Was it me or did Janet Jackson's breast pop out during halftime?

[Jersey Girl]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
I wasnt bothered by it and yes I am younger than 35, but if I had kids watching it then I would have been upset!

That was my point as well!

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by LVCARDFREAK
Having said that, I will only say that no soldier ever died for the Flag. PERIOD. That isnt the reason countries go to war, it isnt what this country was founded on, and has nothign to do with the real meaning behind this arguement.

"It's the soldier who salutes the flag, serves the flag, whose coffin is draped with the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag!!!""

So what this is saying is that you are willing to go to war for something you believe in but then outlaw it? If you go to war to protect the freedoms (not the flag), the democracy (not the flag), and the consitution (not the flag) then why would you want to legislate it? Makes no sense to me.


"It's completely outrageous, disgusting and repugnant that I and others have fought and served to win and defend our freedom, only to have ingrates abuse that freedom by desecrating MY F-ING COUNTRY. They've spit on us, sworn at us, derided us, and abused us. Yet without us, they would be slaves, lackeys or 2nd-rate citizens. God bless the U.S.A., huh?"

No one is desecrating your country! It is a flag, a piece of cloth, it is not our collective "freedoms", it is not our collective "inalienable rights" it is a PIECE OF CLOTH!

If you fought for your country for freedom, why would you not be happy to see someone with THE ABILITY TO BURN THE FLAG WITHOUT BEING THROWN IN JAIL? Isnt that freedom?

First, in response to this:
'Having said that, I will only say that no soldier ever died for the Flag. PERIOD. That isnt the reason countries go to war, it isnt what this country was founded on, and has nothign to do with the real meaning behind this arguement.'---

You are wrong. Dead wrong. What happens when the flag falls on the battlefield? Soldiers will charge into the jaws of certain death to retrieve the flag and raise our colors once again. What is a soldier supposed to do when their base is overrun? I won't elaborate on the ceremony, but they are supposed to retrieve the colors before they retreat, even if it means certain death. You see, soldiers have OFTEN died for the flag, it has been immortalized in song (Star-spangled banner), and we STILL die for it (remember the movie rules of engagement, when they retrieved the flag? These things still happen).

To your second part, I refer to my post above. I readily admit, I'm very torn on the subject. Suffice to say here, I personally believe death for burning our flag out of malice is just about the right punishment, but no way is that legal. I'd have a difficult time proving legislation against it is strictly legal as well.

As to the last two paragraphs...you just don't get it. It's not just a 'piece of cloth'. It's our country. Is the statue of liberty just a bunch of copper? Was the world trade center just a bunch of metal and glass? No, and our flag isn't just a 'piece of cloth'.

As to being HAPPY to see someone with the right to burn the flag? Are you insane? I won't insult you by saying what I want to say, but suffice to say, Hanoi Jane Fonda was happy to see flags burning. She was also happy to spit upon POWs and turn them over to torture.

 

[Rivercard]

Hey Stout. Been curious for a while - who is that a picture of on your signature?

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Stout
First, in response to this:
'Having said that, I will only say that no soldier ever died for the Flag. PERIOD. That isnt the reason countries go to war, it isnt what this country was founded on, and has nothign to do with the real meaning behind this arguement.'---

You are wrong. Dead wrong. What happens when the flag falls on the battlefield? Soldiers will charge into the jaws of certain death to retrieve the flag and raise our colors once again. What is a soldier supposed to do when their base is overrun? I won't elaborate on the ceremony, but they are supposed to retrieve the colors before they retreat, even if it means certain death. You see, soldiers have OFTEN died for the flag,
They have died for what the flag represents not the piece of cloth that is the flag-big difference it has been immortalized in song (Star-spangled banner), and we STILL die for it (remember the movie rules of engagement, when they retrieved the flag? These things still happen).

To your second part, I refer to my post above. I readily admit, I'm very torn on the subject. Suffice to say here, I personally believe death for burning our flag out of malice is just about the right punishment, but no way is that legal. I'd have a difficult time proving legislation against it is strictly legal as well.

As to the last two paragraphs...you just don't get it. It's not just a 'piece of cloth'. It's our country. Is the statue of liberty just a bunch of copper? Yes in a sense it is. It might represent something but it is meerly a strucutre. Was the world trade center just a bunch of metal and glass? Not even close to the same thing. It was a building that was attacked and 2500+ people died. It is not a symbol. No, and our flag isn't just a 'piece of cloth'. Yes it is when you start saying you want to limit the rights of citizens to express themselves freely. It is a peice of cloth when you say it is OK to deface as long as your intentions are "The same as mine". Bt as soon as they differ lets outlaw it!

As to being HAPPY to see someone with the right to burn the flag? Are you insane? I won't insult you by saying what I want to say, but suffice to say, Hanoi Jane Fonda was happy to see flags burning. She was also happy to spit upon POWs and turn them over to torture.

So you think everything should be outlawed unless they think like you? Was it OK to burn bra's, draft cards etc? But just not the flag? Do we all have to have a short list of things we can and cant do based on what our intentions are?

You dont get it Stout. You think the Flag is what this country is all about and I say it is a symbol nothign more. No soldier said "Yeah lets go to war because someone spit on our flag!" Thats crazy. No President has ever order troops to foreign land because someone burned the flag!

