What did you expect from Watson as the coach?

[sunsfan88]

We will see. Watson has his hands full trying to develop youth and satisfy veterans.

I think Tyler Ulis is aways away as he has not proven himself. I doubt DA would want a rookie PG running anything.

Eh DA has given more minutes to Sam Dekker than Watson has given Bender or Chriss. And Dekker wasn't a top 10 pick or even a lottery pick.

 

[Hoop Head]

Eh DA has given more minutes to Sam Dekker than Watson has given Bender or Chriss. And Dekker wasn't a top 10 pick or even a lottery pick.

Chriss has been starting despite him not being ready. He's getting as many minutes as he should at this point. If he plays better then give him more but I haven't seen anything out of him that warrants extended minutes.

 

[Phrazbit]

Eh DA has given more minutes to Sam Dekker than Watson has given Bender or Chriss. And Dekker wasn't a top 10 pick or even a lottery pick.

Dekker is also a guy who is supposed to be ready to contribute, was a 3 year college player and is in his 2nd NBA season. Your argument is really stupid..

 

[Mainstreet]

Eh DA has given more minutes to Sam Dekker than Watson has given Bender or Chriss. And Dekker wasn't a top 10 pick or even a lottery pick.

As someone already noted (I believe Chaplin) Tyler Ulis and Alan Williams have been sent to the D-league for playing time which is not a negative in my book. However, Ulis is probably the fourth PG on the Suns roster behind Bledsoe, Knight and Barbosa although it could be argued Knight and Barbosa are combo or shooting guards. Anyway, I think it will take a trade for Ulis to be given a serious opportunity to be given steady minutes at PG.

 

[BC867]

LOL, you think D'Antoni could make this team 18-7 this year? That's ridiculous.

Try answering my question.

At best, D'Antoni's coaching puts on a show during the regular season, but does not build for success beyond. 7.5-man rotations; treats playing defense is a joke; not his job to develop young players. He is and has always been one-dimensional.

Unfortunately, with Sarver in charge and the team's obsession with multi-tweeter Guards, a Coach like D'Antoni would fill a few more seats but still not take us to the level of a legitimate playoff team.

 

[AzStevenCal]

As someone already noted (I believe Chaplin) Tyler Ulis and Alan Williams have been sent to the D-league for playing time which is not a negative in my book. However, Ulis is probably the fourth PG on the Suns roster behind Bledsoe, Knight and Barbosa although it could be argued Knight and Barbosa are combo or shooting guards. Anyway, I think it will take a trade for Ulis to be given a serious opportunity to be given steady minutes at PG.

My understanding is that it's just a 1 day assignment. So I have my fingers crossed that the short D league assignment is designed to get them into game shape quickly in anticipation of a roster clearing trade. Probably not, but hope springs eternal.

 

[Errntknght]

As someone already noted (I believe Chaplin) Tyler Ulis and Alan Williams have been sent to the D-league for playing time which is not a negative in my book. However, Ulis is probably the fourth PG on the Suns roster behind Bledsoe, Knight and Barbosa although it could be argued Knight and Barbosa are combo or shooting guards. Anyway, I think it will take a trade for Ulis to be given a serious opportunity to be given steady minutes at PG.

No one has maintained the fiction of Barbosa being a PG for some years and only Knight maintains it for himself, well, he and Watson. His Ast/TO ratio, at 1.2, isn't even respectable for a SG. Anyway Ulis is listed as the 3rd PG behind Bled and Knight, which is not to say he'd get many minutes if one of them went down. Watson would play Booker or Leandro ahead of him. Heck, sending he and Williams to the D league is the most interest he's shown in them all season.

 

[Mainstreet]

My understanding is that it's just a 1 day assignment. So I have my fingers crossed that the short D league assignment is designed to get them into game shape quickly in anticipation of a roster clearing trade. Probably not, but hope springs eternal.

The one game assignment is my understanding as well. I think it will take a trade to get Ulis regular minutes. I'm not sure if a major trade is even being considered now, probably closer to the trade deadline, but one can only hope.

