Warner comments on retirement:

Darkside

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In the AZ Republic Warner was discussing what Peyton brings to the table and what the Cards can learn from the current SB teams. Some interesting quotes (I'm sure no one will be surprised, but it was surprising to hear it from Warner himself):

"I think the biggest lesson you learn in this business is when you have a core group of guys that have been successful for you, you've got to keep them," Warner said. "You can't just say, 'We'll replace that guy.' When you have a guy like Anquan Boldin, you say, 'Well, I can find a guy who can run faster, a guy who can do this (better).' But he's a special piece to the puzzle.

"You've got a guy like Antrel Rolle. You say, 'He's not as fast, maybe he doesn't cover as much ground, blah, blah, blah.' (But) he's a playmaker and he's in the Super Bowl again making plays for his team. Karlos Dansby, myself ... these are guys that change the complexion of the game. "

and:

Yes, Warner chose to retire. But he said the load the Cardinals put on him wore him out, a load that would've been lessened by keeping some of their core players.

"Any time a team starts to do that, losing pieces they say are replaceable ... you don't replace great players," Warner said. "They don't come around a dime a dozen. You have to hold on to them. If you can't hold on to all of them, you have to make a committed effort to hold on to some of them and build around them.

"They still have Larry (Fitzgerald), of course, but you need more than that to win in this business. And that's the biggest lesson the Cardinals, and any team, can learn. It's very difficult to replace guys who are integral to a team's success."

I've always wondered what Warner thought, not what people said he thought, but what he actually thought when he retired. I assumed (wrongly it seems) that the game against the Saints took his will away, the will to take that type of punishment for this team. Turns out it was a lot more than that, he just felt like they were putting too much on him and letting core dudes go. :(

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/car...-xlvi-valuable-lessons-arizona-cardinals.html
 

Brian in Mesa

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You also can't break the bank at every position.

Especially when you spent a ton on your aged QB that could have been spent on supporting players had he been willing to play for less.

No sympathy for Kurt from this fan.

Wah wah wah.
 

Cheesebeef

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but people keep telling me none of those guys were core members of the team! Kurt doesn't know what he's talking about!
 

Cheesebeef

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:violin:

You also can't break the bank at every position.

this is true... but in the face of the Bidwills draining the bank and sitting on 30 million bucks in cap space last year and 8 million more this year, the above doesn't really seem to hold much weight to me.
 

NJCardFan

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:violin:

You also can't break the bank at every position.

Especially when you spent a ton on your aged QB that could have been spent on supporting players had he been willing to play for less.

No sympathy for Kurt from this fan.

Wah wah wah.

Uh huh. I suppose you approved of trading Boldin for what amounted to nothing.
 

WarnerHOF

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Kurt retired before the fire sale so his point is moot since his retirement probably played a big part in the Bidwill's not breaking the bank to support Matt freaking Leinart.
 

Brian in Mesa

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Uh huh. I suppose you approved of trading Boldin for what amounted to nothing.

No, but by the time he left he had made it clear he was a whiny little brat about the whole situation. Play out your deal and then get paid or work it out with the team behind the scenes. Seriously though - do not sign a contract if you're not willing to play for that amount of money for those amount of years.

I wanted to keep Boldin and Breaston. I'm sure every fan did.

Dansby and Rolle got paid big time - most at their respective positions when they signed their deals.
 

MoeIsBetter

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Uh huh. I suppose you approved of trading Boldin for what amounted to nothing.

This just isn't true. We traded for a 2nd and got Kerry Rhodes in return (who two seasons ago was arguably our best defender and last season looked to produce but got injured). We got the most out of the Boldin trade that we could have and he didn't want to be here. Kurt can blame the Cards all he wants for that but theres things he's failing to remember correctly:

  • Boldin was approached about extension. He said he'd wait to see what Fitz got. They told him THEN there was a chance he would not get resigned. He took their bluff.
  • We matched what the Giants gave Rolle AND Dansby in every category except guaranteed money. The Cardinals made GOOD decisions by saving and getting replacements. Rhodes is better than Rolle in coverage which gives A-Dub some breathing room for mistakes, and I'll take a young D-Wash over Dansby any day right now.

