What do you think happens with these guys?

[NastyOne]

For people that consistently cry that Sarver is the one who ultimately makes any decisions regarding money issues (including signing players), how can you even bring this up?

You think Sarver had NO SAY in signing Steve Nash? Or Q? Or Raja Bell?

Which is it? You say he is so strict that he forced us to trade our picks, yet the moves that happened to get us into the WCF the last two years are all Colangelo? Um, hello? Does that make any sense to you? Seriously?

How did trading our picks get us into the WCF?

Saving 2mil by trading away Iguodola helped us get into the WCF? Why cause we signed Richardson? Great move!

Trading away Nate Robinson helped us get into the WCF? We had to then trade that mistake and a first rounder to get a guy we will also have to trade within a year. Another great move

And he signed Nash cause we had the money available to sign Nash, and it would help his image with the fans by bringing in Nash.If he pocketed the money right away no one would've shown up to the games.Meaning no future profit available to pocket.

 

[Chaplin]

The problem really is simply the injuries to Amare and KT. Period.

If those 2 had been healthy all year, these threads about how Sarver is cheap wouldn't exist. Because we'd be winning. You can't tell me we couldn't beat Dallas had we had a healthy Amare and KT. And we CERTAINLY would have been the Heat (we arguably could have beat them with the squad we had in the playoffs this year).

But instead, what do we have? A bunch of people who gauge everything on this year--an overachieving injury-depleted team that STILL made it to the Western Conference Finals.

The anti-Sarver stuff just doesn't make any sense because there is NOTHING that proves any of what the anti-Sarver contingent is saying. Nothing at all.

 

[Chaplin]

anyone got the link to that quote - I remember there being a thread about it (and you probably do also Chap, but you wouldn't really admit that no would you).

You want a confrontation? Is that what you are looking for? You have got to be the most immature person I've ever had the displeasure to talk to. I don't remember you being like this 2 years ago. And I DON'T remember. I'm not saying there wasn't a "report", as you call it, but I certainly don't remember anything official saying that. You can't even quote it!

Besides, if Sarver had reservations at first and there was NO COLANGELO - doesn't it stand to reason that he WOULDN'T HAVE SIGNED NASH? Is that a stretch?

What are you talking about? IF, and that's a big IF, Sarver didn't want to sign Steve Nash--period--we wouldn't have signed him. If he didn't want to, but the C's did, I think it's perfectly acceptable that they convinced him otherwise. And it paid off. But if Sarver was as cheap as you seem to think he is, it wouldn't matter what the C's said. We wouldn't have signed him.

And I'm sorry - but when you've run the classiest organization in the NBA and have been named to multiple chairs to turn the league/olympic team around and have won of the highest winning percentages of any team in NBA histoyr, that's about as close to saint hood as your gonna get in the NBA.

You seem to think I think the Colangelo's are a bunch of idiots. Jerry was a great owner, but he still didn't bring a championship to America West Arena, did he? Saint him all you like, but that's the bottom line.

 

[Chaplin]

How did trading our picks get us into the WCF?

Saving 2mil by trading away Iguodola helped us get into the WCF? Why cause we signed Richardson? Great move!

Trading away Nate Robinson helped us get into the WCF? We had to then trade that mistake and a first rounder to get a guy we will also have to trade within a year. Another great move

And he signed Nash cause we had the money available to sign Nash, and it would help his image with the fans by bringing in Nash.If he pocketed the money right away no one would've shown up to the games.Meaning no future profit available to pocket.

You are reaching. This has nothing to do with what really happened, this is just your opinion.

Trading away a pick that could have been Igoudala was a mistake, but you are blaming Sarver entirely for that? Amazing! I can't believe how much you love the Colangelos!

 

[Cheesebeef]

You want a confrontation? Is that what you are looking for? You have got to be the most immature person I've ever had the displeasure to talk to. I don't remember you being like this 2 years ago. And I DON'T remember. I'm not saying there wasn't a "report", as you call it, but I certainly don't remember anything official saying that. You can't even quote it!