 

[Mainstreet]

No one has maintained the fiction of Barbosa being a PG for some years and only Knight maintains it for himself, well, he and Watson. His Ast/TO ratio, at 1.2, isn't even respectable for a SG. Anyway Ulis is listed as the 3rd PG behind Bled and Knight, which is not to say he'd get many minutes if one of them went down. Watson would play Booker or Leandro ahead of him. Heck, sending he and Williams to the D league is the most interest he's shown in them all season.

It's hard to tell who is the PG when Knight and Barbosa are in the lineup at the same time, maybe neither. I hope Ulis can get into the Suns rotation before the season is over.

 

[JustWinBaby]

Listen, Coach Watson is a lousy coach and PG Watson was a lousy PG.

He had a losing record when he was a player and has to have one of the worst coaching records in history of the NBA. He is used to losing and it shows.

How can you expect a lousy coach, who was a lousy PG, to make any of our Point guards better?

Just in - Mike D'Antoni was a fantastic PG, albeit in Europe and helped make Nash even better than he already was. He was actually winning basketball games in New York with Raymond freaking Felton as his PG. That was prior to Dolan trading him & many others for Melo and Chauncy Billups, who soon was injured. Melo never bought in and neither did any of the idiots that played for him in LA.

Mike is turning that whole Houston roster, young and old, into a team and yes he can win games without Steve Nash as his PG.

I repeat. What player or players have got better due to coach Watson's coaching? Booker even seems to be regressing.

 

[Phrazbit]

Listen, Coach Watson is a lousy coach and PG Watson was a lousy PG.

He had a losing record when he was a player and has to have one of the worst coaching records in history of the NBA. He is used to losing and it shows.

How can you expect a lousy coach, who was a lousy PG, to make any of our Point guards better?

Just in - Mike D'Antoni was a fantastic PG, albeit in Europe and helped make Nash even better than he already was. He was actually winning basketball games in New York with Raymond freaking Felton as his PG. That was prior to Dolan trading him & many others for Melo and Chauncy Billups, who soon was injured. Melo never bought in and neither did any of the idiots that played for him in LA.

Mike is turning that whole Houston roster, young and old, into a team and yes he can win games without Steve Nash as his PG.

I repeat. What player or players have got better due to coach Watson's coaching? Booker even seems to be regressing.

Mike D's senior apologist is at attention I see.

He was barely cracking .500 in the garbage East with Felton. And convenient how you ignore that Mike Woodson took over that Knicks team and they immediately got dramatically better. This is the same D'Antoni who essentially benched Pau Gasol because he couldn't comprehend how to use him.

I'm not going to sing Watson's praises, but no one is going anywhere with Mike D, the guy had a monster of a roster here for years and they slowly eroded (largely with him as the coach/GM), he got worse each passing year in NY and despite being loaded with hall of famers, he fell on his face in LA. I don't care if he is doing decent in Houston with Harden (a player perfect for him), he isn't taking them anywhere of significance either.

 

[Errntknght]

Mike D's senior apologist is at attention I see.

He was barely cracking .500 in the garbage East with Felton. And convenient how you ignore that Mike Woodson took over that Knicks team and they immediately got dramatically better. This is the same D'Antoni who essentially benched Pau Gasol because he couldn't comprehend how to use him.

I'm not going to sing Watson's praises, but no one is going anywhere with Mike D, the guy had a monster of a roster here for years and they slowly eroded (largely with him as the coach/GM), he got worse each passing year in NY and despite being loaded with hall of famers, he fell on his face in LA. I don't care if he is doing decent in Houston with Harden (a player perfect for him), he isn't taking them anywhere of significance either.

Good post Phrazbit, but we ought to give D'A credit for what he's doing with the Rocks. He and Harden are a perfect fit and Harden is having a career year... probably because Mike doesn't make him feel guilty for not playing much D. He's always had good assist numbers but they have really shot up this year - 11.7 per game. Also, Mike seems to have learned something - he's playing deeper into the bench. Ten guys are playing 12+ mpg and another is playing 11 per. Harden is playing heavy minutes at 36.7 but thats normal for him. The whole team shoots 3's and thats right in line with what Mike likes. Their defense is not as good as it was before but it's nothing like the Suns D used to be - its right at the league average. They haven't been stellar is the post season in recent
years so they couldn't do much worse but we shouldn't write him off.

