Week 7 of the Arizona Cardinals off season. 02/19/24-02/25/24

[Mulli]

The heart of good defense is the plays you don't make.

--Budda Baker, Pro Bowl Safety

He is exactly the player who I thought of when you blasted K White. Budda Baker is the Justin Fields of safeties.

 

[Ronin]

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[Chopper0080]

I believe Monti considers making a mistake in Free Agency is costly especially on an overpay.

Draft picks are low cost mistakes if you don’t hit.

Sure but...how are you adding talent then?

FA is risky but you are signing established NFL players. The risk is that you have to pay these players more. The draft obviously comes with a low financial risk, but it is a crap shoot if these guys will work out.

and the reality is, two or three more offseasons like the last one, and Monti is probably fired. You can't gut your roster and then slow play the building of it. In the NFL you don't have the time to do that.

 

[oaken1]

Sure but...how are you adding talent then?

FA is risky but you are signing established NFL players. The risk is that you have to pay these players more. The draft obviously comes with a low financial risk, but it is a crap shoot if these guys will work out.

and the reality is, two or three more offseasons like the last one, and Monti is probably fired. You can't gut your roster and then play the building of it. In the NFL you don't have the time to do that.

So ....since when have the Arizona Cardinals shown that they do things like "The NFL" does them?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Sure but...how are you adding talent then?

FA is risky but you are signing established NFL players. The risk is that you have to pay these players more. The draft obviously comes with a low financial risk, but it is a crap shoot if these guys will work out.

and the reality is, two or three more offseasons like the last one, and Monti is probably fired. You can't gut your roster and then slow play the building of it. In the NFL you don't have the time to do that.

You probably do if you’re the GM of the Cardinals.

 

[Stout]

The same people who think we can't attract good FAs now seem to think we could last year with a broken QB.

Marry these two competing ideas for me.

Or is the idea that we won't because Monti has some ideological opposition to good players?

El wrongo, and even more el wrongo.

The idea is that Monti will be conservative in FA because his philosophy seems to rely more heavily on the draft than some like. Good long-term strategy, but I feel we need to be aggressive in FA this season. I don't think Monti goes aggressive in FA.

 

[Stout]

Sure but...how are you adding talent then?

FA is risky but you are signing established NFL players. The risk is that you have to pay these players more. The draft obviously comes with a low financial risk, but it is a crap shoot if these guys will work out.

and the reality is, two or three more offseasons like the last one, and Monti is probably fired. You can't gut your roster and then slow play the building of it. In the NFL you don't have the time to do that.

Preach.

 

[RON_IN_OC]

ya’ll’ll is a new one for me

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[kerouac9]

and the reality is, two or three more offseasons like the last one, and Monti is probably fired. You can't gut your roster and then slow play the building of it. In the NFL you don't have the time to do that

It depends on the vision Monti is selling to Michael. Roll over the top draft pick again next year, and you’re basically running a GM Ponzi scheme. Always one draft away from greatness, while never finishing more the 2 games above or below .500z

 

[Stout]

It depends on the vision Monti is selling to Michael. Roll over the top draft pick again next year, and you’re basically running a GM Ponzi scheme. Always one draft away from greatness, while never finishing more the 2 games above or below .500z

Gotta get them hauls.

 

[Mulli]

It depends on the vision Monti is selling to Michael. Roll over the top draft pick again next year, and you’re basically running a GM Ponzi scheme. Always one draft away from greatness, while never finishing more the 2 games above or below .500z

He already finished well below .500.

 

[BritCard]

Who do you think these people are, because there's nothing in the post you quoted that says this. It sure sounds like Monti is the one saying he's going to be conservative in free agency and look for playmakers exclusively through the draft.

Well, we didn't get any playmakers in last year's draft; it sounds like we're not going to bid on established playmakers in free agency. That's the argument.

I'm willing to wait and see, but there were a lot of people being like "Well we'll just sign Brian Burns in free agency and y'all'll shut up" in the past few weeks and months and it doesn't sound like that's going to happen.

Not in this post, but people have been suggesting that FA's won't be keen to join a 4-13 team, or the Cardinals in general for months (and really years).

WHere do you get "It doesn't sound like that's going to happen" from? Monti said that the team will be active in Free Agency. He said (in not so many words) you have to be careful in FA in overpaying for mediocre talent, that's a sentiment every GM shares. I'm not sure where this idea that we won't try to sign good FA's comes from.

 

[BritCard]

Sure but...how are you adding talent then?

FA is risky but you are signing established NFL players. The risk is that you have to pay these players more. The draft obviously comes with a low financial risk, but it is a crap shoot if these guys will work out.

and the reality is, two or three more offseasons like the last one, and Monti is probably fired. You can't gut your roster and then slow play the building of it. In the NFL you don't have the time to do that.

FA is as much of a crap shoot. Half the big name moves in FA are busts for their new teams.

2022 class.

