We should have drafted Pacman

[Arizona's Finest]

I dont have a short memeory. Rolle will be a very good, very physical...safety. He dos not have the natural cover skills Jones has and never will. This isnt a knock on Rolle, just that a guy like Jones, imo, will develop into a Bailey, McCallister type cb who can shut down a wr. Is he there yet? No, but just watching him you can see his skill level. The way he puts his hands on a guy, the way he moves his hips and his closing speed is 1st rate.

Plus he is gonna be an exciting punt returner as well....

u do have a short memory...there is nothing in the game tapes thats shows rolle doesn't have the body to play CB....he had been beaten but so has pacman (more so infact) and even your beloved champ bailey...

i agree that later on in his career a move to safety is a possible one but this is the same guy who went on the island against every player he faced at UM. he shut down Fitz and Boldin when both were at the top of their collegiate games and he didn't even get thrown at his senior year leading to his low stats.

On a radio show i listen to out here, Chad Johnson was working out in Miami and being Chad, he challenged rolle to a square off. Rolle later said he had just worked out for two hours but couldn't pass up the opportunity. Quote on Quote Chad Johnson after the match-up. "dude is going to be an elite cornerback in this league. the cardinals got themselves a player" Everyone wants to say Antrell doesn't have the body to be a NFL corner but its just plain wrong. He went up against the best players in practice and in games. Larry Coker said it was "a joke" when asked before the draft if Rolle had the swivel in his hips to play corner in the NFL.

The problem is he was not properly utilized at first. He is a bigger, more physical, and bigger playmaker than a very successfull corner in Tampa Bay with a similar body type. The difference: well besides experience, Ronde Barber plays in a scheme (Cover 2) that maximizes his bump and run and physicallity M.O. and allows him to roam and make plays.

You are so off base with this thread its ridiculous. Rolle is the one player in this draft i was not worried about (actually him and Caddillac) and at the end of next season you will realize how dumb it really sounds. Pacman Jones???? Lil' John with a bigger attitude. F--K that guy......Boldin had a bad game and thats all...no need to overreact

 

[duckfallas]

I'd rather have Rolle. Rolle could easily move to safety and he covers better than I thought he would for a rookie. Jones didn't impress me much. He's no KVB!

 

[Russ Smith]

FYI the guy on PFW doing the chat on ESPN right now just said Pacman reminds him of Terrell Buckley, makes big plays, but is too inconsistent to ever be a shutdown CB.

 

[BigDavis75]

FYI the guy on PFW doing the chat on ESPN right now just said Pacman reminds him of Terrell Buckley, makes big plays, but is too inconsistent to ever be a shutdown CB.

Phil Buchanon is another guy like that.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

u do have a short memory...there is nothing in the game tapes thats shows rolle doesn't have the body to play CB....he had been beaten but so has pacman (more so infact) and even your beloved champ bailey...

i agree that later on in his career a move to safety is a possible one but this is the same guy who went on the island against every player he faced at UM. he shut down Fitz and Boldin when both were at the top of their collegiate games and he didn't even get thrown at his senior year leading to his low stats.

On a radio show i listen to out here, Chad Johnson was working out in Miami and being Chad, he challenged rolle to a square off. Rolle later said he had just worked out for two hours but couldn't pass up the opportunity. Quote on Quote Chad Johnson after the match-up. "dude is going to be an elite cornerback in this league. the cardinals got themselves a player" Everyone wants to say Antrell doesn't have the body to be a NFL corner but its just plain wrong. He went up against the best players in practice and in games. Larry Coker said it was "a joke" when asked before the draft if Rolle had the swivel in his hips to play corner in the NFL.

The problem is he was not properly utilized at first. He is a bigger, more physical, and bigger playmaker than a very successfull corner in Tampa Bay with a similar body type. The difference: well besides experience, Ronde Barber plays in a scheme (Cover 2) that maximizes his bump and run and physicallity M.O. and allows him to roam and make plays.