 

[hcsilla]

Oh yes and Brandon Knight and PJ Tucker are playing at All Star levels.

Knight is on pace to have statistically the worst season ever in basketball history. His FG% is atrocious, he has the DEAD WORST +/- in the NBA and his PER is a joke.

But yet Bender/Ulis/Chris's can't get those minutes?

Tucker is playing OK, but playing him (and even keeping him on the roster) makes zero sense, I agree.

Knight is so freaking bad that trading him is out of question, IMO since his value is at lowest ever. He doesn't take away minutes from Chriss or Bender, though. The Suns' options with Knight are extremely limited: unless they want to accept a much lesser price than they paid for him, there is no other possibility than trading Bledsoe (for a can't refuse offer) and trying to build-up Knight again as a starter and then trade him.

It's still quite doubtful that the Suns can "fool" a lot of GM's this way except maybe Ernie Grünfeld.

 

[3rdside]

I can't say say for certain whether DA is or isn't, but i'd almost certainly lean is based on recent events.

Phil Jackson called out Carmelo, of the knicks, the other day for consistently not moving the ball, the antithesis of DA's philosophy.

I'd imagine Kobe of the lakers was of the same ball-stopping / self centric mold. There's no reason to think these two were any different when DA was coaching them.

What I do know is DA had a great record in Phoenix with a great system and he's now doing great again in Houston.

Certain coaches for certain styles and situations in other words and for DA particularly, the absence of huge egos with unchangeable playing styles that don't mesh with his philosophy.

So there is little doubt for me when looking at our pathetic offence that d'antoni would definitely be getting more out of our roster than Watson is - we're actually pretty stocked with three potential 20 and 5 guys (Bledsoe, Knight and booker) none of whom have egos so large and habits so ingrained (I don't think) that they wouldn't buy into a ball movement philosophy, unlike Carmelo and Kobe, with better results all around.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[AzStevenCal]

Tucker is playing OK, but playing him (and even keeping him on the roster) makes zero sense, I agree.

Knight is so freaking bad that trading him is out of question, IMO since his value is at lowest ever. He doesn't take away minutes from Chriss or Bender, though. The Suns' options with Knight are extremely limited: unless they want to accept a much lesser price than they paid for him, there is no other possibility than trading Bledsoe (for a can't refuse offer) and trying to build-up Knight again as a starter and then trade him.

It's still quite doubtful that the Suns can "fool" a lot of GM's this way except maybe Ernie Grünfeld.

As a point guard Knight was a flawed but promising young player. As a two guard, he's consistently been among the worst players in the league. Most of us are convinced that "flawed but promising" is a label he'll never move past but it's far better than the Knight we've put up with.

So, I'm also in favor of moving Bledsoe and living with Knight as our starting PG for the rest of this season in the hopes that someone will see something they like. Best case scenario is that Bledsoe gets us another high pick in this draft and that Knight improves his game enough to entice a suitor. I can't see him playing well enough to improve our draft spot so it would be a win/win situation for us.

 

[Hoop Head]

I can't say say for certain whether DA is or isn't, but i'd almost certainly lean is based on recent events.

Phil Jackson called out Carmelo, of the knicks, the other day for consistently not moving the ball, the antithesis of DA's philosophy.

I'd imagine Kobe of the lakers was of the same ball-stopping / self centric mold. There's no reason to think these two were any different when DA was coaching them.

What I do know is DA had a great record in Phoenix with a great system and he's now doing great again in Houston.

Certain coaches for certain styles and situations in other words and for DA particularly, the absence of huge egos with unchangeable playing styles that don't mesh with his philosophy.

