Warner Signs!!!!!!!!!

[SeattleCard]

Worth every penny. Ever since the Ravens game when he came in for Leinart to run the "no-huddle" offense, I knew Leinart was our man.

umm... eh?

 

[Rats]

Glad that Kurt is back on board. This offense can truly accomplish great things the next couple of years. Lets win a Super Bowl!!!

 

[Totally_Red]

Glad it's ovah! Now let's get A-Dub and Q done and start OTA's.

 

[NeverSayDieFan]

FINALLY!! I feel like I had a baby!!

As to if we paid too much?? The guy lead us to the Super Bowl! PRICELESS!! It'll be interesting to see what happens w/Matt now. I see a trade and "The Saint' (cue the "theme"-song) promoted to the #2 spot. GO CARDS!! I need some well-deserved jacuzzi-time!!

 

[WisconsinCard]

To me its sound like a good deal for both sides. KW is being paid very well this year to be our starter. It he faulter then next year he will make 4 mil to be a back up. I know what the cap hits are but in the real worl his salary will be 4 mil next year, not to bad if he's ends up being ML back-up.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Guys dont go bonkers over this 19 mill gauranteed info. They are counting the first years base salary as already in his pockett. 15 mill signing bonus(which is the real true gauranteed amount) + 4 mill in base salary = 19 Mill. he will pockett the first season.

Thats if those amounts are real. The media and especially agents like to play very loosely with the word "gauranteed". It makes me made becuase what they say is gauranteed is not actually gauranteed but it sounds good to possible future players for the agent to try and sign.

It breaks down like this in its simplest form. If he can still play at a high level in year two this contract is perfect. If he cant play in year 2 we have 7.5 mill in dead cap space in 2010.

I am okay with the dead cap space in 2010. At least by NEXT offseason we will know if Matty is the guy or not. Either he will get to play or Kurt will regress.

Sucks that we have to bite the bullet next offseason one way or the other but at least we will still have options at that point to make a move for the betterment of the franchise and more information for which to make that decision.

 

[RedViper]

Thank God. I don't know how much further I'd have been able to go with this team if we hadn't gotten this done. I don't say that lightly. I've had season tix since 92. I've been through the Tom Tupa Cardinals, Buddy Ball, the post 98 Jake years, the Mac and DG eras. Nevertheless, this might have been too much. Anyway. Bring on 09!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Guys dont go bonkers over this 19 mill gauranteed info. They are counting the first years base salary as already in his pockett. 15 mill signing bonus(which is the real true gauranteed amount) + 4 mill in base salary = 19 Mill. he will pockett the first season.

Thats if those amounts are real. The media and especially agents like to play very loosely with the word "gauranteed". It makes me made becuase what they say is gauranteed is not actually gauranteed but it sounds good to possible future players for the agent to try and sign.

It breaks down like this in its simplest form. If he can still play at a high level in year two this contract is perfect. If he cant play in year 2 we have 7.5 mill in dead cap space in 2010.

Joe,

For cap purposes, could the Cards move a larger portion of the 15M guarantee into the possible 2010 uncapped year.... and would this be a good idea?

 

[WildBB]

Glad that Kurt is back on board. This offense can truly accomplish great things the next couple of years. Lets win a Super Bowl!!!

At least there's a good chance! We should definately take the division again. Hopefully things fall into place post season again. Catch Lightning IN A Bottle Again!

 

[Azlen]

I'm definitely glad its done and the whole negotiation process will be forgotten quickly. Now he just needs to go out and repeat his performance from last year minus one key interception.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

I agree with whomever said Leinarts stay in Arizona is in question. I dont think St Pierre is by any means the answer, but if Whiz truly does allow the 2nd spot to be an open competition and Matty boy losses, I presume he is gone.

 

[Big D]

That's a lot of cake to pay the old man but we had to do it. If you have a line that can keep Kurt upright which it appears we finally have and playmakers at the skill positions like we do I think Warner even at this age is worth the money we are giving him.

My first reaction to the signing was also that we may have overpaid but then names like McCown, Blake, King, Plummer, Grahm, Brown, Tupa, ect. started running through my head and pretty much put it in perspective for me. I'm just happy to have a guy the caliber of Warner under center for us regardless of the price tag he came with. By re-signing him we actually have a legit shot at making ANOTHER SB run.

As a long time Cards fan there is part of me still can't even believe I just typed that and it's actually true so it's all good with me!

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If that's really a signing bonus and not a roster bonus -or- really a two year deal and not a one year with a team option for the second, I don't understand what the negotiations were about. They ended up giving MORE than Warner had asked for in the latest "offer" from his agent. I'm interested in the particulars of the deal. I find it odd that they took all that negotiating time last night to get more money in warner's pocket than what he was asking for.

Yesterday, we were informed that both parties had agreed to the $23M total figure over two years ($11.5 per year). The negotiations would be around the breakdown.