You are so off base with this thread its ridiculous. Rolle is the one player in this draft i was not worried about (actually him and Caddillac) and at the end of next season you will realize how dumb it really sounds. Pacman Jones???? Lil' John with a bigger attitude. F--K that guy......Boldin had a bad game and thats all...no need to overreact

If you watched Rolle in college you will know that he played on the LOS more often than not and was utilized more as a SS than a cb in a lot of situations. Rolle doesnt have the speed or the body to be an elite CB, the facts are justt he facts, I like him. I think he will be a good player in the NFL but dont fool yourself, he wont be moved to saftey "later on in his career". it will be sooner than that.

As physical as Rolle is, you have to understand just how physical Pacman is too. No he doesnt have the size but he is a fierce tackler who loves to come up and play the run. He lead WVU in tackles his last year there.

It is not overreacting, when he shuts down, what most on this baord consider a top 10 wr in the NFL. call it what you want but he was barely thrown too and Pacman forced an offensive PI call on Anquan he was so frustrated.

We can agree to disagree but I am not bashing Rolle, just think for pure cover corner skills, he is no compariosn to Pacman and what Pacman WILL be!

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

FYI the guy on PFW doing the chat on ESPN right now just said Pacman reminds him of Terrell Buckley, makes big plays, but is too inconsistent to ever be a shutdown CB.

I dont think that is fair. He is a big play guy, but he even admitted himself he needs to rely more on technique and less on "closing speed". That comes with coaching.

He has a very high ceiling. Give him a year to adjust and get some coaching in and he will be a stud at cb who the Titans will allow to sit out on an island all by himself. Bet the Cards dont do that with Rolle.

 

[CardinalChris]

If you watched Rolle in college you will know that he played on the LOS more often than not and was utilized more as a SS than a cb in a lot of situations. Rolle doesnt have the speed or the body to be an elite CB, the facts are justt he facts, I like him. I think he will be a good player in the NFL but dont fool yourself, he wont be moved to saftey "later on in his career". it will be sooner than that.

As physical as Rolle is, you have to understand just how physical Pacman is too. No he doesnt have the size but he is a fierce tackler who loves to come up and play the run. He lead WVU in tackles his last year there.

It is not overreacting, when he shuts down, what most on this baord consider a top 10 wr in the NFL. call it what you want but he was barely thrown too and Pacman forced an offensive PI call on Anquan he was so frustrated.

We can agree to disagree but I am not bashing Rolle, just think for pure cover corner skills, he is no compariosn to Pacman and what Pacman WILL be!

How is your opinion of what size a corner should be considered "fact" Most personel men look for 6' 205 over 5'10 185 in a corner.

Being a good tackler doesn't mean you are a physical corner either.

Now, I like Pacman a lot. I feel a team needs a combination of quickness/speed and size at the corner. Would I kick him off of my team? I think it boils down to what you want in your corner.

 

[CardinalChris]

I dont think that is fair. He is a big play guy, but he even admitted himself he needs to rely more on technique and less on "closing speed". That comes with coaching.

He has a very high ceiling. Give him a year to adjust and get some coaching in and he will be a stud at cb who the Titans will allow to sit out on an island all by himself. Bet the Cards dont do that with Rolle.

Plus that's every rookie ever to play the game. Incosistancy happens in rookie forms. It is too early to label him as "inconsistant"

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

How is your opinion of what size a corner should be considered "fact" Most personel men look for 6' 205 over 5'10 185 in a corner.

Being a good tackler doesn't mean you are a physical corner either.

Now, I like Pacman a lot. I feel a team needs a combination of quickness/speed and size at the corner. Would I kick him off of my team? I think it boils down to what you want in your corner.

Well with the recent emphisis limiting CB's ability to play physical, most NFL teams are opting (as shown in this past years draft witht he amount of small school no name CB's with speed taken) for quicker "speed" cb's....big physical CB's lost their charm this past year.....not saying I completly agree with that, just that those are the facts from last years draft.

