Week 7 Snap Counts and Thoughts

[CardNots]

underrated cause of offensive sluggishness

still not sure why they havent tried deeper shots to McBride or Higgins out of play action in those sets

I’m thinking a lack of time Kyler has. Longer developing plays aren’t available due to the state of our OL.

Things could improve but it’s more likely the offensive line run blocks well and we’ll continue running for the foreseeable future.

 

[Stout]

He didn't get toasted. They were playing zone and ST5 passed him off to Jalen Thompson as he had a man underneath.

He abandoned that man when he saw the QB target the deep guy. He actually played that rep perfectly, it was Jalens coverage that was trash.

I have no idea what Jalen is doing here. He has nobody under him and no reason to hesitate in picking up the receiver. He's way to slow to get across from the left hash when it's clear all the threat is on the right. Thomas saved his ass.

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Gotcha. Misremembered who had the responsibility on that play. He made up for Jalen's toasting. Thanks for the correction

 

[outcent13]

He didn't get toasted. They were playing zone and ST5 passed him off to Jalen Thompson as he had a man underneath.

He abandoned that man when he saw the QB target the deep guy. He actually played that rep perfectly, it was Jalens coverage that was trash.

I have no idea what Jalen is doing here. He has nobody under him and no reason to hesitate in picking up the receiver. He's way to slow to get across from the left hash when it's clear all the threat is on the right. Thomas saved his ass.

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I agree with this assessment for the most part.BTW thank you for the video reference. I do think it’s on Thomas to get a deeper drop if he knows the LB and S are covering the underneath. Overall a pretty damn good effort and a good find from what I’ve seen over the last year and a half. CBs have a big learning curve from college to pro ball and I can see the secondary being really good over the next few years .

 

[JohnnyCakes]

He didn't get toasted. They were playing zone and ST5 passed him off to Jalen Thompson as he had a man underneath.

He abandoned that man when he saw the QB target the deep guy. He actually played that rep perfectly, it was Jalens coverage that was trash.

I have no idea what Jalen is doing here. He has nobody under him and no reason to hesitate in picking up the receiver. He's way to slow to get across from the left hash when it's clear all the threat is on the right. Thomas saved his ass.

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nice breakdown, thanks.

Not sure what JT was thinking here

 

[Chopper0080]

I’m thinking a lack of time Kyler has. Longer developing plays aren’t available due to the state of our OL.

Things could improve but it’s more likely the offensive line run blocks well and we’ll continue running for the foreseeable future.

I think there is plenty of meat on the bone offensively. And again, it isn't just on one coach or player.

 

[BritCard]

How ths defense kept then to 65 yards running (or whatever it was) with these guys on the D line is a miracle.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

How ths defense kept then to 65 yards running (or whatever it was) with these guys on the D line is a miracle.

good scheme/gameplan

Gotta give Rallis credit

 

[football karma]

I’m thinking a lack of time Kyler has. Longer developing plays aren’t available due to the state of our OL.

Things could improve but it’s more likely the offensive line run blocks well and we’ll continue running for the foreseeable future.

maybe

i have seen plenty of play action out of that set, and it has Kyler taking a deeper drop and looking downfield -- but he then moves on to another option. My opinion is that its more a function of the target being covered rather than pressure

 

[football karma]

I think there is plenty of meat on the bone offensively. And again, it isn't just on one coach or player.

100% this. single factor problems tend to get solved easily. Offense has a few medium sized issues (in no particular order)

1. The offense is conservative philosophically -- although maybe a function of trying to protect a bad defense too.
2. Their best grouping is 3 TEs, which limits down the field plays
3. Talent / experience deficit at WR. MHJ is a rook. Wilson in his 2nd year. Dortch is depth. In a better situation, you would have quality, vet WR in that mix to knock each of the above down one slot.
4. Kyler is too risk averse, maybe at Petzing/ Gannons direction. Maybe also a function of protecting the D.

 

[Russ Smith]

There is more than enough WR talent on this team. I don't know what people think WR groups look like but what we have is average at worse.

Our receivers aren't on fire because they can't throw the ball to themselves.

They can, but they drop it

 

[Russ Smith]

There is more than enough WR talent on this team. I don't know what people think WR groups look like but what we have is average at worse.

Our receivers aren't on fire because they can't throw the ball to themselves.

Just not being real. Dortch has been cut repeatedly by NFL teams, Zay Jones is past his prime that wasn't really a prime. Wilson has talent as does Marv, but the reality is we have 1 WR on the roster who's above a #3 WR, and he's the guy with the most drops

 

[Russ Smith]

Less talent that Elijah Higgins and Tip Reiman? C'mon, man.

Because you can run the ball with them on the field and force the defense to play their run package, then the hope is your WR 1 on 1 wins.

