routinely expect to see star players next to them but expansion and the Salary cap have made it less common. I'm not sure that Michael, Larry, Magic and others wouldn't have considered doing the same thing if they were playing today.

Steve

I could agree with all of that. But even with Kareem past his prime, he was still 1st or 2nd team All-NBA from 1980-1986...and they had Worthy who's a HOFer and was named one of the NBA's top 50 players of all time, Byron Scott (who was the 4th pick in the draft) and eventually even added Michael Thompson who was a former 1 pick in the draft. Magic making those comments is ludicrous. Same with Bird who had all-star teams. I mean, people want to talk about competitive disadvantage, there was no bigger disparity between have and have nots back in the 80's when the Lakers super-team went to 9 finals and the Celtics went to 6.

 

[Mulli]

I could agree with all of that. But even with Kareem past his prime, he was still 1st or 2nd team All-NBA from 1980-1986...and they had Worthy who's a HOFer and was named one of the NBA's top 50 players of all time, Byron Scott (who was the 4th pick in the draft) and eventually even added Michael Thompson who was a former 1 pick in the draft. Magic making those comments is ludicrous. Same with Bird who had all-star teams. I mean, people want to talk about competitive disadvantage, there was no bigger disparity between have and have nots back in the 80's when the Lakers super-team went to 9 finals and the Celtics went to 6.

Not ludicrous, just giving him grief like people gave MJ grief, like people gave Shaq grief. No big deal.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Not ludicrous, just giving him grief like people gave MJ grief, like people gave Shaq grief. No big deal.

If we're still talking about Lebron, the grief thrown his way far exceeds anything any of the other superstars had to deal with, excepting perhaps Kareem who was a frequent target of media and fans.

Steve

 

[Mulli]

If we're still talking about Lebron, the grief thrown his way far exceeds anything any of the other superstars had to deal with, excepting perhaps Kareem who was a frequent target of media and fans.

Steve

Google "the decision" or "skip bayless lebron"

haha

 

[AzStevenCal]

Google "the decision" or "skip bayless lebron"

haha

I'm not sure what your point is. Search this forum and you'll find me ranting about "the decision" and the way it was handled. I still don't like it. He was 24 years old (25?) and there were a lot of "adults" involved in this show and the Miami introduction but all the hate seems to go Lebron's way. As I've said before, fans and media softened on Kobe quicker after his vacation rape and subsequent "outing" of Shaq's behavior than they have with James.

Steve

 

[Mulli]

I'm not sure what your point is. Search this forum and you'll find me ranting about "the decision" and the way it was handled. I still don't like it. He was 24 years old (25?) and there were a lot of "adults" involved in this show and the Miami introduction but all the hate seems to go Lebron's way. As I've said before, fans and media softened on Kobe quicker after his vacation rape and subsequent "outing" of Shaq's behavior than they have with James.

Steve

If Kobe was still relevant as a player (sorry Ddugg), the hate for Kobe would still be there.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If Kobe was still relevant as a player (sorry Ddugg), the hate for Kobe would still be there.

Not even. Three years after the rape case he was being courted by just about everyone. It was an amazing rehabilitation. There is still some Kobe hate and there always will be but the internet wouldn't have been abuzz with "Lebroning" five minutes after he was carried from the court. If it had been Kobe, everyone would have rushed to the keyboard or the microphone to point out that it wasn't because he lacked toughness it was to keep from causing further pain or injury. But not with Lebron, with him it was proof that he was soft. No way would they have ran that video over and again on ESPN if that had been Bryant. IMO.

Steve

 

[Mulli]

Not even. Three years after the rape case he was being courted by just about everyone. It was an amazing rehabilitation. There is still some Kobe hate and there always will be but the internet wouldn't have been abuzz with "Lebroning" five minutes after he was carried from the court. If it had been Kobe, everyone would have rushed to the keyboard or the microphone to point out that it wasn't because he lacked toughness it was to keep from causing further pain or injury. But not with Lebron, with him it was proof that he was soft. No way would they have ran that video over and again on ESPN if that had been Bryant. IMO.

Steve

I disagree with you, Uncle Steve.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I disagree with you, Uncle Steve.

I can see that. Not to worry though, I've been wrong in the past myself so I'll not hold this against you.

Steve

 

[KloD]

If Kobe was still relevant as a player (sorry Ddugg), the hate for Kobe would still be there.

He's relevent, but only to Laker fans. I knew he was an asshat long before the rape though, I mean the jerk gave himself a nickname. What kind of loser does that? Shaq? Yep another on my most hated list.

p.s. now that it's been 2 seasons can I remove my sig please?

 

[Mulli]

He's relevent, but only to Laker fans. I knew he was an asshat long before the rape though, I mean the jerk gave himself a nickname. What kind of loser does that? Shaq? Yep another on my most hated list.

p.s. now that it's been 2 seasons can I remove my sig please?

Ya, I have sigs blocked so I didn't even know it was there.