What are you talking about? IF, and that's a big IF, Sarver didn't want to sign Steve Nash--period--we wouldn't have signed him. If he didn't want to, but the C's did, I think it's perfectly acceptable that they convinced him otherwise. And it paid off. But if Sarver was as cheap as you seem to think he is, it wouldn't matter what the C's said. We wouldn't have signed him.



You seem to think I think the Colangelo's are a bunch of idiots. Jerry was a great owner, but he still didn't bring a championship to America West Arena, did he? Saint him all you like, but that's the bottom line.

cry me a river chap. Someone who took their ball and went home by starting a new message board and THEN calling someone else immature is laughable.

And in no way did I think you said the C's are idiots - I merely stated that I thought they were as close to saint as the NBA gets - how does that translate into anything you think?

 

[NastyOne]

The problem really is simply the injuries to Amare and KT. Period.

If those 2 had been healthy all year, these threads about how Sarver is cheap wouldn't exist. Because we'd be winning. You can't tell me we couldn't beat Dallas had we had a healthy Amare and KT. And we CERTAINLY would have been the Heat (we arguably could have beat them with the squad we had in the playoffs this year).

But instead, what do we have? A bunch of people who gauge everything on this year--an overachieving injury-depleted team that STILL made it to the Western Conference Finals.

The anti-Sarver stuff just doesn't make any sense because there is NOTHING that proves any of what the anti-Sarver contingent is saying. Nothing at all.

No it wouldnt make a difference because we've been talking about how cheap Sarver is since he became owner.

Everything from allowing young stars to leave cause he was to cheap to extend him the previous season(Johnson), or letting players walk cause he didnt want to pay him anything close to what he was worth(Hunter) or giving away draft picks to save money (Every pick since he took over)

Its not a total knock on Sarver, its just calling him out on what he is, and thats a cheap owner.

We have a cheap owner, accept it, dont make up excuses when he makes moves that save him money and make it look like they have some master plan up their sleeves.

No matter how good Diaw is, we would've been way better with Joe Johnson with his 50mil contract if Sarver extended him.

We wouldve been way better with Iguodola instead of trading the pick to save cash for when we sign Richardson.

Not to mention that we never took out any insurance on Richarsons back or something like that, and thats the reason we had to throw in our first rounder.(Forgot exactly what happend, but i know the cheap basterd had something to do with it lol)

Sarver wants to make money and win, but you can't do both unless you run a franchise in a big market.

So if it comes down to it, which do you think he will want first...Money back on his investment or Title?

 

[Diamondback Jay]

He spent money to make money.

That's generally the purpose of investing in a business venture, no?

Seriously, who gets in to the sports business, or any business for that matter, to lose their ass?

 

[NastyOne]

You are reaching. This has nothing to do with what really happened, this is just your opinion.

Trading away a pick that could have been Igoudala was a mistake, but you are blaming Sarver entirely for that? Amazing! I can't believe how much you love the Colangelos!

Yeah im blaming him for that

He traded the pick to save money for when we would sign Richardson later in freeagency.

How is that not his fault? Why have both when you can have one and save $2mil i guess.

No one just trades a lottery pick for a future first rounder.Unless you don't want to spend anymore money on your roster for the upcoming season.

 

[Chaplin]

No it wouldnt make a difference because we've been talking about how cheap Sarver is since he became owner.

Everything from allowing young stars to leave cause he was to cheap to extend him the previous season(Johnson), or letting players walk cause he didnt want to pay him anything close to what he was worth(Hunter) or giving away draft picks to save money (Every pick since he took over)

Go ask Philadelphia fans if they think Hunter earns his paycheck.

As for Joe Johnson, we've gone over this so many times. There is nothing cheap about that whole situation. Joe Johnson wanted to leave the Suns, period. He hadn't earned a 50 million contract that first summer, and it is arguable that he hadn't earned a 70 million contract the following year. Talk all you want about it, but hindsight is 20/20. What do you think we'd be doing now with Amare, Shawn AND Joe Johnson with near-max or max deals? Not to mention Steve Nash with his large contract. Where do you think we'd be now. That's 4 players, and they would eat up a majority of our money next year. We wouldn't be talking about championship at all.

