What Have I Got Against Murray?

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Chiefs drafted Todd Blackledge over Jim Kelly and Dan Marino. Not having a Quarterback until Joe Montana came to town for a few years set them back a decade. As for more recently: Ask the Redskins how they feel about that Robert Griffin trade up?

Lol. Talking about decades ago. And you just made the key comment . . . Redskins traded up giving up multiple first round picks. Cards don’t have to do that. Terrible arguments. I mean, really bad.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

How much better would they be with all those picks back (2 additional #1's and a #2)? Granted...they would have had to make the right choices but there could have been some real talent they missed out on. They got a horrible return for gambling on RG3.

You’re right. But the cards don’t have to send all those picks. Also, it obviously didn’t set them back decade if they made the playoffs. And that was the whole point.

 

[Solar7]

Lol. Talking about decades ago. And you just made the key comment . . . Redskins traded up giving up multiple first round picks. Cards don’t have to do that. Terrible arguments. I mean, really bad.

Imagine what would have happened to the Redskins if they hadn't drafted Cousins to cover for the mistake that was RG3.

If Kyler sucks, we're stuck with him next year. It might not be a decade, but it's going to be a while before we're decent if this fails. We can't go QB next year with a Murray pick.

 

[TheCardFan]

Didn't seem to help the Rams very much.

The Rams picked poorly. They could have turned those 3 1st rd picks into Luke Kuechly, Deandre Hopkins, and Khalil Mack. They would still have had another second round pick.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Imagine what would have happened to the Redskins if they hadn't drafted Cousins to cover for the mistake that was RG3.

If Kyler sucks, we're stuck with him next year. It might not be a decade, but it's going to be a while before we're decent if this fails. We can't go QB next year with a Murray pick.

And if he’s great we will be very good again very soon. None of us know.

 

[TheCardFan]

You’re right. But the cards don’t have to send all those picks. Also, it obviously didn’t set them back decade if they made the playoffs. And that was the whole point.

See my post above about who the Rams could have selected with the Redskin picks. How much better would the Redskins be right now with Kuechly, Hopkins, and Mack? Hell, they could have then flipped Mack for 2 more #1 picks.

I would say that negatively impacted them.

 

[GoldGloveschmidt]

Imagine what would have happened to the Redskins if they hadn't drafted Cousins to cover for the mistake that was RG3.

If Kyler sucks, we're stuck with him next year. It might not be a decade, but it's going to be a while before we're decent if this fails. We can't go QB next year with a Murray pick.

And if we stick with Rosen it could be even longer until we're decent. Dude has lead a team to a winning record once in 4 seasons of college and pro.

 

[Solar7]

And if he’s great we will be very good again very soon. None of us know.

If he's "great," will we really? I think this team's talent is atrocious. We could have Joe Montana in his prime and win 6 games at best.

And if we stick with Rosen it could be even longer until we're decent. Dude has lead a team to a winning record once in 4 seasons of college and pro.

Keeping Rosen comes baked in with the ability to improve other areas of your team, and the potential to pick a strong QB in 2020 if we have to.

 

[Delmar M Lewis]

One little caveat how much is the cap hit if Midget fails some like 32 million guarentee over the contract people gotta look at that too we are kinda actually pulling out of cap doo doo only to be saddled with it again Oh the price of Failure is truly high

 

[BW52]

[Q.UOTE="Krangthebrain, post: 3941994, member: 172"]So little of what people are saying against Murray is based on his actual play.

That tells you that they got nothing other than bias.[/QUOTE]
Nonsense.There have been legitimate question concerning his ability to throw in the pocket,his ability to throw to WRs who don`t have 5 yard cushions,His ability to withstand NFL hits,his ability to process reads.All those are on the field questions.College isn`t the NFL.

 

[BW52]

And if he’s great we will be very good again very soon. None of us know.

Hoping he will be great is bucking history.It could happen..but the odds are against him being great.To me that is a unnecessary risk.Take Bosa or Q.Williams build a better defense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

See my post above about who the Rams could have selected with the Redskin picks. How much better would the Redskins be right now with Kuechly, Hopkins, and Mack? Hell, they could have then flipped Mack for 2 more #1 picks.

