Wendell Bryant...LOSER!

[Redheart]

I can't believe how low this is flying under the wire.

I was listening to national radio and they were saying that this four-game suspension was for a third substance-abuse violation...not the DUI.

I don't know if this true, but even if it isn't, a four-game suspension he brought on himself is just the icing on the cake and earned him the official title of BUST and the brand of LOSER.

His inglorious career:
DEFENSIVE STATS
Year G Total Tckl Ast Sacks Int Yds Avg Lg TD Pass Def
2002 14 19 11.0 8 1.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
2003 12 19 16.0 3 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
TOTAL 26 38 27.0 11 1.5 0 0 0.0 0 0 0
His Salary information:
Year Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value Position
2003 $ 300,000 $ 0 $ 800 $ 300,000 $ 1,404,400 DT
2002 $ 225,000 $ 5,522,000 $ 0 $ 5,733,765 $ 1,316,165 DT

He is scheduled to count $1.4 million on the salary cap this season and has three years left on his contract. Cutting him will not save the Cardinals much money - roughly $400,000 on the cap this season when you factor in his signing bonus.

He started his career as a Cardinal by holding out until the Thursday before the first regular season game. Then he signed a five-year, $7.5 million contract that included a $5.5 million signing bonus. Bryant, the No. 12 pick overall, was the next-to-last 2002 draft choice to come to terms.

Since then the only thing he has excelled at is disappointment.

 

[Russ Smith]

He started his career as a Cardinal by holding out until the Thursday before the first regular season game. Then he signed a five-year, $7.5 million contract that included a $5.5 million signing bonus. Bryant, the No. 12 pick overall, was the next-to-last 2002 draft choice to come to terms.

Since then the only thing he has excelled at is disappointment.

If true, about 3 failed tests, it explains a lot. The ONE thing I don't think is fair to lay on Wendell's feet is the contract.

First off you can't hold out until you have a contract, rookies are unsigned, holdouts are guys like Barry Sanders who twice refused to report to camp when he had a signed contract.

Second, it was well documented the Cards offers to Bryant were lower than the slot value, as soon as the offer came up, he signed.

If he really has failed 3 tests, by all means take him to task for that, but his reporting late was really the last example of a Cards first round pick who was treated somewhat poorly in negotiations, he wasn't being offered a "fair" contract as defined by what everyone else was getting, we didn't want to do bells and whistles so the total for his offer was much lower, we eventually caved. IN some ways Bryant and his agent HELPED the Cards because they were dragged kicking and screaming into the present state of NFL rookie contracts, which is why we were able to sign guys in recent years.

But yes I'm VERY annoyed with him for this suspension/

 

[slanidrac16]

I just want to win.

To me a real loser is like Leonard Little. How is it that piece of crap is allowed to play?
Bryant is on his last leg. I want nothing more than for him to serve his suspension and come back with a vengence. He was showing signs and a guy like Denny Green is just what this kid needs. Give this kid a chance. Maybe if Club Mac would have cracked the whip it wouldn't have gotten to this point.
Ultimately, responsibility lays at the feet of Wendell Bryant.
There seems to be a lot of speculation on what he did and how many times he did it etc.
Stand up. Take responsibility for your action. Serve the punishment and be ready to play on week 5.

 

[NickelBack]

To me a real loser is like Leonard Little. How is it that piece of crap is allowed to play?

And their are those that continue to defend Little!

 

[Brian in Mesa]

To me a real loser is like Leonard Little. How is it that piece of crap is allowed to play?

To me - guys like Bryant were simply one red light away from being Leonard Little. I'm glad he was stopped before he killed himself or someone else.

Sadly, the message of "Don't Drink and Drive" escapes many - Friday and Saturday alone in the Valley, we had nearly 800 DUI arrests, with .143 being the average BAC. Losers.

 

[bratwurst]

DUI is pretty disgusting. There really is no excuse to not get a cab or a ride some other way.

Even if it means, like in my case once, taking a bus home when I had too much to drink then having to wake up at 5am to go back into DC and move my truck that was parked on a tow away zone when rush hour starts. Better to do that then to drive home and kill someone.

 

[vince56]

Second, it was well documented the Cards offers to Bryant were lower than the slot value, as soon as the offer came up, he signed.

Russ, not to get too into minutia, but that's not how I remembered it. Maybe I'm wrong, but IIRC, the Cards wouldn't budge on the contract and he wound up signing in September or October for the same money he was offered in July.