So there is little doubt for me when looking at our pathetic offence that d'antoni would definitely be getting more out of our roster than Watson is - we're actually pretty stocked with three potential 20 and 5 guys (Bledsoe, Knight and booker) none of whom have egos so large and habits so ingrained (I don't think) that they wouldn't buy into a ball movement philosophy, unlike Carmelo and Kobe, with better results all around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In Houston almost everyone predicted that Harden would put up crazy numbers but the team wouldn't actually contend for anything. One of the question marks was if he would let Harden man the PG position, which he has, and it's worked out better than anyone could have thought. He's always been a great scorer in Houston but leading the league in assists is a surprise to just about everyone. That doesn't mean they'll be anymore than the Suns were under D'Antoni though, which was a 50 win and fade team. He won't be able to beat the Warriors, Spurs, or Clippers in the postseason. The Rockets didn't have much choice in the postseason as far as retooling their roster after Howard left for nothing in return after clashing with Harden most of last year. They'll win more regular season games than last year but that's it. They'll be happy with that for the next 2-3 seasons but he'll wear out his welcome there like he did here. They won't become a legit contender under him but will be fun to watch, that is what helped get us where we are now. We were fun to watch but didn't win anything, develop anyone, or create anything for the future.

What could he do for the Suns though, now or long term? He might win about 35-40 games, which is just enough to piss off our fan base because our young guys won't be getting developed and we won't get a high draft pick either. Half our team is on rookie contracts and unproven at the NBA level, D'Antoni won't be the one to get them ready and our roster as a whole doesn't mesh with his style or past, at all. I doubt with Bledsoe's injury history he could withstand a season under D'Antoni, which would make him virtually untradeable if he went down for another long term knee surgery. Bledsoe also doesn't seem to push the ball on offense very well, even if healthy, he didn't push it much when Hornacek tried running a fast break offense. Both Bledsoe and Knight turn it over way too much in a slower style, I doubt they'd be better in a fast paced offense. Knight is just awful, I don't see running making him better. Ulis is too young for D'Antoni. If he couldn't use Pau Gasol in LA what makes anyone think he'd use Chandler or Len, who are both slower and have limited offensives games in comparison. There's virtually 0 chance of him developing Len into a solid NBA player also, which means just throwing away any chances he has of turning into a solid NBA Center, which he seems to be doing right now. Chriss and Bender are too young but would probably get some minutes out of necessity but they'd end up being Amare 2.0 on defense, at best. Do people forget that D'Antoni was the coach Amare had early in his career which helped ruin any chance of him becoming a capable defender? All that to be the 9th or 10th seed in the West again, why?

 

[Mainstreet]

As a point guard Knight was a flawed but promising young player. As a two guard, he's consistently been among the worst players in the league. Most of us are convinced that "flawed but promising" is a label he'll never move past but it's far better than the Knight we've put up with.

So, I'm also in favor of moving Bledsoe and living with Knight as our starting PG for the rest of this season in the hopes that someone will see something they like. Best case scenario is that Bledsoe gets us another high pick in this draft and that Knight improves his game enough to entice a suitor. I can't see him playing well enough to improve our draft spot so it would be a win/win situation for us.

It seems you have a methodology for moving Bledsoe and Knight. Interesting. I think most posters would be in favor of trading Knight, at least first.

The Suns have run through so many PGs it makes it makes the head spend. After Nash there has been Goran Dragic, Aaron Brooks, Bledsoe, IT and Brandon Knight. I've probably missed some. I guess Thomas has been the best of the lot. At some point the Suns need to find a PG where they are content. Drafting a PG in 2017 is no guarantee they will draft a PG better than Bledsoe.

 

[AzStevenCal]

It seems you have a methodology for moving Bledsoe and Knight. Interesting. I think most posters would be in favor of trading Knight, at least first.

The Suns have run through so many PGs it makes it makes the head spend. After Nash there has been Goran Dragic, Aaron Brooks, Bledsoe, IT and Brandon Knight. I've probably missed some. I guess Thomas has been the best of the lot. At some point the Suns need to find a PG where they are content. Drafting a PG in 2017 is no guarantee they will draft a PG better than Bledsoe.

I like Eric and I doubt that Knight will ever be his equal. But Bledsoe isn't at the level where you can succeed with him as your best player. Knowing that and knowing that Rich Paul is not going to hand out an injury discount, I just don't want any part of his next contract negotiation. There are franchises that can afford to pay big bucks to an injury risk, we aren't among them. And if we wait until we have to move him, it will likely be at a discount.

