LoyaltyisaCurse
IF AND WHEN HEALTHY...
Ditching DJ Swear was a big mistake IMO.
What I Saw
- Thread starter Harry
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Jetstream Green
Kool Aid with a touch of vodka
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
Anyone who is pointing the finger at the defense is way out of line. The O had 6 chances inside the red zone and couldn't punch it in. Carson Palmer looked like toast against a pretty bad pass rush.
People were talking up this OL all offseason. I was wondering if they were seeing something I didn't. Just rampant hometown. Same ol' Cards, wetting the bed at 10 am.
What trade value do you really think Matthieu has on a massive long-term contract?
Garthshort
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cheesebeef, I see your point. BUT my point is that when you get older (as compared to three seasons ago) it takes longer to get 'game' ready. And David needs to get used to being hit. My hope is that CP and Larry will get better with time, as the season progresses.
NJCardFan
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The defenses problems are the same problems they've had for years; no pass rush. You give that stiff in Indy the same kind of time Stafford had yesterday and he'll pick us apart too. And I just don't get our blitzes. I mean, it's like the call is, "run as fast as you can toward the line, look for the first wrong colored jersey, and run directly into them."
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Mitch
Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Yes. Stafford, by using is long counts, could see pre-snap what the blitz calls were and made the correct audibles. Todd Bowles was much better at disguising and not giving away the blitzes.
RugbyMuffin
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+1
The worst thought I had yesterday was the following players are no longer what they once were. We will see if that is the case going forward, but ......woah, not good.
1. Tyrann Mathieu - The Honey Badger is officially dead. He has lost a step because of injuries and he didn't have one to lose.
2. John Brown - Guy is never going to be the player he was in 2015.
3. Mike Iupati - I have been a big supporter of the guy, but he is done. Our run game looked HORRIBLE.
4. Carson Palmer - Father time stays undefeated.
5. Karlos Dansby - Looks really slow.
At least when it comes to Iupati, Palmer, and Dansby, you realize they are stop gaps. But, John Brown, and Mathieu no longer being what they once were is catastrophic.
This team will be on the verge a a full gutting if these players keep trending downward.
Looks like our rested players were rusty, and not ready for NFL football.
Tough game to watch yesterday. But only the first.
Last edited:
WildBB
Yogi n da Bear
This will be a BIG question moving forward. Because CC ALWAYS showed up.
DVontel
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We had a great pass-rush last year, but Calais(who is a very good interior pass-rusher) left & now we have to find one again. Hoping Nkemdiche can fill that void.
82CardsGrad
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JeffGollin
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Agree with "fragility" comment. More of our guys were limping off the field than their guys. Our skill-players were outmuscled by them more than we out muscled them
Biggest areas of concern: Lions won about 80% of crunch-time battles (like converting 3rd downs). Cards maybe won 20%. Cards seemed to get lazy/complacent after the first 3 or 4 possessions and "played like zombies" for the rest of the game.
Palmer's mechanics under pressure were really awkward and resulted in too many floaters that gave defenders too much time to catch up to open men.
Tip your hat to Stafford - who was razor sharp in his ball placement.
Coordination betw Palmer and his receivers was 60% of what it needs to be.
Biggest areas of concern: Lions won about 80% of crunch-time battles (like converting 3rd downs). Cards maybe won 20%. Cards seemed to get lazy/complacent after the first 3 or 4 possessions and "played like zombies" for the rest of the game.
Palmer's mechanics under pressure were really awkward and resulted in too many floaters that gave defenders too much time to catch up to open men.
Tip your hat to Stafford - who was razor sharp in his ball placement.
Coordination betw Palmer and his receivers was 60% of what it needs to be.
Even Fitz looked slow
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
When properly led in stride, he showed he is still "fast enough"... But, there were a few plays where it appeared his lacked quickness to break away from the defender just enough to create some needed space. Though, I am holding out that judgement because a large part of me believes it was more on Palmer than on Fitz...
Son of RedRage
All Star
Are they looking legit, or are the Colts just that bad?
I hope you are right.. But at some point father time is gonna catch him.. My main premise was how slow he looked running in the open field on that 33 yard gain.. Not to say Fitz still can't be very affective...
DVontel
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The Colts for the past 2 years are honestly worse than the Jets without Andrew Luck. Honestly, without Andrew Luck since 2012, they would have the worst record in the NFL in that span.
RugbyMuffin
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+1. He is looking his age, still has enough to be good, but he does look slow. No doubt.