 

[blindseyed]

First off you can't hold out until you have a contract, rookies are unsigned, holdouts are guys like Barry Sanders who twice refused to report to camp when he had a signed contract./

Hmmmm..Barry Sanders..Wendell Bryant.... rookies are unsigned by choice, whatever the reason, someone getting more money, etc...which I think is silly since ya end up paying all this money and they pull a Wendell.
Jerry Rice held out when he was with san Fran a few times too and so did a few other Hall of Famers, like Barry Sanders. But his is a unique case, he was promised a better team year after year by management, telling him they'd get people around him to win a SB and year after year, nothing... I don't agree with holdouts and was disappointed when Barry did it BUT in Sanders case I can totally understand it, he was a class player. This is the NFL, more money whenever you can get it, contract or no. More and more veterans will hold out of camp, look at Pace and Woodson this year...they pretty much skip training camp anymore. It's not fair to single out Sanders, maybe include all the veteran holdouts for the past 5 or 10 yrs..

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, not to get too into minutia, but that's not how I remembered it. Maybe I'm wrong, but IIRC, the Cards wouldn't budge on the contract and he wound up signing in September or October for the same money he was offered in July.

Maybe I'm wrong but my recollection is that Bryant wanted a "bells and whistle" deal that the Cards wouldn't do. After signing it was widely reported he'd caved, but then when details came out we found out he did in fact get bells and whistles.

Right after he signed there were reports like this
http://www.profootballtalk.com/9-1to9-15archive.htm
which suggest like you said he signed the deal he'd had on the table all along.

But since then I'm fairly certain we've found out that he does in fact have a 2 tiered signing bonus. I'm at home so I don't have my link to check but that's my recollection.

If someone knows otherwise let me know but that's how I remember it eventually we were informed of the 2 tier bonus. His agent also is the guy who forced us to deal with the insurance waiver by refusing to let Bryant play, the next year both pace and johnson were able to because we went through that with Bryant.

 

[Russ Smith]

Hmmmm..Barry Sanders..Wendell Bryant.... rookies are unsigned by choice, whatever the reason, someone getting more money, etc...which I think is silly since ya end up paying all this money and they pull a Wendell.
Jerry Rice held out when he was with san Fran a few times too and so did a few other Hall of Famers, like Barry Sanders. But his is a unique case, he was promised a better team year after year by management, telling him they'd get people around him to win a SB and year after year, nothing... I don't agree with holdouts and was disappointed when Barry did it BUT in Sanders case I can totally understand it, he was a class player. This is the NFL, more money whenever you can get it, contract or no. More and more veterans will hold out of camp, look at Pace and Woodson this year...they pretty much skip training camp anymore. It's not fair to single out Sanders, maybe include all the veteran holdouts for the past 5 or 10 yrs..

Just the first guy who came to mind who did it, I think Emmitt did it too.

My point was, and maybe it's semantics, but I don't think you can
"hold out" if you don't have a contract, I don't believe rookies can hold out they can simply be unsigned. If Quan refused to report this year because of his contract that would be a holdout in my mind. Just a point of distinction I think the media misses all too often. The Shelton rookie contract really made it an annoyance to me, consistently called a holdout.

 

[phillycard]

DUI is pretty disgusting. There really is no excuse to not get a cab or a ride some other way.

Even if it means, like in my case once, taking a bus home when I had too much to drink then having to wake up at 5am to go back into DC and move my truck that was parked on a tow away zone when rush hour starts. Better to do that then to drive home and kill someone.

brat, you are to be commended bro. As much as I like to drink, the last thing I will ever do is get into a vehicle if I'm impaired. Even if it means being inconvenienced for the night.

 

[Russ Smith]

Found it on USA today's database. Bryant's full bonus is listed in year 1 as a signing bonus, but he got an escalator and an incentive bonus in year 2. He didn't reach the escalator, but somehow reached an incentive for a whopping $800 in other bonus(makes you wonder how simple it was since he did nothing last year).

So I guess my inital comment was wrong and misleading, he got the same base deal, but he got escalators later that as far as we know weren't part of the original deal. His delay was for a 2 tiered bonus he never got.

 

[NickelBack]

Rams | Little to be Limited With Media - from www.KFFL.com
Wed, 28 Jul 2004 13:45:20 -0700

Jim Thomas, of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, reports St. Louis Rams DE Leonard Little will not be limited on the field in training camp, but will be limited for off-the-field interviews with the media. Rams head coach Mike Martz has said Little, who is facing felony charges for drunken driving, will be made available to the media once a week in camp. Martz asked that Little be asked football-related questions only. "I just think it's fair to Leonard that way," Martz said. "Otherwise, he'd just get hounded on some things. We've just got to make sure that everyone understands the guidelines."