Maybe Kurt should talk about that the next time he wants to open his mouth about what the Cards should have done. He wanted them to spend spend spend his two years left, but then he would have left after that and we'd be killed in the CAP because of it. He needs to stop whining and realize that spending wisely was the sole reason we went 8-8 last year with sub-par QB play. The Cards made good decisions for their future...Kurt doesn't like to accept that.

EDIT: To top it off, if we had Rolle, Dansby, and Boldin under contract with there cap hits, Fitz never see's the extension he got. There's no way we would have been able to fit all that under the CAP and still keep talent at other positions. Those contracts would ALL still be on the table with years left.
 
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Phrazbit

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They probably could have locked Dansby up to a much more reasonable contract if they didnt franchise him 2 years in a row. Losing Breaston and Boldin hurt but Dansby's departure was a killer, worse than any roster loss outside of Warner's retirement.

But I wont cry over the loss of Rolle. Yes, he is a "play maker" but he makes just as many big plays for his foe by constantly gambling in coverage. Wilson's remarks in the offseason about Rolle make me think the entire locker-room felt the same way.
 

Brian in Mesa

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I agree, Moe. The players either brought in or drafted by the team were quality replacements - like Rhodes and DWash.

The team doesn't do everything right, but they handled these player departures and getting replacements for them very well, IMHO - except at WR. Not happy with Breaston going to KC without a solid replacement.
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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Kerry Rhodes is vast upgrade over Rolle IMO... Dansby the team misses because they were a perfect fit with eachother...Boldin was never coming back unless he got Larry Money and that was not possible, but I did hate losing him... Kurt is basically right with the majority of his points though...
 

WildBB

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Kerry Rhodes is vast upgrade over Rolle IMO... Dansby the team misses because they were a perfect fit with eachother...Boldin was never coming back unless he got Larry Money and that was not possible, but I did hate losing him... Kurt is basically right with the majority of his points though...

I miss Anquan the most. He wouldn't have made them more dominant but efficient enough to lift them over the hump. His presence among his teammates was second to none.

IF the FO had made any effort at all besides lip service he would have signed for what the Ravens eventually got him for. Not Larry $$.

Hopefully they've learned some before they have to make another Dansby like decision (talking Campbell here) to keep on franchising players until they want nothing to do with the org.

They need to focus on the young core members and get them to long term deals sooner than later.
 

Cheesebeef

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Kurt retired before the fire sale so his point is moot since his retirement probably played a big part in the Bidwill's not breaking the bank to support Matt freaking Leinart.

come on man... if a lot of us FANS could see what was coming, I'm pretty sure the leader in the locker-room could see it coming also. it didn't take a crystal ball to figure out what was about to happen that off-season.
 

MoeIsBetter

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come on man... if a lot of us FANS could see what was coming, I'm pretty sure the leader in the locker-room could see it coming also. it didn't take a crystal ball to figure out what was about to happen that off-season.

What I just read from that is our leader QUIT when his team needed him the most.

EDIT: Not just your comments, but Kurts included. Didn't mean to make this seem like an attack at you.
 
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52brandon

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What I just read from that is our leader QUIT when his team needed him the most.

EDIT: Not just your comments, but Kurts included. Didn't mean to make this seem like an attack at you.
I disagree. Kurt busted his ass for the Cardinals. He even offered to give up some of his salary (I believe a mil) to re-sign Q. Our best years were with Kurt at the helm, regardless of how he feels about how the organization handled it's players
 

cardpa

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With the Boldin situation neither side handled it well. It ended up being a game of cat and mouse and Boldin ended up being the mouse. HE wanted a Fitz contract and no one in the league would have given him that. He doesn't have that in Balt.