 

[BritCard]

Just not being real. Dortch has been cut repeatedly by NFL teams, Zay Jones is past his prime that wasn't really a prime. Wilson has talent as does Marv, but the reality is we have 1 WR on the roster who's above a #3 WR, and he's the guy with the most drops

No, this isn't being real. Mike and Marv have all the talent to get very good WR1 and WR2's. This isn't just my opinion, I've seen several NFL insiders praise Mike's ability and Marv's is obvious from his college film. He didn't go #4 for nothing.

And Dortch and Zay Jones are good 3's. Have a look around the league at what most other teams have at #3 and in my opinion we have better.

The Vikings for example have Jalen Nailor and Brandon Powell and have had one of the best passing offenses in the league with Sam Darnold.

But most importantly they are open all the time when you watch the tape.

 

[Russ Smith]

No, this isn't being real. Mike and Marv have all the talent to get very good WR1 and WR2's. This isn't just my opinion, I've seen several NFL insiders praise Mike's ability and Marv's is obvious from his college film. He didn't go #4 for nothing.

And Dortch and Zay Jones are good 3's. Have a look around the league at what most other teams have at #3 and in my opinion we have better.

The Vikings for example have Jalen Nailor and Brandon Powell and have had one of the best passing offenses in the league with Sam Darnold.

But most importantly they are open all the time when you watch the tape.

I can keep saying this, you're talking about POTENTIAL, I'm talking about what they are RIGHT NOW. I like Wilson was thrilled we picked him, saw him in college quite a bit. But RIGHT NOW, he's a #3 wr playing #2. Marv has the talent to be great but right now he's a #2 WR playing #1.

Dortch went undrafted, for his size he's not that fast he ran a 4.59 40. Carolina had him in camp and cut him, they had signed him off the Jets practice squad, Carolina played him a few games and then cut him. The rams signed him and cut him 6 months later. The bucs worked him out, the Falcons signed him and later waived him, and then we got him, and cut him too but kept him on the PS. I like Dortch, I always pull for the underdog, but he's a #4 Wr in a normal NFL situation he's playing 3rd right now.

Zay is in his 9th season, he's had more than 50 catches twice, he's always been a 3rd for 4th guy.

We have a very weak WR room right now. I think Marv and Wilson WILL both be very good players, I know Kyler loves Wilson, but right now, they're just not there

 

[vince56]

Benson got 4 snaps.

If we’re a draft and develop team, we need to both draft and develop. 4 snaps is comical. Get him involved.

 

[Garthshort]

Marv has the protential to be a #1 WR, even if he's not there yet. But, he'll only improve with more targets, which is easier said than done. Bottom line, we are playing better when we run the ball more and play with three TE's, and there's the rub.

Hopefully, since we're paying them the big bucks, Drew and JG will figure things out. And, unfortunately, I can't help them.

 

[Chopper0080]

If we’re a draft and develop team, we need to both draft and develop. 4 snaps is comical. Get him involved.

The team needs to win so I don't really agree with this. With the way the Cardinals are riding Conner, it is likely Benson will get snaps when Conner misses a game or two.

 

[BritCard]

I can keep saying this, you're talking about POTENTIAL, I'm talking about what they are RIGHT NOW. I like Wilson was thrilled we picked him, saw him in college quite a bit. But RIGHT NOW, he's a #3 wr playing #2. Marv has the talent to be great but right now he's a #2 WR playing #1.

Dortch went undrafted, for his size he's not that fast he ran a 4.59 40. Carolina had him in camp and cut him, they had signed him off the Jets practice squad, Carolina played him a few games and then cut him. The rams signed him and cut him 6 months later. The bucs worked him out, the Falcons signed him and later waived him, and then we got him, and cut him too but kept him on the PS. I like Dortch, I always pull for the underdog, but he's a #4 Wr in a normal NFL situation he's playing 3rd right now.

Zay is in his 9th season, he's had more than 50 catches twice, he's always been a 3rd for 4th guy.

We have a very weak WR room right now. I think Marv and Wilson WILL both be very good players, I know Kyler loves Wilson, but right now, they're just not there

I'm talking about what they are right now. It's only unrealised potential because they have a QB that can't throw on time, can't go through progressions and runs or dumps it off if his 1st read is covered.

Both of them are leaving 50/60 unrealised yards on the field every week. That happens, there's 500 yards of passing to be had in any game if a QB hits everything perfectly and even the best will average sub 300. Kyler is averaging 190. The only QB's with less are Fields, Nix, Dalton, Watson, AR, Levis, Brissett, O'Connell and Young.

Not great company to be leading.

You drop MHJ and Mike in with Stafford, Mayfield, Darnold, Geno Smith, Love, Lamar, Mahomes, Allen, Stroud etc and I guarantee both have at least 50% more yards than they have right now.

 

[Russ Smith]

I'm talking about what they are right now. It's only unrealised potential because they have a QB that can't throw on time, can't go through progressions and runs or dumps it off if his 1st read is covered.