 

[Fiasco]

To me - guys like Bryant were simply one red light away from being Leonard Little. I'm glad he was stopped before he killed himself or someone else.

Sadly, the message of "Don't Drink and Drive" escapes many - Friday and Saturday alone in the Valley, we had nearly 800 DUI arrests, with .143 being the average BAC. Losers.

Always good to see the DUI cash cow milked as often as possible. If it was really about making the road safer the state wouldn't have just reissued a drivers license to my 94 year old aunt.

 

[football24/7]

If this indeed is his 3rd positive test, then this is his last chance. He has done nothing since being drafted. I wonder how far back does this problem exist. The advanced scouts must have known of a problem while in college if one existed. I hope Wendell gets his life straight first, then the football will follow.

 

[azdad1978]

And their are those that continue to defend Little!

Yup they are called the Rams fans. What a piece of garbage.

 

[JeffGollin]

I'd agree that Wendell is a loser - based on what he's done for us (and for himself) lately.

But it doesn't mean I've given up on him - it's just that, until he acts (and plays) like a winner, he remains a loser.

To be fair, this suspension is an outgrowth of something that happened away from Arizona on June 27th before Dennis Green and his people were able to get him into camp and under their watchful eye. He looked pretty good in that final game vs. Denver.

His transgression was alcohol-related and, as far as we know, had nothing to do with heroin, coke or even weed.

I think it's pretty hard to pass permanent judgment on Wendell without knowing how he's been doing within the context of training camp - between June 27 and now. Without this knowledge, it's nearly impossible to know whether this whole thing is a continuation of a pattern or merely a delayed-reaction to what happened somewhere else a couple of months ago.

I'm pulling for Wendell (and also for the Cardinals).

But I don't think any of us really know how this story will unfurl until we get him back in mid October.

 

[Billy Flynt]

Correct me if I'm wrong (my wife always does):

1st positive: hush-hush - you enter the league SA program
2nd positive: 4 game suspension
3rd positive: 1 year suspension
4th positive: league ban

 

[Billy Flynt]

look what I found....

The official NFL legal reasoning for having such a policy is as follows:

“The illegal use of drugs and the abuse of prescription drugs, over-the-counter drugs, and alcohol (hereinafter referred to as "substances of abuse") is prohibited [ftnt 1] for players in the National Football League ("NFL"). Moreover, the use of alcohol may be prohibited for individual players in certain situations where clinically indicated in accordance with the terms of this Policy.

Substance abuse can lead to on-the-field injuries, to alienation of the fans, to diminished job performance, and to personal hardship. The deaths of several NFL players have demonstrated the potentially tragic consequences of substance abuse. NFL players should not by their conduct suggest that substance abuse is either acceptable or safe. “

Basically keep the players safe so they can perform is the way I read it. There are image considerations to be sure as well as personal safety and well-being. But to institute a policy you at least have to create the image of risk. This is the statement the NFL works off of (directly from the NFL lawyers website). The policy itself is defined in each collective bargaining agreement. Essentially, the penalties involved for violation, the definition of different stages of the plan, etc. are redefined each time there is a new collective bargaining agreement. The plan changed from 1993 to 1999 etc. As I am sure it will be redefined again when the new plan is agreed upon.

Stage 1 is fairly straightforward. Essentially a positive test of someone. Now this could be a random test or a tip from someone such as NFL security or the team. All tests are confidential but a failure gets you into Stage 1. This stage is not to last more than 60 days, during which there is random testing. A player is usually given a few days notice but must not miss the test. Failure of a test or missing of a test gets you automatic admission into Stage 2.

Ah yes, Stage 2. During Stage 1 a treatment plan has been put together. Complete with regular meetings with Psychiatrists, Medical Doctors, etc. to stop what the NFL deems might be a problem starting. In Stage 2, which is only to last 24 months or two complete seasons, this gets more intense. You life is really not your own. Tests are more often, less time in advance, and the penalties are far more severe. In the NFL’s own words…

“(1)Discipline for First Failure to Comply in Stage Two: A player who has a Positive Test or who in the judgment of the Medical Director fails to comply with his Treatment Plan during Stage Two will be subject to:

(a) A fine of four-seventeenths (4/17) of the amount in Paragraph 5 of the NFL Player Contract if the player has successfully completed Stage One; and

(b) A suspension for the period of time to cover four consecutive regular season and post-season (including Pro Bowl, if selected) games without pay if he did not successfully complete Stage One.