There must be some advantage to both parties that the guaranteed figure is at 15 rather than 12... I leave it to Joe to figure it out.

 

[daves]

And unless I am mistaken, some of that money can be used to extend Boldin's current deal.

No it cant. Is not allowed in the current CBA agreement. But they could have a hand shake deal where Warner will "restructure" his 2010 salary from 4 mill to 2 mill if they ever get a deal done with Boldin. But hand shake deals are dicey in their execution or if they ever get executed.

If Warner wants to give up $2M of his money to ensure that Boldin stays with the Cardinals, there's no need to involve the team or dicey contract language.

Warner got the full $23M of his last proposal to the team, from which he was willing to deduct $2M if Boldin signed a new deal with the Cardinals.

So all he has to do now is tell Boldin that he'll write him a personal check for $2M (or the after-tax equivalent!) if Boldin signs a new deal with the Cardinals. With that in mind, any deal from the Cardinals effectively would be worth $2M more than a comparable deal from any other team to which he might hope to be traded.

I'm sure Warner's word is good, but if necessary, a contract could be drawn up between Warner and Boldin that wouldn't be subject to CBA rules.

...dave

 

[ajcardfan]

but now the text that i got says...
"Cardinals sign Kurt Warner to a 2-yr deal 15 signing bonus-19 million guaranteed"

that from KTAR....

Awesome. They totally did the right thing here. It counterbalances the crap Boldin has said about the front office.

 

[joeshmo]

Joe,

For cap purposes, could the Cards move a larger portion of the 15M guarantee into the possible 2010 uncapped year.... and would this be a good idea?

Its a signing bonus so, no they cant.

They only could if they split the years up with roster bonuses, and that is exactly what Warner wasnt going to sign because once the roster bonus was due in 2010 they could have cut him and saved the money. You would have to negotiate a whole new deal in that scenerio.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Same old cheap Cardinals, huh?

As I have always stated, I don't care how much billionaire owners pay millionaire players. I support the move because it's now clear Whisenhunt wanted Warner over Leinart to start for 2009 and maybe 2010.

Leinart's future as a Cardinal is now in doubt. Whisenhunt inherited him and was not invested in choosing him.

Yup!

Double yup!!

i'm sure glad Warner is coming back.

I guess I am the Leinart defender on the board here but I think your logic is circular.

Kurt Warner just took us to the Super Bowl. Wiz would have never dreamed that in a million years. The Cardinals HAVE to re-sign (or attempt to) the NFC Champion QB from both a football perspective and for perception of both the team and the fan base. So the only intended outcome that wouldn’t have proved the point you are trying to make is if they would have not offered Kurt anything and let him walk. I think we can all agree, Pro–Matt or Pro-Kurt, that would have been abject lunacy and wouldn’t have happened with any team.

More telling is HOW LONG this took and what the hold up was. Incentives and guaranteed money in the second year. You think if they had no faith in Matt whatsoever they would have made that such an issue? Then it would have been “sign the guy at all costs” mentality correct? The only potential reasoning where your “Wiz is anti Leinart” theory works is if he thinks St Pierre is the guy over Matt. And if your in that Mitch and Rolle Rocks crowd more power to you.

Your theory and reasoning is flawed. If they didn’t actually think they would have had to turn to Matt at some point in the next two years then this “negotiation” wouldn’t have gotten as far as it did.

People are going to believe what they want to believe but take solace in your theories are rooted in nothing more then conjecture and what YOU think. Not what Wisenhunt thinks.

And until he is traded or cut or there is some sort of public response from the FO stating this I have to think that all other evidence points the other way

 

[cgolden]

Its a signing bonus so, no they cant.

They only could if they split the years up with roster bonuses, and that is exactly what Warner wasnt going to sign because once the roster bonus was due in 2010 they could have cut him and saved the money. You would have to negotiate a whole new deal in that scenerio.

Joe, I didn't read all the way through this thread so you may have already answered this but, is the contract structured so that it's easy to part ways with him after the season? With $19 million up front and just $4 million in year two, it would seem that way to me.

 

[joeshmo]

If Warner wants to give up $2M of his money to ensure that Boldin stays with the Cardinals, there's no need to involve the team or dicey contract language.

Warner got the full $23M of his last proposal to the team, from which he was willing to deduct $2M if Boldin signed a new deal with the Cardinals.

So all he has to do now is tell Boldin that he'll write him a personal check for $2M (or the after-tax equivalent!) if Boldin signs a new deal with the Cardinals. With that in mind, any deal from the Cardinals effectively would be worth $2M more than a comparable deal from any other team to which he might hope to be traded.

I'm sure Warner's word is good, but if necessary, a contract could be drawn up between Warner and Boldin that wouldn't be subject to CBA rules.

...dave

It would be subject to CBA rules because there is something called a "gifiting policy" in the CBA which is in the Contracts each player signs. Still wouldnt work.