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
For sure... But as you know, Fitz was never a burner by any stretch. He was never gonna win any 100 yard dashes. His go-ahead TD late in the Super Bowl is a perfect example of what he can do - speed wise - when he's properly led. On that 33 yard gain, while it was a different route than the Super Bowl catch, I thought he made the most of it as the defender had the angle on him - unlike in the Super Bowl.
For me, what is the biggest bummer about Fitz is realizing he can no longer be counted on as a leaper...That's been the case for a few years now I guess, but there were a couple of plays yesterday that I know he would've made 3-4 years ago simply because of his ability to high-point the ball. Not the case any longer.
Mitch
Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Great points about, Fitz. Not sure if he can't leap anymore...but Fitz is more leery of protecting himself. He will still plane out for balls...but he's not as keen about high pointing the ball, for fear of getting undercut. Which speaks to why this week Glover Quin of the Lions mentioned how Fitz asked him and Darius Slay to hit him high, not low, and that he would pay the fines if necessary.
Mitch
Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Check this out, 82. Fitz had 5th fastest speed (ball carriers) in the NFL this week.
https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/top-plays/fastest-ball-carriers
82CardsGrad
7 x 70
Never saw those stats before... I can't say I'm entirely surprised though. If Larry caught a ball standing still, and then tried to sprint for more yards, he would never appear on this list. But, when properly led, he is absolutely fast enough...
I agree with the take of Fitz looking slower on that 30 yarder. As has been mentioned he has never been a burner, however he had what I would call effective long stride speed because well, I can't think of any other way to phrase it and still have it be a compliment.
When I saw him running yesterday it looked like he had a hundred different moving parts. It was almost Fred Flintstone like in that his feet seemed to be moving really fast but he wasn't going anywhere. 33 yards felt more like 80.
I just hope his hands don't go the same way of his legs. Take the one that hit the turf and bounced up and into the DBs arms. That is a tough, tough catch to make for sure, yet he used to bring in balls like that 9/10 times. I guess it might be unfair but I'm is used to seeing him catch anything that he gets his hands on.
Still love him though.
When I saw him running yesterday it looked like he had a hundred different moving parts. It was almost Fred Flintstone like in that his feet seemed to be moving really fast but he wasn't going anywhere. 33 yards felt more like 80.
I just hope his hands don't go the same way of his legs. Take the one that hit the turf and bounced up and into the DBs arms. That is a tough, tough catch to make for sure, yet he used to bring in balls like that 9/10 times. I guess it might be unfair but I'm is used to seeing him catch anything that he gets his hands on.
Still love him though.
AZCrazy
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As long as some corners of the league still regard him as one of the best pure defenders in the game, the answer is, 'something'.
Guys ... rewatch the 30 yarder and you see, fitz outrun Brown ... Fitz is still fast enough.
We lead till 9 minutes before the end, world isn't falling appart. We lost to a contender because we made to many mistakes.
Yesterday showed, that the margin of error against contender isn't that big. Our D lost a step in the 4th quarter and Stafford, till than not very impressiv, startet to pick them appart.
Some play calls by Arians and Bettcher in the last 10 minutes or more last 20 minutes (all TD at least) were ... somehow strange, like they didn't see what happend on the field.
The missed FG try and getting a FG in first half, was a bummer too, with a 20:13 lead our team would have played a bit different. But nonethless, many mistakes on Offense and in the last minutes D too where too on the coaching staff.
What baffeld me by rewatching the game, was that Bettcher was outcoached. The Lions O-line startet to stop the Middle of our DL one on one and the free OL and TE/RB/FB stopped or blocked or chipped the 2 Pass rushers, so many lanes did need to long to get to the QB. Bettcher didn't react and never dialed a delayed rush uppon the middle (since 1on1, there where big holes there and he could have gotten even bigger holes on purpose ...) and I think anyone would have sacked Stafford. 1 sack would prbobably have changed the outcome of this game. But we didn't react and suffered.
About the TD, yes not too many fault on the CB there, well thrown balls, you can't defend everything. Some faults are on some 3rd and long. What was strange, Bethel once was beat on 3 and 10, but I'm not totally sure since he was upset but not with himself. On the TD and other catches he was upset by himself and on that first TD he had not much chance, it was exactly thrown there where only the WR could get it, even if he was toe on toe with the WR he wouldn't had a big chance to defend it, he was a step behind after the break but was there to try to rip it out, so yes ... next time he will be there to start with.
So it is strange that he was uppset with the (41), and it seamed to me that they were playing zone, but at that point of game it doesn't make any sense at least if you think that 3 and long and zone D by a man to man rushing D, doesn't sound smart.