It seems you are very eager to limit the freedoms you say you have "fought for". I dont know about you, but I still want to live in a country that has the fredom of speech and to assemble and to "...petition governement for a redress of grievances" You seems to only want to allow this if it fits neatly into your little idea of what "Freedom" is!

 

[Chaz]

People should be free to burn the flag as long as it is their own property. I think an amendment to protect the flag is a waste of time.

Having said that I am often bothered personally by poor treatment of the flag. People that leave the flag out at night with out lighting, lower it to half staff when it is not supposed to be, and some clothing that use the flag all bother me.

I thought the Kid Rock flag poncho was distasteful and disrespectful but was not offended by it. I don't think he meant it in a disrespectful way. I think he meant to demonstrate his pride in the country (or his thanks for the living he is able to make here). I also think draping yourself in the flag is a self serving and self promoting act and rarely is for selfless reasons.

 

[Rivercard]

I'm all for more nudity on television. Seriously. We are a bunch of prudes compared to many countries out there.

 

[Stout]

LV, I'm going to quit arguing with you. I am PERSONALLY against flag burning and, PERSONALLY would deal with flag burners harshly. I am not a lawmaker, though, and I doubt lawmakers will ever pass such a mandate. It isn't constitutional. But go ahead and keep pushing what you want to push. I WANT a law against it, but I understand there CAN'T be a law against it.

As a final observation, it's quite clear to me you understand very little about our flag and its representation of our country. No, we can't do anything but get angry over foreigners disrespecting our flag. I hate it, but they aren't U.S. citizens, so it's hard to say 'I don't think they should do it'. It's a hell of a lot easier for me to condemn people who live under the flag's protection, though, when they refuse to acknowledge...well, hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say, but I'm resigned to the fact that you see no representational value to the flag and just see it as a little piece of cloth. Why don't we just fly boxer shorts then?

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Rivercard
Hey Stout. Been curious for a while - who is that a picture of on your signature?

Three main characters from a very good movie, Boondock Saints.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Originally posted by Stout
LV, I'm going to quit arguing with you. I am PERSONALLY against flag burning and, PERSONALLY would deal with flag burners harshly. I am not a lawmaker, though, and I doubt lawmakers will ever pass such a mandate. It isn't constitutional. But go ahead and keep pushing what you want to push. I WANT a law against it, but I understand there CAN'T be a law against it.

As a final observation, it's quite clear to me you understand very little about our flag and its representation of our country. No, we can't do anything but get angry over foreigners disrespecting our flag. I hate it, but they aren't U.S. citizens, so it's hard to say 'I don't think they should do it'. It's a hell of a lot easier for me to condemn people who live under the flag's protection, though, when they refuse to acknowledge...well, hopefully you understand what I'm trying to say, but I'm resigned to the fact that you see no representational value to the flag and just see it as a little piece of cloth. Why don't we just fly boxer shorts then?

I agree on the quit arguing so this will be my last response.

Bottom line is I too, dont like it when US Citizens burn the flag. I think it is tasteless, disrespectful, and I dont agree with it. However, I unlike you, feel the people doing this act are doing so because they have the freedom to do so. And I, nor you, nor any other citizens of the US have the right to outlaw the freedom to perform such acts. If you do want this law, then I an only assume you arent the 'defender of freedom' you seem to claim!

I do find representational value in the flag, but unlike you, dont feel when soemone burns the flag, they are taking away our collective freedoms. Quite the opposite-they are enjoying them!

I wont respond to the boxer shorts comment because if I did I would have to resign myself to the fact that I didnt make my point clearly enough these lasts posts....

Anyway, good debate, Go Cards and all that stuff....

 

[Rivercard]

Originally posted by Stout
Why don't we just fly boxer shorts then?

I've got my boxers flying on the clothsline in the back yard.

 

[wierwolf]

What about that commercial for the new Charie Sheen TV show. A woman I think in her night gown bends over in the kitchen you could see her panty covered butt, the little boy and adult went "whoa" staring at her? Sex and children. Granted it was all in comedy and I thought it to be funny, but I guess you all might have screamed that distasteful. I too am 30 so I fall in the above category. I don't condone the half time show, but it didn't bother me either. Now would you also scream at ESPN for showing the best hits of the year in a segment of Sportcenter. For it may teach violence to kids when people celebrate after potentially killing someone.

 

[KingLouieLouie]

She should have just double cupped it!

 

[Krangodnzr]

I like boobies.

 

[PDXChris]

Originally posted by Krangthebrain
I like boobies.

 

[arthurracoon]

One teacher in our school came to tell us about something, and finished his sphiel with a joke:


When Carolina Panther's coach John Fox was asked about the Jackson incident during the halftime show he replied:

I'd have gone for two!


This is only a joke...In no way is this true in any shape or form.

 

[Billy Flynt]

I already used that joke earlier in this thread.

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by casablanca


I already used that joke earlier in this thread.

Sorry I haven't read the whole thread.

sorry

 

[40yearfan]

Stout, I have to agree with you concerning our American flag. If I ever came across someone burning it, I would shove the lit end up their rectum and pull it through their mouth.

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Stout, I have to agree with you concerning our American flag. If I ever came across someone burning it, I would shove the lit end up their rectum and pull it through their mouth.

 

[arthurracoon]

Originally posted by 40yearfan
Stout, I have to agree with you concerning our American flag. If I ever came across someone burning it, I would shove the lit end up their rectum and pull it through their mouth.

But wouldn't that act of violence be even worse than them burning the flag?

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.