Its not a total knock on Sarver, its just calling him out on what he is, and thats a cheap owner.

We have a cheap owner, accept it, dont make up excuses when he makes moves that save him money and make it look like they have some master plan up their sleeves.

Every single owner except for the Knicks, make moves to save money.

No matter how good Diaw is, we would've been way better with Joe Johnson with his 50mil contract if Sarver extended him.

Again, Joe Johnson had not earned that contract that summer. Plain and simple. He definitely would have been worth it the final year, but it's the risk you take. Look at the Tim Thomas situation. He bamboozled Milwaukee into giving him that HUGE contract, and look where that got them.

We wouldve been way better with Iguodola instead of trading the pick to save cash for when we sign Richardson.

I'm not arguing against that. Igoudala would have been great, but it's not like the Colangelo's ever made a bad deal. Or a deal that centers around salary. Remember Tom Gugliotta?

Not to mention that we never took out any insurance on Richarsons back or something like that, and thats the reason we had to throw in our first rounder.(Forgot exactly what happend, but i know the cheap basterd had something to do with it lol)

It is as much Bryan Colangelo's responsibility to handle that as anyone's. And you have no proof that he went to Sarver and said anything about it. You just assume because your unproved theory says that Sarver is cheap.

Sarver wants to make money and win, but you can't do both unless you run a franchise in a big market.

So if it comes down to it, which do you think he will want first...Money back on his investment or Title?

Then what's the point in any of us being fans of a smaller market team??

 

[Chaplin]

Yeah im blaming him for that

He traded the pick to save money for when we would sign Richardson later in freeagency.

How is that not his fault? Why have both when you can have one and save $2mil i guess.

No one just trades a lottery pick for a future first rounder.Unless you don't want to spend anymore money on your roster for the upcoming season.

You're a fool if you think the Colangelo's had no say in anything. You make it sound like the C's went to Sarver and BEGGED him to let them draft Igoudala!

 

[Cheesebeef]

You're a fool if you think the Colangelo's had no say in anything. You make it sound like the C's went to Sarver and BEGGED him to let them draft Igoudala!

not sure why you have to call Nasty a "fool" there, but regardless, I don't get the critcism for the Iggy/Q move. We wanted as much salary space at the time and the Bulls looked like they were gonna be horrible for years - seemed like the right move to me. I mean it's not like they shipped out the pick and then DIDN'T sign anyone. That being said, not sure if someone who normally rbeuke others for being immature should be name-calling either.

 

[Chaplin]

not sure why you have to call Nasty a "fool" there, but regardless, I don't get the critcism for the Iggy/Q move. We wanted as much salary space at the time and the Bulls looked like they were gonna be horrible for years - seemed like the right move to me. I mean it's not like they shipped out the pick and then DIDN'T sign anyone. That being said, not sure if someone who normally rbeuke others for being immature should be name-calling either.

Who's trying to be the angel now? Might as well stop, it's not working.

He blames everything bad that happens with the Suns on Sarver, like you. EVERYTHING. The Colangelo's can do no wrong with him. And that just doesn't make any sense. You don't actually believe that, do you?

 

[NastyOne]

You're a fool if you think the Colangelo's had no say in anything. You make it sound like the C's went to Sarver and BEGGED him to let them draft Igoudala!

I'm sorry but you don't trade lottery picks with great talent left on the board (Deng and Iggy) for future picks.

We saved a whopping 2mil and change on that deal.

Anything to keep Sarver out of tax range.

And with BC's past on this team, you have to figure that was a Sarver move.

 

[Chaplin]

I'm sorry but you don't trade lottery picks with great talent left on the board (Deng and Iggy) for future picks.

We saved a whopping 2mil and change on that deal.

Anything to keep Sarver out of tax range.

And with BC's past on this team, you have to figure that was a Sarver move.

Again, your opinion with nothing to back it up. Maybe Sarver had something to do with it, maybe not. But to blame the entire situation on him is naive.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Who's trying to be the angel now? Might as well stop, it's not working.