Both of them are leaving 50/60 unrealised yards on the field every week. That happens, there's 500 yards of passing to be had in any game if a QB hits everything perfectly and even the best will average sub 300. Kyler is averaging 190. The only QB's with less are Fields, Nix, Dalton, Watson, AR, Levis, Brissett, O'Connell and Young.

Not great company to be leading.

You drop MHJ and Mike in with Stafford, Mayfield, Darnold, Geno Smith, Love, Lamar, Mahomes, Allen, Stroud etc and I guarantee both have at least 50% more yards than they have right now.

Not in our offense they wouldn't.

You also have to define open, that video showed the play from the last game where Marv broke free as if hey he's wide open, Kyler missed him. He didn't miss him, he was surrounded by 3 pass rushers and managed to get out, go left and hit McBride turning a sack into a gain. Are there plays he misses Wr's absolutely.


I complain about this every week we do so many short drop throws the ball has to come out quickly, that's a big reason why Kyler goes to the first read or dumpoff so often, he has to it's a short drop. It's also part of why he has so many passes batted down IMO, at his size constantly throwing that close to the LOS is a problem for him.

We've played 7 games, he's been sacked 11 times, I think that's why, he's getting the ball out quickly.

You're not going to throw for 300 yards a game with 3 TE's on the field as much as we have, especially with one of them being Reiman who's basically an OL playing TE.

 

[BritCard]

Not in our offense they wouldn't.

You also have to define open, that video showed the play from the last game where Marv broke free as if hey he's wide open, Kyler missed him. He didn't miss him, he was surrounded by 3 pass rushers and managed to get out, go left and hit McBride turning a sack into a gain. Are there plays he misses Wr's absolutely.


I complain about this every week we do so many short drop throws the ball has to come out quickly, that's a big reason why Kyler goes to the first read or dumpoff so often, he has to it's a short drop. It's also part of why he has so many passes batted down IMO, at his size constantly throwing that close to the LOS is a problem for him.

We've played 7 games, he's been sacked 11 times, I think that's why, he's getting the ball out quickly.

You're not going to throw for 300 yards a game with 3 TE's on the field as much as we have, especially with one of them being Reiman who's basically an OL playing TE.

You say this as if the offense is holding him back, and not that the scheme has been built this way to accommodate Kyler's shortcomings.

Is it coincidence that two very different schemes that he has been in have that in common? Short drops, quick passes, 1st reads only, no motion. It seems to me this is designed for Kyler, not restricting him.

 

[Russ Smith]

You say this as if the offense is holding him back, and not that the scheme has been built this way to accommodate Kyler's shortcomings.

Is it coincidence that two very different schemes that he has been in have that in common? Short drops, quick passes, 1st reads only, no motion. It seems to me this is designed for Kyler, not restricting him.

Wait what? Kyler wasn't even our QB when we built this offense, he was out rehabbing his knee.

This is apparently how Gannon and Petzing want to play.

 

[Chopper0080]

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Here is why the Cardinals are running so many multi-TE sets. I don't love EPA, but there is a big difference in our pass game EPA in multi TE vs 11.

 

[BritCard]

Wait what? Kyler wasn't even our QB when we built this offense, he was out rehabbing his knee.

This is apparently how Gannon and Petzing want to play.

Dobbs in this offense doesn't look like Kyler in the offense. Dobbs was going through reads and playing as a traditional pocket passer. Not remotely the same.

 

[Russ Smith]

Dobbs in this offense doesn't look like Kyler in the offense. Dobbs was going through reads and playing as a traditional pocket passer. Not remotely the same.

Wait what?

Dobbs was running, he averaged less than 200 yards passing a game at 5.9 YPA 8 TD 5 picks, 8 starts.

Kyler in 8 starts had 230 yards more passing .8 more YPA, 10 TD 5 picks.

So if Kyler was just throwing to the first read, and Dobbs was going through progressions, then why did Kyler have better stats across the board? I mean it's not even debatable we were better offensively after Kyler got back.

But again they didn't design that offense because Kyler can't run another offense, they designed that offense knowing Kyler might not even play last year, when they first showed up we weren't even sure Kyler was going to play.

 

[football karma]

I can keep saying this, you're talking about POTENTIAL, I'm talking about what they are RIGHT NOW. I like Wilson was thrilled we picked him, saw him in college quite a bit. But RIGHT NOW, he's a #3 wr playing #2. Marv has the talent to be great but right now he's a #2 WR playing #1.

i think this is correct

i think about Jamar Chase's rookie year -- but he joined Tyler Boyd and Tee Higgins -- two in their prime WRs

Justin Jefferson joined Adam Thielen, a vet in his prime WR

I think Marv has lots to work on, but stepping in as the clear #1 WR is hard for a rookie -- especially when #2 is 2nd year Michael Wilson.