(2)Discipline for Second Failure to Comply in Stage Two: A player who has two Positive Tests in Stage Two; or fails twice, as determined by the Medical Director, to comply with his Treatment Plan in Stage Two; or has a Positive Test and fails to comply with his Treatment Plan, as determined by the Medical Director, will incur:

(a) A suspension for the period of time to cover four consecutive regular and post season games (including the Pro Bowl, if selected) without pay if the player was fined pursuant to Section E.2.b.(1)(a) above; and

(b) A suspension for the period of time to cover six consecutive regular and post season games (including the Pro Bowl, if selected) without pay if the player was suspended pursuant to Section E.2.b.(1)(b) above.”

Pretty straightforward. You would think someone in Stage 2 would take this seriously. After all, where else can you get paid this much money as in the NFL? But addiction is a very tough thing to beat. But stay away from Stage 3!!!

In Stage 3, the player has failed the other two stages. There is no time limit on Stage 3. Once in this stage, you are in this stage for the rest of your career, period. Unannounced testing, counseling from all angles, NO TOLERANCE for failure. This is stricter than the requirements of the military, companies, or any other sport I know of.

You fail in Stage 3, the penalty is, in the NFL’s own words, BANISHMENT! First for a minimum of one year, second, while it is on a case by case basis the chances of maintaining your career are pretty slim. Start looking at a new line of work. Once you are banished, you do not get paid regardless of whether is was a guaranteed signing bonus or not. If you apply for reinstatement, and are reinstated, then you can pick up your contract. Although many teams have clauses in the behavioral section of the contract that would nullify it if you hit Stage 3. At Stage 3 you are really at the mercy of the NFL to get yourself back in.

 

[justAndy]

...

Sunday night - I meet my girl at a pub in Phx - have a small pitcher of beer. Followed over the next 90 minutes by 3 pitchers of water.
I swear i heard BIM in my head...
Yes - pro atheletes who can't stay in their shoes regarding substances ARE losers - risking a career in which you can make millions in a few years is just stupid.
A lot of these guys have been shielded by their hometown cops and judges - who let them slide because they're alumni of the school that the young jock plays for...

 

[Russ Smith]

With respect to Bryant this clearly was not his first time and here's my rationale for why.

Not that long ago we had Jeff Garcia in a VERY highly publicized case of busted for a DUI. Garcia is not serving ANY suspension, although he likely had to enter the substance program as has been outlined here.

To my knowledge there were no differences in the 2 cases, so for Bryant to get suspended he HAD to be a prior member of the substance abuse program.

 

[spanky1]

With respect to Bryant this clearly was not his first time and here's my rationale for why.

Not that long ago we had Jeff Garcia in a VERY highly publicized case of busted for a DUI. Garcia is not serving ANY suspension, although he likely had to enter the substance program as has been outlined here.

To my knowledge there were no differences in the 2 cases, so for Bryant to get suspended he HAD to be a prior member of the substance abuse program.

Russ,

You are 100% correct.......this is a second offense.

 

[Redheart]

... The ONE thing I don't think is fair to lay on Wendell's feet is the contract.

First off you can't hold out until you have a contract, rookies are unsigned, holdouts are guys like Barry Sanders who twice refused to report to camp when he had a signed contract.

Second, it was well documented the Cards offers to Bryant were lower than the slot value, as soon as the offer came up, he signed.

If he really has failed 3 tests, by all means take him to task for that, but his reporting late was really the last example of a Cards first round pick who was treated somewhat poorly in negotiations, he wasn't being offered a "fair" contract as defined by what everyone else was getting, we didn't want to do bells and whistles so the total for his offer was much lower, we eventually caved. IN some ways Bryant and his agent HELPED the Cards because they were dragged kicking and screaming into the present state of NFL rookie contracts, which is why we were able to sign guys in recent years...

You know, I just can't get behind the "poor" draft choice mentality. Big evil Cardinal organization making sub-par offers is another easy shot that rings of the always-popular "Screw-the-Man" theme.

It has always seemed absurd to me that rookies who have not proved anything can get such a big bonus. In any other business, the largest salaries go to those who have proved themselves and have the credentials and experience to show it. Only professional sports seem to be upside down requiring owners to gamble huge sums on potential. That really should be fixed.