I'm not trying to do anything here Chap as far as I'M concerned. I readily admit - I'm the bad poster - I've never maintained anything different. What cracks me up is that you think you are any different. Actually, it really just makes me sad for you as you must not be in touch with your true self. You'll get there one day soldier!

 

[az1965]

 

[NastyOne]

Who's trying to be the angel now? Might as well stop, it's not working.

He blames everything bad that happens with the Suns on Sarver, like you. EVERYTHING. The Colangelo's can do no wrong with him. And that just doesn't make any sense. You don't actually believe that, do you?

I never said the C's never did anything wrong.

I was pissed when they traded a boatload of first rounders to get rid of Googs.

But they had a plan, and that plan was Steve Nash.

C's always had a plan and until Sarver can prove he knows what hes doing and not just getting rid of things to save money, people will always jump on his back when he makes these type of moves.

 

[Evil Ash]

C's always had a plan

No they didn't

 

[NastyOne]

No they didn't

Yeah they did, thats the reason we were always in the playoffs.

We may never have won a title under them, but you could always count on them to put a winning team on the floor.

Not to mention if it wernt for some bad luck injuries we probably would already have a couple of championships.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

No it wouldnt make a difference because we've been talking about how cheap Sarver is since he became owner.

Everything from allowing young stars to leave cause he was to cheap to extend him the previous season(Johnson), or letting players walk cause he didnt want to pay him anything close to what he was worth(Hunter) or giving away draft picks to save money (Every pick since he took over)

Its not a total knock on Sarver, its just calling him out on what he is, and thats a cheap owner.

Then, how come he spared no expense at re-signing Amare? If he was "cheap", he'd have said "screw it" and let Amare walk this season, or lowballed him with some rediculous offer.

No matter how good Diaw is, we would've been way better with Joe Johnson with his 50mil contract if Sarver extended him.

If.. That unfortunately is a big if. Can't speculate on something that isn't here anymore. Johnson took his ball to Atlanta. Phoenix made the most of a potentially tough situation, although at this point even I'M scratching the logic behind the traded draft picks. Would Johnson have been valued last season? No doubt about it.. However, all facts considering, Raja Bell and Boris Diaw were huge contributors to the team's success this year, thus the best of a bad situation was made (Bell was signed before Johnson was traded, but you get my drift).

Listen, noone has more respect for the Colangelos than I do. Hell, anyone with any kind of knowledge about Phoenix sports knows that Colangelo was one of the ones who paved the way for this to be the sports town it is. He also has to be given just due for keeping the Suns in Phoenix when it would have been just as easy to take the first bid and get out with his ass in tact.

That being said, facts are this-- the latter years of the Colangelo run were, shall we put it, less than memorable? Between the embarrassments off the court (Kidd, Robinson), to the bad contracts (Hardaway, Longley, Gugliotta) to the lack of production on the court (the team got beyond the first round of the playoffs once following the trade of Barkley), it was hardly as though Jerry's Suns were lining up the championship trophies.

Yes, Sarver botched the Joe Johnson signing.. I'm almost certain in the minds of the Colangelo Crew, for as long as Sarver is owner, he'll be lynched for that by comments of "he's cheap" and "Jerry would have signed him". His first three drafts have been, at best, disappointing.

However, and this is key.. I don't give a rats ass if Sarver and Colangelo had a machette fought dual on Jefferson Street that spilled on to Washington. If Robert Sarver didn't want Nash in Phoenix, he wouldn't have been here. Sarver also penned the paychecks for Amare's extension and Raja Bell, and is on the verge of doing the same for Boris Diaw and Leandro Barbosa. In his two years, the Suns have gone to the Western Conference Finals both years. Love the man, hate the man, say whatever you will. What can't be said however is that he's not dedicated to winning, or he doesn't try to make with what he has.

 

[Evil Ash]

Yeah they did, thats the reason we were always in the playoffs.

We may never have won a title under them, but you could always count on them to put a winning team on the floor.

Not to mention if it wernt for some bad luck injuries we probably would already have a couple of championships.

