Warner taregeted by others

[ASUCHRIS]

Whisenhunt is the main reason we made the Superbowl, not Kurt Warner.

Believe whatever you want. Whis completely changed his offensive philosophy because Warner is what made this team tick. Warner was the reason we were putting up 30 points a game and the entire offense was predicated on what he did. Warner is the Steve Nash of this team, and everyone on offense benefits because of the threat he poses as a passer.

The fact that you believe Boldin deserves the same money as Warner tells me all I need to know about your opinion of Warner. What was our record without Anquan? I'd love to have seen it without Kurt.

Bottom line, without Warner, we struggle to make the playoffs next year, with him, we have a chance at another super bowl the next 2 years. I think the 10 per number is very fair to him, but you 6.5 number is even more ridiculous than the 14-16 quoted.

 

[joeshmo]

According to a little blurb from Jurecki on the radio and Somers latest blog.

Warners Agent said that two teams called. He said about the phone calls that they were only recruiting type calls. No money or visits scheduled. Still exclusivly talking with Cards about money and continued to do so today and will so till the end of the day. His agent reitterated that Warner wants to stay in AZ. Jurecki's little blrub he mentioned that the Cards raised the ante slightly and isnt sure if it is enough to start to sway the scales if you will.

 

[moklerman]

So that's where the discrepancy lays. Honestly, does anyone expect Warner to repeat the year he just had?

4,000+ yards and 27+ TD's seems pretty reasonable considering what he's done over the last 34 games. If anything, he might exceed his 2008 numbers if the Cardinals remain committed to the running game and don't have a 4 game slump.

 

[Mitch]

Look...

Kurt Warner deserves a fair contract.

Is he a top 5 QB in the league right now?

The answer is yes.

He started the Pro Bowl, finished 3rd in passing in the NFL and took the Cardinals to the Super Bowl.

As I wrote on an earlier thread...what the Cardinals and Warner need to do is agree on a two-year contract with a potential worth of $28M...base salaries amounting to $20...and $8M in incentives such as $1M per Pro Bowl, $1M per Playoff Berth and $2M per Super Bowl win.

This way both sides win.

 

[Urubu Rei]

That's pretty much a one year run then.

maybe that is why warner haven't signed yet.

he may be asking for 2 years of guaranteed money.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Look...

Kurt Warner deserves a fair contract.

Is he a top 5 QB in the league right now?

The answer is yes.

He started the Pro Bowl, finished 3rd in passing in the NFL and took the Cardinals to the Super Bowl.

As I wrote on an earlier thread...what the Cardinals and Warner need to do is agree on a two-year contract with a potential worth of $28M...base salaries amounting to $20...and $8M in incentives such as $1M per Pro Bowl, $1M per Playoff Berth and $2M per Super Bowl win.

This way both sides win.

Seems simple enough...he'll be compensated either way, and if he performs at an elite level again, his pay will be commensurate to it.

 

[az jam]

Look...

Kurt Warner deserves a fair contract.

Is he a top 5 QB in the league right now?

The answer is yes.

He started the Pro Bowl, finished 3rd in passing in the NFL and took the Cardinals to the Super Bowl.

As I wrote on an earlier thread...what the Cardinals and Warner need to do is agree on a two-year contract with a potential worth of $28M...base salaries amounting to $20...and $8M in incentives such as $1M per Pro Bowl, $1M per Playoff Berth and $2M per Super Bowl win.

This way both sides win.

I like the idea of the incentives. Makes good sense rather than an inflated salary for a 38 year qb like Farve got.

 

[CardLogic]

4,000+ yards and 27+ TD's seems pretty reasonable considering what he's done over the last 34 games. If anything, he might exceed his 2008 numbers if the Cardinals remain committed to the running game and don't have a 4 game slump.

If the Cardinals remain committed to a running game that decrease's Warner's numbers.

No intent to jinx, but Warner doesn't start 16 games next year, imo.

 

[moklerman]

Makes good sense rather than an inflated salary for a 38 year qb like Farve got.

Favre's salary wasn't the problem for the Jets. It was the fact that he didn't get a training camp to get ready and that he hurt his arm with a few games to go. Even with all of that though, the Jets beat the undefeated Titans late in the year and were in first place before he got hurt and tried to play injured.

 

[moklerman]

If the Cardinals remain committed to a running game that decrease's Warner's numbers.

No intent to jinx,

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but Warner doesn't start 16 games next year, imo.

Not if you look at what he did the last 5 games of the year. They recommitted to Edge and the running game vs. Seattle and through the playoffs and Warner put up 15 TD's, 4 INT's and 1,400 yards in those 5 games.