If a player performs, he should get paid. High draft picks should be rewarded with higher signing bonuses, but fixed at reasonable numbers negotiated by the players unions and owners; rookies with top performance numbers should have the right to renegotiate their contracts. I think the player union would work to make sure more money was available to reward and keep veterans and that would work for owners and fans who want to keep quality high.

I think part of the problem is that most of these rookies are basically "set" after just signing the contract; losing motivation to keep working hard and being overwhelmed with more money and temptations than any young person can be prepared to deal with. Yet we keep throwing them into the fire and the sports agents keep smiling and holding out while their "superstar" gets what he "deserves".

The real fact is that we don't know the facts on most all negotiations...but that doesn't stop the spin-doctors on both sides.

Just looking at the facts in Wendell’s case; he was paid huge upfront and has done nothing since. The Cardinals held up their side and paid big for performance. Wendell failed to hold up his side on performance or conduct. He has three years left on his contract counting this one, and this year he already has tanked four games.

So…do you "give him one more chance” or "cut his butt"??? The Cardinal Fan in me wants to see this 1st round investment pay off. The businessman in me says you really have to look at his past performance hard now, and looking at the facts…keeping him around is throwing good money after bad.

 

[Russ Smith]

The real fact is that we don't know the facts on most all negotiations...but that doesn't stop the spin-doctors on both sides.

Just looking at the facts in Wendell’s case; he was paid huge upfront and has done nothing since. The Cardinals held up their side and paid big for performance. Wendell failed to hold up his side on performance or conduct. He has three years left on his contract counting this one, and this year he already has tanked four games.

So…do you "give him one more chance” or "cut his butt"??? The Cardinal Fan in me wants to see this 1st round investment pay off. The businessman in me says you really have to look at his past performance hard now, and looking at the facts…keeping him around is throwing good money after bad.

I see your side and as noted, my original post was slightly in error. His ultimate deal was the same base as had been offered months earlier, the only "apparent" change was escalators and incentives and we have no idea if they were really new or not, although his agent, Cindrich, said they were.

My real point was that like it or not the system "works" on slotting, and the Cards for years had a habit of ignoring slotting and offered less money to players like Shelton and Bryant that led to protacted negotiations and wasted years for the players.

The Cards wound up giving him 5 years 7.55 million with escalators and incentives. Donte Stallworth, taken with the pick AFTER, got 5 years 8.875 million and that included a 2 tier bonus (roster bonus) and several "workout" bonuses and an option to void the last year(it's really a 6 year deal but the last year voids easily).

Dwight Freeney was picked directly ahead of Bryant, and got a 7 year 14.5 million and change deal that voids to 5 years 9 million based on playing time which he's almost certainly already achieved.

So in both cases over 5 years Bryant got significantly less because of our then refusal to do tiered bonuses. But as a result of that horrendous negotiation and its result, we now DO tiered bonuses.

I agree to date he's been a bust, I'm furious about the substance deal, explains a lot and annoys the hell out of me. But I still feel it's unfair to just blanket label him as a greedy athlete who shot himself in the foot by not signing right away, his deal was clearly inferior to the guys picked around him.

In fact if I'm not mistaken, Haynesworth, taken 3 picks after him, got an identical bonus and more salary over 5 years(his bonus was 2 tiered so he got 3.8 first year, 1.7 second.)

 

[Redheart]

...My real point was that like it or not the system "works" on slotting, and the Cards for years had a habit of ignoring slotting and offered less money to players like Shelton and Bryant that led to protacted negotiations and wasted years for the players...

The reality is a slotting process, not bad, but way out of proportion. It is just not right, but rookies and agents love it. Veterans and owners hate it. It drives the Fans nuts and the only enjoyable thing is when the Cowboy's high draft picks "bust".

"Mr. NFL Commissioner...tear this system down"!


I don't agree on blaming the Cardinals for wasting years of these players careers...again more of blaming the man. Wendell has had plenty of time to show up and play, it is becoming pretty clear he is a bust, head-heart-body.

Shelton was rewarded with a big, juicy contract extention last year. His response was coming into pre-season workouts fat and out of shape;sorry LJ and LJ lovers, but that is a fact too. Now he has a back problem...you can't close your eyes to his being out of shape being a major contributor...strong stomach muscles are the BEST protection for a back...not a BIG stomach...strong abominals.

The point...player accountability for their own performance and conduct...expecially when they have been payed HUGE to do just that.