There is only one way to do it. Warner willing restructures his deal if and when Boldin signs a new deal. Same conclusion but its a loop hole that has to be followed.

 

[joeshmo]

Joe, I didn't read all the way through this thread so you may have already answered this but, is the contract structured so that it's easy to part ways with him after the season? With $19 million up front and just $4 million in year two, it would seem that way to me.

In terms of out of pocket cost no becuase they already paid him 19 mill for year one. But if there was a cap in 2010(which there isnt right now), there would be 7.5 mill in dead cap space.

 

[WildBB]

In terms of out of pocket cost no becuase they already paid him 19 mill for year one. But if there was a cap in 2010(which there isnt right now), there would be 7.5 mill in dead cap space.

And probably won't be.

 

[joeshmo]

And probably won't be.

Its already set in stone especially without a NFLPA leader yet. Plus the new NFLPA leader is going to make the negotiations that much harder because they will want to be a hard ass and make a name for themselves.

 

[WildBB]

Same old cheap Cardinals, huh?

As I have always stated, I don't care how much billionaire owners pay millionaire players. I support the move because it's now clear Whisenhunt wanted Warner over Leinart to start for 2009 and maybe 2010.

Leinart's future as a Cardinal is now in doubt. Whisenhunt inherited him and was not invested in choosing him.

Yeah...let the Eastern Media stew on this (same Ol' Cheap Cardinals) crap for a while.

Fact is we've sold out UoP Stadium every year of it's existence. People are not used to this fact, that Pro Football is here to stay and we are going to make some NOISE IN THE NFL - RIGHT HERE IN THE VALLEY OF THE SUN!

 

[daves]

[Warner could write Boldin a personal check for $2M if he signs a new deal with the Cardinals]

I'm sure Warner's word is good, but if necessary, a contract could be drawn up between Warner and Boldin that wouldn't be subject to CBA rules.

It would be subject to CBA rules because there is something called a "gifiting policy" in the CBA which is in the Contracts each player signs. Still wouldnt work.

There is only one way to do it. Warner willing restructures his deal if and when Boldin signs a new deal. Same conclusion but its a loop hole that has to be followed.

Really? I'd expect the CBA to outlaw "gifts" between the team and a player or people & organizations with which he's associated. But between two players? Does the CBA prohibit Warner from telling Boldin, "Sign with the Cardinals and i'll give you $2M of my own money"?

And would the CBA really allow Warner to restructure his deal to take $2M less from the team? Wouldn't that have to be a whole new deal? I was under the impression that restructurings always involve more or equal money with a different mix of bonus vs. salary.

Not that any of this is really going to happen - i'm just curious about it all. I certainly defer to joeshmo's knowledge on this topic!

...dave

 

[jefftheshark]

I guess I am the Leinart defender on the board here but I think your logic is circular.

Kurt Warner just took us to the Super Bowl. Wiz would have never dreamed that in a million years. The Cardinals HAVE to re-sign (or attempt to) the NFC Champion QB from both a football perspective and for perception of both the team and the fan base. So the only intended outcome that wouldn’t have proved the point you are trying to make is if they would have not offered Kurt anything and let him walk. I think we can all agree, Pro–Matt or Pro-Kurt, that would have been abject lunacy and wouldn’t have happened with any team.

More telling is HOW LONG this took and what the hold up was. Incentives and guaranteed money in the second year. You think if they had no faith in Matt whatsoever they would have made that such an issue? Then it would have been “sign the guy at all costs” mentality correct? The only potential reasoning where your “Wiz is anti Leinart” theory works is if he thinks St Pierre is the guy over Matt. And if your in that Mitch and Rolle Rocks crowd more power to you.

Your theory and reasoning is flawed. If they didn’t actually think they would have had to turn to Matt at some point in the next two years then this “negotiation” wouldn’t have gotten as far as it did.

People are going to believe what they want to believe but take solace in your theories are rooted in nothing more then conjecture and what YOU think. Not what Wisenhunt thinks.

And until he is traded or cut or there is some sort of public response from the FO stating this I have to think that all other evidence points the other way

I got your back on this one.

Leinart is too valuable as a #2 (see Matt Cassel) to let go and is a great insurance policy at this point, especially when you see what happened to QB's like Gannon, O'Donnell, Johnson, & Dilfer to name a few. You know, the guys who dropped off a cliff after experiencing a late career re-birth.

That being said, I'm glad Warner re-signed with the Cards and they front-loaded the contract as much as possible. Now I can hardly wait for training camp and see for myself how Leinart comes into camp. If he does what Warner did last year and come in with a chiseled exterior and an inner-fire to take out the Camp #1, then I think that Leinart could win the starting job the old-fashioned way, by EARNING it.

If he doesn't show up in Flagstaff looking this way, then he's gone after next year, and personally I'd say "Good Riddance".

JTS