Von Miller was the biggest payday. In 2 years he has 11 starts and 8 sacks. Last year he played in 12 games but didn't start one and played only 258 snaps in those 12 games.

Kirk was next. I think you can argue his deal is break even.

Chandler Jones was next. Huge bust, even when he played.

JC Jackson was the 4th highest paid. Another huge bust.

Scherff was 5th highest. Again, fair to say he worked out.

6th highest was Allen Robinson, another massive bust.

7th was Terron Armstead. Good player, missed 11 games the last 2 years.

Let's look at 2023.

Excluding Carr (although I think you can call his £38m per year deal bust worthy)

2nd Mike McGlinchey was a huge bust.

3rd Javon Hargrave. He had 7 sacks, but run defense was poor. Would you call $21m a year good value? Let's call it a wash.

4th Jawaan Taylor. Huge bust. 5 sacks allowed. 20 (!) penalties. 52 PFF grade.

5th Jimmy G. Huge bust. Didn't last a season.

6th Tremaine Edmunds. Awful deal. Bust. 56 PFF grade.

7th Orlando Brown Jr. Despite being a reasonable deal at $16m per he gave up 7 sacks and had a meh PFF grade of 66. But I'll be generous and call it a wash.


Looking at the big money deals it's hard to see a good deal, and there are far more busts than break evens.

Which would suggest Monti is right to be cautious. FA is no sure thing.

 

[Mulli]

Success has many fathers, but failure is all on Kyzir White

— Abraham Lincoln

Full disclosure I stole this from a DM from K9

 

[Mulli]

FA is as much of a crap shoot. Half the big name moves in FA are busts for their new teams.

2022 class.

Von Miller was the biggest payday. In 2 years he has 11 starts and 8 sacks. Last year he played in 12 games but didn't start one and played only 258 snaps in those 12 games.

Kirk was next. I think you can argue his deal is break even.

Chandler Jones was next. Huge bust, even when he played.

JC Jackson was the 4th highest paid. Another huge bust.

Scherff was 5th highest. Again, fair to say he worked out.

6th highest was Allen Robinson, another massive bust.

7th was Terron Armstead. Good player, missed 11 games the last 2 years.

Let's look at 2023.

Excluding Carr (although I think you can call his £38m per year deal bust worthy)

2nd Mike McGlinchey was a huge bust.

3rd Javon Hargrave. He had 7 sacks, but run defense was poor. Would you call $21m a year good value? Let's call it a wash.

4th Jawaan Taylor. Huge bust. 5 sacks allowed. 20 (!) penalties. 52 PFF grade.

5th Jimmy G. Huge bust. Didn't last a season.

6th Tremaine Edmunds. Awful deal. Bust. 56 PFF grade.

7th Orlando Brown Jr. Despite being a reasonable deal at $16m per he gave up 7 sacks and had a meh PFF grade of 66. But I'll be generous and call it a wash.


Looking at the big money deals it's hard to see a good deal, and there are far more busts than break evens.

Which would suggest Monti is right to be cautious. FA is no sure thing.

Excellent post. Thank you.

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not sure where this idea that we won't try to sign good FA's comes from.

you trying to foist it on others, it seems like.

This team isn’t going to improve much by adding more Josh Woodses to the roster. You attacking posters assuming criticism that hasn’t been made yet of actions that haven’t been taken is wild.

 

[Chopper0080]

FA is as much of a crap shoot. Half the big name moves in FA are busts for their new teams.

2022 class.

Von Miller was the biggest payday. In 2 years he has 11 starts and 8 sacks. Last year he played in 12 games but didn't start one and played only 258 snaps in those 12 games.

Kirk was next. I think you can argue his deal is break even.

Chandler Jones was next. Huge bust, even when he played.

JC Jackson was the 4th highest paid. Another huge bust.

Scherff was 5th highest. Again, fair to say he worked out.

6th highest was Allen Robinson, another massive bust.

7th was Terron Armstead. Good player, missed 11 games the last 2 years.

Let's look at 2023.

Excluding Carr (although I think you can call his £38m per year deal bust worthy)

2nd Mike McGlinchey was a huge bust.

3rd Javon Hargrave. He had 7 sacks, but run defense was poor. Would you call $21m a year good value? Let's call it a wash.

4th Jawaan Taylor. Huge bust. 5 sacks allowed. 20 (!) penalties. 52 PFF grade.

5th Jimmy G. Huge bust. Didn't last a season.

6th Tremaine Edmunds. Awful deal. Bust. 56 PFF grade.

7th Orlando Brown Jr. Despite being a reasonable deal at $16m per he gave up 7 sacks and had a meh PFF grade of 66. But I'll be generous and call it a wash.


Looking at the big money deals it's hard to see a good deal, and there are far more busts than break evens.

Which would suggest Monti is right to be cautious. FA is no sure thing.