No they were always in the playoffs because they were reactionary and often did just good enough to stay in the playoffs (ie Googs and if you tell me that was their plan all along seek help immediately). They refused to let the team grow together because they changed their minds on a regular basis as to what would make a championship team. They seemed happy just to get to the playoffs on a regular basis

It wasn't until we went out of the playoffs and got Amare (and then kept the core of the team together) that we took a step forward.

 

[NastyOne]

No they were always in the playoffs because they were reactionary and often did just good enough to stay in the playoffs (ie Googs and if you tell me that was their plan all along seek help immediately). They refused to let the team grow together because they changed their minds on a regular basis as to what would make a championship team. They seemed happy just to get to the playoffs on a regular basis

It wasn't until we went out of the playoffs and got Amare (and then kept the core of the team together) that we took a step forward.

People make it sound like Googs was a horrible signing.

Yes we lost Mcdyess, and did we jump to sign Googs to quickly? maybe

But he was a good player when we signed him

Googs put up 18/10 every year pre signing and he was doing good with us until his knee met up with Randy Livingston's bigass head.

Same with Hardaway

These guys were allstars and we signed them to huge contracts.But the C's only fault was they couldnt predict the future.

Let me see Sarver show that kind of dedication and i'll change my opinion of him.

 

[Cheesebeef]

No they were always in the playoffs because they were reactionary and often did just good enough to stay in the playoffs (ie Googs and if you tell me that was their plan all along seek help immediately). They refused to let the team grow together because they changed their minds on a regular basis as to what would make a championship team. They seemed happy just to get to the playoffs on a regular basis

that's actually completely un-true. The Suns had their master plan to open up cap space and it was widely rumored and almost accepted as fact that we were going to sign both Pippen and McDyess to add to the Kidd teams which would have made us one of THE leading contenders in the entire NBA. They then got screwed by the lockout and all the rules changed and McDyess fled the coup and we got hunbg out to dry. Now Googs was a panic move to be sure, but even after that disasterous offseason, they still turned right back around and traded for Penny (pre-microfracture surgery) who was still a VERY GOOD player at the time and AGAIN - had a VERY GOOD team, one that got a 4 seed and was playing GREAT ball mid-way through the season and then (as usual) Googs tore his ACL and Kidd broke his ankle. After that, injuries to major money guys killed the team and there was nothing the C's could do about it until they could get takers ofr those contracts and surprise surprise, once they did - they turned us into a freaking juggernaut.

To say they simply sat back and tried to make teams that would only make the playoffs isn't remembering that era correctly at all IMO. The lockout and injuries destroyed that era for us - not the Colangelos.

 

[Evil Ash]

People make it sound like Googs was a horrible signing.

Yes we lost Mcdyess, and did we jump to sign Googs to quickly? maybe

But he was a good player when we signed him

Googs put up 18/10 every year pre signing and he was doing good with us until his knee met up with Randy Livingston's bigass head.

He wasn't a Number 1 option that they wanted to go along with Kidd and panicked when McDyess left. They could have and should have saved the money to spend on someone that actually was. Instead they spent money for the sake of spending money and it bit them in the ass

Same with Hardaway

These guys were allstars and we signed them to huge contracts.But the C's only fault was they couldnt predict the future.

He was injury prone BEFORE we got him. Thats not predicting the future, thats using common sense. Another panic move

 

[NastyOne]

He wasn't a Number 1 option that they wanted to go along with Kidd and panicked when McDyess left. They could have and should have saved the money to spend on someone that actually was. Instead they spent money for the sake of spending money and it bit them in the ass



He was injury prone BEFORE we got him. Thats not predicting the future, thats using common sense. Another panic move

Googs was a damn good player with Minnesota, and yes we overpaid, but when its late in freeagency and your top choice just screwed you over, you can't just stand pat when you already have a potential winner on your hands.

Googs was the 2nd best Powerforward available that year, and most of us were glad to have him.But people forget that cause of the injury and money lost on him.

And Penny was one of the top 5 guards in the NBA even with having surgery on one of his knees.

I don't see how he was injury prone, considering it was his first major operation.(Thats like saying Amare is injury prone) He became injury prone after we signed him and the injuries started piling up.