Also, he's played in 33/34 games the last two years. Any QB can get hurt at any time regardless of age(Tom Brady, Matt Leinart, Carson Palmer, etc.). You don't sign Warner to a 6 year deal but paying him market value for two years isn't going to kill the Cardinals and shouldn't prevent a deal from happening.

Look at the gaurenteed money that CB's, LB's and DL are getting and it doesn't seem too outrageous for one of the top QB's in the league to want a good portion gaurenteed on the last contract he'll ever sign.

 

[joeshmo]

but paying him market value for two years isn't going to kill the Cardinals and shouldn't prevent a deal from happening.

Look at the gaurenteed money that CB's, LB's and DL are getting and it doesn't seem too outrageous for one of the top QB's in the league to want a good portion gaurenteed on the last contract he'll ever sign.

To bad the Cards are already offering fair market value with HALF of his total contract being gauranteed.

 

[Mitch]

If someone told you at the beginning of last year that the three most highly coveted QB free agents this year would be Matt Cassell, Kurt Warner and Kerry Collins, woud you have ever believed it?

All of them were (supposedly, in Warner's case) slated to be backups.

 

[moklerman]

How is $10M fair market value when Cassell's getting $14M for 1 year? I think that's what's getting lost in all of this talk is Warner's numbers are for two years that he expects to play and perform. Many of the other contracts(Roethlisberger) are long term deals that will never be realized. I don't think you can look at Warner and say that he's "worth" $10M because all of the other QB's are averaging that much. He's not signing on long term so he it's more of a franchise situation.

$10M is still a little low for what he's produced over the last two years especially his post season numbers. No QB in the league compares to what he does in the post season.

 

[CardLogic]

Any QB can get hurt at any time regardless of age(Tom Brady, Matt Leinart, Carson Palmer, etc.).

Hence my comment that Warner will not start 16 next season. It doesn't please me to say it, it's just what I believe will happen.

$10M is still a little low for what he's produced over the last two years

Once again, future contracts are based upon what is expected in the future, not what has been done in the past.

 

[RolleRocks]

To bad the Cards are already offering fair market value with HALF of his total contract being gauranteed.

Matt Cassel got the franchise tag, $14M, the average salary of the top 5 QB's in the league.

Marc Bulger averages $11M/year on his contract.

How is $10M/year for Warner fair market value?

 

[moklerman]

Hence my comment that Warner will not start 16 next season. It doesn't please me to say it, it's just what I believe will happen.

Getting injured is the constant but having a bad feeling has nothing to do with the reality that no QB is immune to injury. Warner has taken more hits than any other Qb the last couple of years and has remained productive so it's paranoid to think that he's suddenly going to get injured because he's going from 37 to 38.

Once again, future contracts are based upon what is expected in the future, not what has been done in the past.

Okay, how do you figure out what is reasonable to expect from a player? Warner has played over two years worth of games at a high level the last two years. That is the closest thing we have to how he is going to play in the future. If he replicates what he's done the last two years in '09, his contract request is perfectly justified.

 

[azsouthendzone]

Once again, future contracts are based upon what is expected in the future, not what has been done in the past.

+1

 

[moklerman]

+1

You're in the $8M camp re: Warner I think and if so, do you really think Warner is just a tiny bit better than Collins(2 YR $15M)?

 

[CardLogic]

Getting injured is the constant but having a bad feeling has nothing to do with the reality that no QB is immune to injury. Warner has taken more hits than any other Qb the last couple of years and has remained productive so it's paranoid to think that he's suddenly going to get injured because he's going from 37 to 38.

As much a Warner got hit this past season (hit not sacked) it was lucky he lasted the entire season. That's not a judgement on Warner, I would say the same about any QB.

Okay, how do you figure out what is reasonable to expect from a player? Warner has played over two years worth of games at a high level the last two years. That is the closest thing we have to how he is going to play in the future. If he replicates what he's done the last two years in '09, his contract request is perfectly justified.

At 38, I expect a players skill to begin to degrade, somewhat rapidly in fact. Now it might not happen until 2010, but it's coming and it's just around the corner.

I don't believe that Warner will have that good of year again next season, but if he does and he is playing for the Cardinals I will be more than happy to be wrong.

 

[moklerman]

At 38, I expect a players skill to begin to degrade, somewhat rapidly in fact. Now it might not happen until 2010, but it's coming and it's just around the corner.

"A player" is fine in general but we're talking specifics. "A" QB generally doesn't even play until he's 35. Warner, as far as I can remember is one of the most healthy QB's at this stage of his career in the history of the game. Moon and Garcia are also up there but Garcia's pretty small and been dealing with injuries.

Warner doesn't have a lot of miles on him relatively speaking and he doesn't rely on a cannon arm to perform at a high level. Nothing in particular, especially considering his performance in the playoffs, indicates a dropoff in ability any time soon. Not in the next year or two.