This is a fallacy. It presents a world where there are only top end FA signings and bottom end FA signings. In reality, there is a whole group of players in between.

Let's look at 2022.

James Conner - 3yrs, 21 mil. Good signing.
Cordarelle Paterson - 2yrs, 10.5 mil, Good signing.
Marcus Williams - 5yrs, 70 mil. Good signing.
Jordan Phillips - 1yr, 5mil. good signing.
ted Karras - 3ys, 18mil. good signing.
Alex Cappa - 4yrs, 40 mil. good signing.
BJ Hill - 3ys, 30 mil. Good signing.
Malik hooker - 2yrs, 8 mil. good signing.
Alex Anzalone - 1yrs, 2.25 mil. Good.
DeVondre Campbell - 5yrs, 50 mil. Good.
Maliek Collins - 2yrs, 17 mil. Good.
Zay Jones - 3rs, 21 mil. good.
Foye Oluokun - 3ys, 45 mil. good.
Justin Reid. good
Greald Everett. Good.
Brian Allen. good.
Notebloom. good.
Mostert. Good.
Conner Williams. Good.
harrison Phillips. good.
Jordan Hicks. good.

That is just going through Arizona to Minnesota. There are so many options to add talent, even if it isn't one of the 8 largest contracts. The risk is only what you make it.

 

[Krangodnzr]

This is a fallacy. It presents a world where there are only top end FA signings and bottom end FA signings. In reality, there is a whole group of players in between.

Let's look at 2022.

James Conner - 3yrs, 21 mil. Good signing.
Cordarelle Paterson - 2yrs, 10.5 mil, Good signing.
Marcus Williams - 5yrs, 70 mil. Good signing.
Jordan Phillips - 1yr, 5mil. good signing.
ted Karras - 3ys, 18mil. good signing.
Alex Cappa - 4yrs, 40 mil. good signing.
BJ Hill - 3ys, 30 mil. Good signing.
Malik hooker - 2yrs, 8 mil. good signing.
Alex Anzalone - 1yrs, 2.25 mil. Good.
DeVondre Campbell - 5yrs, 50 mil. Good.
Maliek Collins - 2yrs, 17 mil. Good.
Zay Jones - 3rs, 21 mil. good.
Foye Oluokun - 3ys, 45 mil. good.
Justin Reid. good
Greald Everett. Good.
Brian Allen. good.
Notebloom. good.
Mostert. Good.
Conner Williams. Good.
harrison Phillips. good.
Jordan Hicks. good.

That is just going through Arizona to Minnesota. There are so many options to add talent, even if it isn't one of the 8 largest contracts. The risk is only what you make it.

If I were a GM, I'd be looking for the Conner type signings all day.

What I mean is productive veterans who aren't necessarily stars. I'd take swings at stars only if I was close to a Super Bowl or if they were young.

 

[Ronin]

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[Ronin]

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[kerouac9]

If I were a GM, I'd be looking for the Conner type signings all day.

What I mean is productive veterans who aren't necessarily stars. I'd take swings at stars only if I was close to a Super Bowl or if they were young.

Second contracts for midlevel players are where you make your bones in free agency. But it only works out if you have a foundation for success already in place. If you're going to aim for doubles in the draft with right tackles you're going to have to get playmakers somewhere.

 

[Chopper0080]

I don't believe anyone would complain if the Cardinals had a FA class of

Zack Moss
Marquise Brown.
Donovan Peoples Jones
Noah Fant
Dalton Risner
Yosuoh Nijman
Justin Jones
Sebastian Joseph-Day
Dj Wonnum
Dorance Armstrong
Cody Barton
Jeff Okudah
Chidobe Awuzie

No one would likely love it, but that is about the amount of actual NFL players the Cardinals need on their roster right now. It would bolster the roster, show that Monti wants to attack the mid range, mid length FA market, and then would put the onus on him to add premier talent in the draft.

 

[Chopper0080]

Second contracts for midlevel players are where you make your bones in free agency. But it only works out if you have a foundation for success already in place. If you're going to aim for doubles in the draft with right tackles you're going to have to get playmakers somewhere.

Agree. I would much rather a doubles mentality in FA vs a doubles mentality in the draft, but you aren't going to win games with doubles everywhere.

 

[Ronin]

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[Krangodnzr]

I don't believe anyone would complain if the Cardinals had a FA class of

Zack Moss
Marquise Brown.
Donovan Peoples Jones
Noah Fant
Dalton Risner
Yosuoh Nijman
Justin Jones
Sebastian Joseph-Day
Dj Wonnum
Dorance Armstrong
Cody Barton
Jeff Okudah
Chidobe Awuzie

No one would likely love it, but that is about the amount of actual NFL players the Cardinals need on their roster right now. It would bolster the roster, show that Monti wants to attack the mid range, mid length FA market, and then would put the onus on him to add premier talent in the draft.

This is a good list and a realistic one, though I think we sign a few scrubs too LOL