 

[BigDavis75]

Well with the recent emphisis limiting CB's ability to play physical, most NFL teams are opting (as shown in this past years draft witht he amount of small school no name CB's with speed taken) for quicker "speed" cb's....big physical CB's lost their charm this past year.....not saying I completly agree with that, just that those are the facts from last years draft.

Nope:

Ken Lucas- 6/205
Henry- 6'1/205
Ty Law- 5'11/200
Winfield (2 seasons ago, first year of heavy implementation of illegal contact)- 5'9/180
Champ Bailey (Same as Winfield)- 6/195
Gary Baxter- 6'2/215
Rolle- 8 overall pick
Marlin Jackson- 30 overall pick

 

[Chainthroer]

We couldn't have picked Pacman. He was off the board at #6 to the Titans. Cards were happy to get Rolle. Rolle was slow in his last game, probably because of the injury. Whether at CB or Safety, we should be in good shape come next year whatever position he plays.

 

[Dback Jon]

How is he a total baffon? Because he got int rouble witht he law? I dont think you know much about him. This was the first time he has ever been in trouble at while at WVU was one of there defensive captains and team leaders. Dude is all heart and plays 100% on all downs.

You can lump him into the "thug" category if you want but you might try taking a look at his background before you cast such expersions.

Uh - Living in Nashville has given me plenty of time to look into his background - talk radio, especially after everyone of his off-field incidents has delved deeply into his background.

Titans mini-camp - Police had to escort him out of his hotel room because he refused to leave at checkout time. Drugs were found in the room, one of his posse claimed they were his.

Rented out a bar to party with his posse after a Beyonce concert. More drugs, was asked to leave by owner (6-6 bodyguard for Steve McNair). Attacked owner and owner's brother, never paid tab, in court now over that.

This is small sampler. His quotes about fans, teammates, etc that I hear/see make me very glad he was gone before we drafted. I don't know one Titan fan that likes him.

So, yes, I do know of what I speak - probably more than anyone else here.

 

[joeshmo]

October 26
Pacman not quite done with law… A West Virginia judge has added 90 days to Tennessee CB Pacman Jones' probation for violating terms related to a 2002 incident. Jones, the 6th player selected at the 2005 draft, reportedly did not make consistent contact with his probation officer. Jones' probation was scheduled to end on Thursday. Jones had been sentenced to a year in jail following a bar fight while he was a student at West Virginia, but the sentence was suspended and he was placed on two years' probation.

http://www.gbnreport.com/

 

[CardinalChris]

Well with the recent emphisis limiting CB's ability to play physical, most NFL teams are opting (as shown in this past years draft witht he amount of small school no name CB's with speed taken) for quicker "speed" cb's....big physical CB's lost their charm this past year.....not saying I completly agree with that, just that those are the facts from last years draft.

Don't equate "didn't draft" with "don't prefer". Remember, many teams draft nickel backs with a greater emphasis on speed and quickness. All things equal, GMs would take a bigger guy with the same skill set. The problem is those guys are VERY RARE.

 

[LVCARDFREAK]

Don't equate "didn't draft" with "don't prefer". Remember, many teams draft nickel backs with a greater emphasis on speed and quickness. All things equal, GMs would take a bigger guy with the same skill set. The problem is those guys are VERY RARE.

A lot of good cb's were passed up in this 05' draft b/c GM's went after quicker speedier cb's. Of course if all things are equal you would take the guy with size and speed, thats a no brainer, but what we saw in this past years draft was a tendency for GM's to go with speed versus size even though the size players were more highly "touted"

 

[Ollie]

He had a 32 yard return (which by the way is longer than any returnt he Cards hasve had all year) and avergaed 13.2 per punt return...of course that pails in comparison to Swintons 2.5 avg. and longets of 5 yards!.

Are you speaking of Pacman Jones or Brandon Jones ?

Cause Pacman returned 6 punts (including a muffed one) with an average of 6.3 and sucked so bad (well, I concur that's still better than Swinton...) that Brandon Jones replaced him to return punts, making the 32 yard return before injuring himself on the Dansby sack/FF/recovery play.