As far as Dansby and Rolle, neither one wanted to stay here and it would not have made any difference how much (within reason) the FO offered them they were gone.

Warner offering $1 million of his salary was not going to change the Boldin situation. With the numbers they talk about and get $1 million is not a deal breaker.
 

Totally_Red

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Kurt spoke the truth IMO. You can debate one or two of the people lost, e.g. Antrel Rolle, but you can't dispute that losing Q, Rolle, Dansby and Kurt (and the production of James) in one offseason wasn't devastating to the franchise. Each of those players had a different reason for their departure, but you have to think that they caught a glimpse of the near-term future and didn't like it.

Dansby obviously followed the dollars. But Q was within a dropped pass and missed FG of being in the Super Bowl, and Rolle IS there. Hard to say those two made the wrong decision for them.
 

Duckjake

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Kurt spoke the truth IMO. You can debate one or two of the people lost, e.g. Antrel Rolle, but you can't dispute that losing Q, Rolle, Dansby and Kurt (and the production of James) in one offseason wasn't devastating to the franchise. Each of those players had a different reason for their departure, but you have to think that they caught a glimpse of the near-term future and didn't like it.

Dansby obviously followed the dollars. But Q was within a dropped pass and missed FG of being in the Super Bowl, and Rolle IS there. Hard to say those two made the wrong decision for them.

Well said. We talked about it at the time, no team could lose that many key players in one off season and not suffer. Gandy, RWells, Okeafor, Dansby, Rolle, Berry, Boldin, McFadden, and Warner.

9 starters in one off season. Easy to see why the 2010 team was one of Cardinals worst ever. Contrary to popular belief I doubt even having Warner for another year could have saved the 2010 season.

A credit to the Cards that they were able to finish 2011 strong.





However, Warner was being polite and not wanting to single out just one player hid the real reason he retired. Levi Brown moving to Left Tackle. :D
 

RugbyMuffin

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Kurt's just telling it like it is.

+1.

I have been stating this for weeks/months.

2010 - Just look at that roster. Was that a commitment to keep core players ? LOL. I hope not.

Replacing Anquan Boldin ? How did that work out ?

Warner is 100% right, and the Cardinals are, and have been acting like "The Same ol' Cardinals" since they lost in the Superbowl.

Couldn't be happier to have the Cardinals called out for the lack of ability of the front office to get things done, and be a competitive organization.
 

RugbyMuffin

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:violin:

You also can't break the bank at every position.

Especially when you spent a ton on your aged QB that could have been spent on supporting players had he been willing to play for less.

No sympathy for Kurt from this fan.

Wah wah wah.

Sorry that statement has no truth to it.
30 million under the cap in 2010. I don't think that is "breaking the bank".
 

JeffGollin

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Where the Rubber Meets the Road...

Ive been thinking about what Warner was driving at for a month or so before he said it ("great minds..." etc.)

What it comes down to are several points during the course of several seasons where members of the FO have to decide whether "talent trumps intangibles" (or vice versa) when it comes to keeping, releasing, tagging, extending or not-extending a player.

I'm guessing that, in most if not all cases, various members of the Cardinal brain-trust sweat bullets over whether to keep, release or defer decisions on a Boldin, Dansby, Fitz, Breaston, Antrel, A-Dub, or DDock...and they too often "blink."

Those decisions aren't easy (you certainly don't want to end up with 53 really inspirational players who no longer can play worth a lick), but Kurt might be onto something up to a point - i.e. the Cardinal organization might be better advised to have a tad more faith in a player's so-called intangibles and take a few more chances on "character."

(I don't think this is so much a matter of 100% vs. 0% absolutes but more one of degree).
 

BigRedRage

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Uh huh. I suppose you approved of trading Boldin for what amounted to nothing.


Boldin was unhappy and was not going to sign. If we signed him earlier it would have been fine but by the time we traded him, he was done in arizona. Sucks for him too as he was better here than he is there.
 

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