I would say that negatively impacted them.

What part of THE CARDINALS WOULDNT HAVE TO GIVE UP A BOATLOAD OF PICKS TO SELECT MURRAY are you not understanding? Someone said picking Murray could set the team back a decade. I said it wouldn’t. You used a guy whose team had to give up a ransom to prove otherwise. All you’ve proven is giving up all those picks set the team back - maybe (assuming they batted 1.000 which never happens), and even then they STILL made the playoffs with RGIII sucking. Fail.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

If he's "great," will we really? I think this team's talent is atrocious. We could have Joe Montana in his prime and win 6 games at best.


Keeping Rosen comes baked in with the ability to improve other areas of your team, and the potential to pick a strong QB in 2020 if we have to.

I think people sell the talent short. If Murray succeeds it has three of the most difficult pieces to find:
QB
Pass rusher
Shutdown cb

Good chance for rebound.

Also if team trades Rosen there’s similar ability to improve other areas. Arguing otherwise is disingenuous.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

[Q.UOTE="Krangthebrain, post: 3941994, member: 172"]So little of what people are saying against Murray is based on his actual play.

That tells you that they got nothing other than bias.

Nonsense.There have been legitimate question concerning his ability to throw in the pocket,his ability to throw to WRs who don`t have 5 yard cushions,His ability to withstand NFL hits,his ability to process reads.All those are on the field questions.College isn`t the NFL.[/QUOTE]
So now you’re not only arguing that his winning should be held against him, but that the actual success he showed in the field should be ignored. Man your all-consuming hate for the guy has really caused you to go all out berserker in trying to make up problems. It’s entertaining.

 

[TheCardFan]

@Ouchie-Z-Clown

Two separate points. I was mostly responding to K9 and you jumped in on my response to him.

Yes, it can have an impact on your team. 32m for Murray and 4m-8m cap hit for Rosen...Murray busts and that is going to hurt for years.

Pass on Murray and he becomes the next Mahomes while Rosen busts...that will hurt as well. However, you may have the next Joey Bosa or Aaron Donald (stretch I know but I threw in Mahomes).

Lastly, if Murray busts, we have given up 2 #1 picks, a 3rd, and a 5th (minus whatever we get for Rosen).

 

[BW52]

I think people sell the talent short. If Murray succeeds it has three of the most difficult pieces to find:
QB
Pass rusher
Shutdown cb

Good chance for rebound.

Also if team trades Rosen there’s similar ability to improve other areas. Arguing otherwise is disingenuous.

What if he flops and historically most short QBs fail.Would you be happy with a Flutie-like career for Murray?Would that justify being a #1 pick?IMO he has a better chance having a Flutie-like career than he does of having a Great career.

 

[Solar7]

I think people sell the talent short. If Murray succeeds it has three of the most difficult pieces to find:
QB
Pass rusher
Shutdown cb

Good chance for rebound.

Also if team trades Rosen there’s similar ability to improve other areas. Arguing otherwise is disingenuous.

I have to look at divisional talent. Every QB in our division is better than anyone can argue for either Murray or Rosen, IMO. Sure, we'll steal one or two, but ehhhh.

We have a pass rusher, but pretty much exactly one, and a DL/LB corps with barely anyone else to get excited about. Just placeholders.

Shutdown CB almost left last year and is getting older.

Lastly, I think Rosen gets nothing more than a mid-second at the best. It's just not worth the risk.

 

[Solar7]

@Ouchie-Z-Clown

Two separate points. I was mostly responding to K9 and you jumped in on my response to him.

Yes, it can have an impact on your team. 32m for Murray and 4m-8m cap hit for Rosen...Murray busts and that is going to hurt for years.

Pass on Murray and he becomes the next Mahomes while Rosen busts...that will hurt as well. However, you may have the next Joey Bosa or Aaron Donald (stretch I know but I threw in Mahomes).