 

[Harry]

Rolle was by far the better choice. If not for the injury, he would be rated near the top of the rookie corners, which is more than Jones would be. Jones did play his best game, but it was the pressure on McCown that saved him, not his talent.

 

[joeshmo]

He had a 32 yard return (which by the way is longer than any returnt he Cards hasve had all year) and avergaed 13.2 per punt return...of course that pails in comparison to Swintons 2.5 avg. and longets of 5 yards!.

That was Brandon Jones who had the 32 yard return and 13.7 yard average on 3 punts.

Pacman had 6 returns of 5,8,3(muffed catch),19, -1 yards and 1 fair catch.

 

[joeshmo]

A lot of good cb's were passed up in this 05' draft b/c GM's went after quicker speedier cb's. Of course if all things are equal you would take the guy with size and speed, thats a no brainer, but what we saw in this past years draft was a tendency for GM's to go with speed versus size even though the size players were more highly "touted"

Like who?

Fabian Washington went ahead of Marlin Jackson, but Oakland always picks speed over anything else. Which is also why they went for such a huge reach on Stanford Routt the next CB taken becuase he had a ton of speed, but he was also 6 feet tall. The next CB taken was 6 feet tall, Corey Webster, then Ronald Bartell 6-1, then the speed gusy started to be taken off the board after most of the bigger ones were gone.

I know you were talking about just last year but since 2000 these are the averages/highs/and lows for the Cb's taken in the 1st round.

19 CB's selected
5-11 1/2 feet tall average
195 lbs average
4.45 40 time average
6-2 1/2 tallest selected
210 lbs heavest selected
4.32 fastest selest
5-9 shortest selected
180 lighest selected
4.60 slowest selected

 

[BigDavis75]

Like who?

Fabian Washington went ahead of Marlin Jackson, but Oakland always picks speed over anything else. Which is also why they went for such a huge reach on Stanford Routt the next CB taken becuase he had a ton of speed, but he was also 6 feet tall. The next CB taken was 6 feet tall, Corey Webster, then Ronald Bartell 6-1, then the speed gusy started to be taken off the board after most of the bigger ones were gone.

I know you were talking about just last year but since 2000 these are the averages/highs/and lows for the Cb's taken in the 1st round.

19 CB's selected
5-11 1/2 feet tall average
195 lbs average
4.45 40 time average
6-2 1/2 tallest selected
210 lbs heavest selected
4.32 fastest selest
5-9 shortest selected
180 lighest selected
4.60 slowest selected

Williams and Hayden (I'm not certain on their size) went before McFadden, who really appears to be a stud. Also, where did Justin Miller go. A more suitable statement would have been less-proven cornerbacks were selected based on speed.

 

[joeshmo]

Williams and Hayden (I'm not certain on their size) went before McFadden, who really appears to be a stud. Also, where did Justin Miller go. A more suitable statement would have been less-proven cornerbacks were selected based on speed.

All 3 of the CB's mentioned were taken before McFadden. But Miller and Hayden are only 1 inch shorter the McFadden but both weght 10 more lbs. So the size difference isnt much to talk about. so yes in that case a team will go for speed, if the sizes are similar. So Williams in your scenerio is the only one who was taken purely on his speed.

 

[BigDavis75]

All 3 of the CB's mentioned were taken before McFadden. But Miller and Hayden are only 1 inch shorter the McFadden but both weght 10 more lbs. So the size difference isnt much to talk about. so yes in that case a team will go for speed, if the sizes are similar. So Williams in your scenerio is the only one who was taken purely on his speed.

Nevermind then, I didn't know where to find the stuff. What pick did Jusatin Miller go?

 

[joeshmo]

Nevermind then, I didn't know where to find the stuff. What pick did Jusatin Miller go?

Dont feel like looking for the exact # but it was at the end of the 2nd round.

 

[Russ Smith]

FYI the Raiders were lighting up Pacman today when he got hurt.

 

[CardinalChris]

FYI the Raiders were lighting up Pacman today when he got hurt.

He looked bad, but the 7th rounder who returned the INT was mildly impressive for TEN