Injury perhaps but you need look no further than the Cardinals roster to see that the QB spot is just iffy no matter how cautious you are.

 

[CardLogic]

"A" QB generally doesn't even play until he's 35.

Your kidding, right! 35!

Nothing in particular, especially considering his performance in the playoffs, indicates a dropoff in ability any time soon.

One thing does - his age!

 

[Cards232]

First of all, some of you guys really crack me up. You get your panties in a twist over reports that say thus & so. Since when has the local media ever been consistently right? The national media doesn't have a much better record, especially when it comes to the Cards.

That being said, let's look at what the players in this drama have been saying & see how that correlates to current actions. Warner has said he wanted to keep the nucleus together for another SB run. He has stated that the re-working of Boldin's deal would be a significant factor in his decisions. Warner has also recently said he would take less in order to get Boldin's deal re-worked.

Has anyone but me noticed that Warner's reported demands have gone up as Boldin's deal, & maybe others, seemingly get further & further away from getting done? Could it be that Warner &/or his agent have had substantive discussions w/ the Cards & see little appetite on the part of the FO to make any headway in these signings, & thus, if he's going to stay here he might as well get paid what he's really worth? Warner's been down this road before in taking less for the better of the team & got burned to a crisp. As the old saying goes, "burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me". Warner may just be a little gun shy of promises.

For those of you that say Warner will never complete 16 games this next year, didn't you say the same thing this last campaign? Warner is one of the more resilient qb's in the league. Sometimes it's better to keep one's mouth shut & be thought a fool, rather than open the mouth & remove all doubt.

Finally, for those stating we just let Warner walk, be careful what you wish for! Of course I believe there are some here that would love that b/c their lives thrive on negativism. If there's not something to complain about, they are truly not happy. One need look no further than some of these threads throughout the season, & more particular game threads, for vindication of that point.

Just food for thought guys. Here's to hoping for good news over the weekend.

 

[moklerman]

Your kidding, right! 35!

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...No. Most QB's are in and out of the league before they have a chance to play to that age.

One thing does - his age!

Is this Logan's Run? He automatically has to play poorly when he hits 38 regardless of the gazillion factors surrounding him?

He has no significant injuries in his past that are going to be debilitating to him in the next couple of years and he's at no more of a risk than any other QB to a new injury. If he can start 20 games in '08 at 37 years old I think he shouldn't have any problem doing the same in '09 at 38.

 

[RolleRocks]

First of all, some of you guys really crack me up. You get your panties in a twist over reports that say thus & so. Since when has the local media ever been consistently right? The national media doesn't have a much better record, especially when it comes to the Cards.

That being said, let's look at what the players in this drama have been saying & see how that correlates to current actions. Warner has said he wanted to keep the nucleus together for another SB run. He has stated that the re-working of Boldin's deal would be a significant factor in his decisions. Warner has also recently said he would take less in order to get Boldin's deal re-worked.

Has anyone but me noticed that Warner's reported demands have gone up as Boldin's deal, & maybe others, seemingly get further & further away from getting done? Could it be that Warner &/or his agent have had substantive discussions w/ the Cards & see little appetite on the part of the FO to make any headway in these signings, & thus, if he's going to stay here he might as well get paid what he's really worth? Warner's been down this road before in taking less for the better of the team & got burned to a crisp. As the old saying goes, "burn me once, shame on you. Burn me twice, shame on me". Warner may just be a little gun shy of promises.

For those of you that say Warner will never complete 16 games this next year, didn't you say the same thing this last campaign? Warner is one of the more resilient qb's in the league. Sometimes it's better to keep one's mouth shut & be thought a fool, rather than open the mouth & remove all doubt.

Finally, for those stating we just let Warner walk, be careful what you wish for! Of course I believe there are some here that would love that b/c their lives thrive on negativism. If there's not something to complain about, they are truly not happy. One need look no further than some of these threads throughout the season, & more particular game threads, for vindication of that point.

Just food for thought guys. Here's to hoping for good news over the weekend.

Great post.

Well thought out.

And I would add this....if Warner were to end up in SF, the Niners would suddenly find themselves as the hands-down NFC West favorite.

 

[Cards232]

Your kidding, right! 35! One thing does - his age!

Just out of curiosity Cardlogic, is there anything in Warner's career that hasn't defied conventional wisdom & logic? Was this year not a perfect example of that? How many 37 year olds have done what he did this year? Other than conventional wisdom that would say Warner should drop off next year b/c of his age, is there anything in his performance this year or since that would suggest that to be a given? His whole career is about beating the odds at every turn. Anything in his performance that would indicate this next year to be the exception? Please don't use his age, b/c age should have been the issue this year. Was it? Next.