 

[Phrazbit]

I like Eric and I doubt that Knight will ever be his equal. But Bledsoe isn't at the level where you can succeed with him as your best player. Knowing that and knowing that Rich Paul is not going to hand out an injury discount, I just don't want any part of his next contract negotiation. There are franchises that can afford to pay big bucks to an injury risk, we aren't among them. And if we wait until we have to move him, it will likely be at a discount.

This is very sound logic...

But... I hate the idea of taking such a monumental step back, sans Bledsoe this team would be historically wretched, especially if Knight continues to play as poorly in an increased role. Trading Bledsoe would kill even the dream of fighting for the playoffs in the next few years and further foster the perception of the Suns as team who throws talented players away, especially with how much Bledsoe has clearly bought into the franchise. I know we won't win anything with him as the best player, but I don't think he has the ego that says he has to be the best player, he already defers a ton to Booker on offense.

With the new CBA it sounds as though it is going to get harder to poach talent in free agency, so I'm not all that worried about the money. If some star wants to come here it would have to be via trade or by taking a discount that the CBA would basically mandate.

 

[Mainstreet]

I like Eric and I doubt that Knight will ever be his equal. But Bledsoe isn't at the level where you can succeed with him as your best player. Knowing that and knowing that Rich Paul is not going to hand out an injury discount, I just don't want any part of his next contract negotiation. There are franchises that can afford to pay big bucks to an injury risk, we aren't among them. And if we wait until we have to move him, it will likely be at a discount.

I guess I'm not looking beyond Bledsoe's current contract. If the Suns can build their team the next few years they should be in a better position if he walks. Maybe the Suns can draft his replacement. However, (IMO) the Suns should not keep both players so I think Knight needs to be traded if the Suns get an opportunity.

 

[BC867]

So, I'm also in favor of moving Bledsoe and living with Knight as our starting PG for the rest of this season in the hopes that someone will see something they like. Best case scenario is that Bledsoe gets us another high pick in this draft and that Knight improves his game enough to entice a suitor. I can't see him playing well enough to improve our draft spot so it would be a win/win situation for us.

If Knight were a true Point Guard or pure Shooting Guard, there might some merit to that, Steve. But no matter how much he plays, he is a man without a position. Starting for the rest of the season won't change that perception.

And as far as making him the main man to make the rest of the team better, it would accomplish only one thing. Tanking in the first degree. After, what, seven years of uncoordinated tanking, isn't it time to abandon that half-fast (say it fast three times) philosophy.

More empty seats aren't going to keep the team in Phoenix. Ah, that's it! You want to see the Inland Empire Suns.

 

[Mainstreet]

If Knight were a true Point Guard or pure Shooting Guard, there might some merit to that, Steve. But no matter how much he plays, he is a man without a position. Starting for the rest of the season won't change that perception.

And as far as making him the main man to make the rest of the team better, it would accomplish only one thing. Tanking in the first degree. After, what, seven years of uncoordinated tanking, isn't it time to abandon that half-fast (say it fast three times) philosophy.

More empty seats aren't going to keep the team in Phoenix. Ah, that's it! You want to see the Inland Empire Suns.

There is a lot of truth in what you say although tanking for the 2017 draft and perhaps getting another first round pick in the draft might not be all that bad long term.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If Knight were a true Point Guard or pure Shooting Guard, there might some merit to that, Steve. But no matter how much he plays, he is a man without a position. Starting for the rest of the season won't change that perception.

And as far as making him the main man to make the rest of the team better, it would accomplish only one thing. Tanking in the first degree. After, what, seven years of uncoordinated tanking, isn't it time to abandon that half-fast (say it fast three times) philosophy.

More empty seats aren't going to keep the team in Phoenix. Ah, that's it! You want to see the Inland Empire Suns.

I'm clearly not a Knight fan but keep in mind that the entire time he's been here he's been under a mandate to be the shooting guard. The only reason I don't fully like "my plan" is that IMO Knight is doing pretty much the same thing that Markieff did last season. AFAIC he's sabotaging this team while pretending to be the brave little soldier.