Lastly, if Murray busts, we have given up 2 #1 picks, a 3rd, and a 5th (minus whatever we get for Rosen).

This bust part is one of the most important things. We're already year one into a "decade of a lost team," maybe two, considering it was clear we had no shot in Arians' final year.

The FO has managed this all pretty wrecklessly and they need to divert course.

 

[BW52]

Nonsense.There have been legitimate question concerning his ability to throw in the pocket,his ability to throw to WRs who don`t have 5 yard cushions,His ability to withstand NFL hits,his ability to process reads.All those are on the field questions.College isn`t the NFL.

So now you’re not only arguing that his winning should be held against him, but that the actual success he showed in the field should be ignored. Man your all-consuming hate for the guy has really caused you to go all out berserker in trying to make up problems. It’s entertaining.[/QUOTE]

BS and nonsense.Glad you are entertained.I don`t hate the guy.I don`t see the Superduper can`t miss transcendent wonderboy QB that you Murrayites see.IF that beserker mode in your eyes then its your freaking problem.So feel free to continue to enjoy .

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Hoping he will be great is bucking history.It could happen..but the odds are against him being great.To me that is a unnecessary risk.Take Bosa or Q.Williams build a better defense.

Drafting any qb is hoping. The percent of successes are so low. You have to accept that with a QB.

 

[Harry]

Harry, were there any comments about his personality or in general how he's handled the pre-draft process? Not doing any drills, refusing to meet with some teams, seemingly letting his dad and his agent make most decisions for him etc.?

Guys won’t say that kind of stuff if it happened to their team. It’s proprietary. They won’t say it about other teams because it would be rumors. He had some similar issues in college, sort of entitled on some things I heard.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

@Ouchie-Z-Clown

Two separate points. I was mostly responding to K9 and you jumped in on my response to him.

Yes, it can have an impact on your team. 32m for Murray and 4m-8m cap hit for Rosen...Murray busts and that is going to hurt for years.

Pass on Murray and he becomes the next Mahomes while Rosen busts...that will hurt as well. However, you may have the next Joey Bosa or Aaron Donald (stretch I know but I threw in Mahomes).

Lastly, if Murray busts, we have given up 2 #1 picks, a 3rd, and a 5th (minus whatever we get for Rosen).

All valid points. If we recoup a 1st for Rosen then it’s just a 1, 3, and 5 - which what we would’ve lost if we stuck with Rosen and he busts.

Folks, there’s an art and a science to the draft for sure. But underlying those factors is the biggest determinant of all . . . LUCK. Every scenario we’ve discussed has luck as the largest driver. I find myself arguing in favor of kyler over and over again not because I know i want him - as I’ve stated repeatedly I still have no idea what I want out of this draft - but rather bc it seems, as Krang pointed out, the vast majority of arguments being made against kyler either seem extremely flimsy, lacking in logic, or as the draft draws nearer flat out panicked insanity from BW.

 

[ARZCardinals]

3 State Championships at 6A Texas
8 All time college records broken in 1 year
Best ever passing and running QB ever
Yep
He sucks
He beat every high school and college stat by Rosen by a mile
You want the lesser of the two
Keep up the good work

 

[BW52]

Drafting any qb is hoping. The percent of successes are so low. You have to accept that with a QB.

No kidding.Drafting a QB after not giving Rosen a chance to succeed with a actual NFL caliber supporting cast is risk that is unnecessary IMO.Thats why I prefer Bosa/Q.Williams.I .feel either of those two will be great additions to the defense .I would rather see what Rosen can do in a better situation and use the top pick on defense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

What if he flops and historically most short QBs fail.Would you be happy with a Flutie-like career for Murray?Would that justify being a #1 pick?IMO he has a better chance having a Flutie-like career than he does of having a Great career.

As I said previously, most QBs, regardless of size, have a greater chance at a less than flutie like career. Hell at present Rosen is likely not to reach a flutie like career. But that’s my point, QBs are crapshoot. Have to accept that when drafting one. I think it’s why Keim avoided for so long (lotta good that did him).