The plus in all this is that with Knight starting, Ulis becomes the backup. I wouldn't be devastated though if we traded Bledsoe and just gave Knight away at the same time.

 

[sunsfan88]

I'm okay with trading Bledsoe not because I'm worried about his next contract but because I'm worried about his next injury. After Derrick Rose, Bledsoe probably has the worst knees in the league among PGs.

Plus because of his play this season, we can sell high on him.

But with McD and Watson and even Sarver still pimping the playoffs to Suns fans, there's little chance they trade their best player even if it is the smart thing to do.

 

[3rdside]

He's always been a great scorer in Houston but leading the league in assists is a surprise to just about everyone.

Take a bow, Mike D'Antoni.

That doesn't mean they'll be anymore than the Suns were under D'Antoni though, which was a 50 win and fade team. He won't be able to beat the Warriors, Spurs, or Clippers in the postseason.

Sorry but you can't make statements like this...how do you know? DA is not stupid and will have learned from his time at the Suns. Houston have the 4th best record in the league and are genuine contenders this season already; a tweak here and a tweak there and who knows.

What could he do for the Suns though, now or long term? He might win about 35-40 games, which is just enough to piss off our fan base because our young guys won't be getting developed and we won't get a high draft pick either.

Again, how do you know? He's just turned Harden into an MVP candidate overseeing a meteoric rise in his assists (6.6 above his career average, 4.3 above his last season). Sure our backcourt trio aren't that good but we've seen Watson turn a 20 and five guy into literally (by one measure), the worst player in the league.

The point being that at this stage, anything is better than Watson and that definitely includes DA.

Half our team is on rookie contracts and unproven at the NBA level, D'Antoni won't be the one to get them ready and our roster as a whole doesn't mesh with his style or past, at all.

Again, how do you know? If he improves Harden by that much he probably could find a way with at least one of our back court - there's a ton of talent there that Watson is just not extracting.

I doubt with Bledsoe's injury history he could withstand a season under D'Antoni, which would make him virtually untradeable if he went down for another long term knee surgery.

This is going off tangent.

Both Bledsoe and Knight turn it over way too much in a slower style, I doubt they'd be better in a fast paced offense.

Strictly speaking we're the second fastest team in the league (click on the 'pace' header in the link), we're just very inefficient:

http://www.espn.com/nba/hollinger/teamstats/_/sort/paceFactor

Knight is just awful, I don't see running making him better.

He was 20 and 5 last year; DA couldn't possibly coach a decline worse than what Watson has.

Ulis is too young for D'Antoni.

Yet Dekker the rookie gets more minutes than any of ours.

If he couldn't use Pau Gasol in LA what makes anyone think he'd use Chandler or Len, who are both slower and have limited offensives games in comparison.

I don't think Pau was the main cause of his problems:

http://www.lakersnation.com/former-...ecalls-hostile-environment-in-l-a/2016/10/26/

Between the issue this article raises and what I said already about Kobe's habits vs DA's philosophy, it was a recipe for disaster. DA isn't entirely innocent I'm sure but there are mitigating factors.

There's virtually 0 chance of him developing Len into a solid NBA player also, which means just throwing away any chances he has of turning into a solid NBA Center, which he seems to be doing right now.

I'd like to develop Len but I'd prefer our team as a whole not to suck and Len is probably not the second coming of anyone special.

Do people forget that D'Antoni was the coach Amare had early in his career which helped ruin any chance of him becoming a capable defender?

So it's DA's fault that Amare can't defend? Not sure I buy that entirely although we definitely weren't good defensively as a whole.

All that to be the 9th or 10th seed in the West again, why?

Houston have gone from 17th to 4th in less than one season while we have managed to get worse, again. There is surely no comparison between Watson and DA as a better option.


Final Rant:
It's all moot anyway - we're lumbered with McD and I have little faith in him as a GM; he seems egocentric, quick to pass the blame, unable to build a team of the 'right' players, and at this stage may forever be known as the guy who traded for Brandon Knight (Lakers pick update: #8 and getting higher)...So while DA probably wouldn't take us to the promised land he'd at least make us fun to watch as ball movement is just not overrated.