But back to the point, he didn't get any help and the Safty wasn't there where he should have taken the WR, Bethel was behind him and the safty some yards left of him.
Another big play against PP21 was 100% zone and the Safty wasn't there.
So for the 3 and long for Bethel I coulnd't read it good enough to me it was really zone and Bathea didn't go to the middle but stoped on a WR that was under cover by the ILB, Bethel was beat that bad because he got deep like he should and the catch was in the middle of the field, where in the zone, Bathea should have been. If it was zone, the Safty was totally out of position. But overall zone D doesn't seem to work with our players, didn't last year, doesn't this year.
So, what to take away:
Fitz is still Fitz, even some of you think otherwhise, but if you are double and tripple covered all day and most of the time all 2 or 3 hit your hands and your body ... you can't catch much.
And now for me to the play of the game:
Don't know how CP oversee a totally free Jaron Brown on that throw but it was the game for me.
3rd and long 6 minutes to go, 3 Defenders on Fitz, 1 on John Brown, 1 on Ellington 4 on the line fighting the O-line and colapsing the pocket after 4 sec, 1 Safty deep and 1 between CP and Gresham.
This play showed me that CP wasn't ready, it was a throw that was not very smart, to say it nice, but preseason or bad by any standards.
Okay Jaron Brown was shy 1 yard of a first down but no defender was on him, and 1 yard without a defender in 6 yards, normally is a sure thing. Fitz on the other hand stoud in between 3 guys that were already closing in on him.
By the way, Greshem had room behind him, if CP throws it over the defender between him and Gresham, that was also an easy first down and only 1 defender to beat for the TD, and Gresham can get you some yards after contact.
Overall bad decision by Palmer. Gresham and Jaron Brown would have been the right decision, throwing to Fitz vs 3 was totally nonsense, maybe some would say a rookie mistake. You can't throw to someone that is between 3 guys and they are closing in already. Fitz never had a chance to get that ball, CP risked a INT just because he didn't look. 4 better options where there two great ones, with a sure first down, both with a chance for a TD.
And that when the game is on the line 17:21
Totally different game with 1 and 10 and 6 minutes to go and down by 4. A long drive with a TD and you are up 3 and they have only about 3 minutes or 2 minutes left, different ballgame, even with so many misteaks before that, there was another misteak, that by pure fortune wasn't an INT.
Breaking down this game, you can state, with no doubt, that Carson Palmer ultimatly lost us the game. The O around him, was not great but not as bad as you might think by watching it live the first time. The O-line often kept him long enough clean and by that I mean over 4 seconds Brady, Brees, Rodgers throw 2 balls in that timeframe.
Palmer didn't get sacked often, but he had happy feets from the get go. He didn't stay focused and threw many balls in doulbe or tripple coverage, when there were open recievers often even wide open recievers. Jaron Brown, John Brown, JJ Nelson, Niklas and Gresham. Fitz rarely was open as DJ in the first half. The Lions "secret" to beat us was quite simple, stop Fitz and DJ. The rest was most of the time 1on1 with 1 safty deep or even free, because CP doesn't look at all.
If that, is all you need to do, to force CP to turn the ball over multiple times, than we can't win.
There are arguments that BA and Bettcher could have done a better job, put the players in better positions, but if Palmer can't come away with TD in at least 6 redzone apperances, and than don't convert on an 3rd and long when you need him too and he has two open guys to throw to, we have a big problem.
Yes the O-line didn't open up big holes for the run game, and that was a real problem for the running game, but CP turning balls over at that rate, was the downfall. We can life with 3 and outs and punting, we can't with turnovers that get them points or that cut our chances for at least a FG. I think with 2 more FG and a throw to Jaron Brown 6 minutes before the end of the game we win that game. It would have sealed the deal without a TD, with a TD and 3 minutes to go the lions would have been down by 30 - 21 2 scores, that doesn't sound realistic.
We gifted the Lions a win there.
But shoulda woulda coulda ... 0-1 it is, CP has to play way better, the rest of the team too.
We lead till 9 minutes before the end, world isn't falling appart. We lost to a contender because we made to many mistakes.
Yesterday showed, that the margin of error against contender isn't that big. Our D lost a step in the 4th quarter and Stafford, till than not very impressiv, startet to pick them appart.
Some play calls by Arians and Bettcher in the last 10 minutes or more last 20 minutes (all TD at least) were ... somehow strange, like they didn't see what happend on the field.
The missed FG try and getting a FG in first half, was a bummer too, with a 20:13 lead our team would have played a bit different. But nonethless, many mistakes on Offense and in the last minutes D too where too on the coaching staff.
What baffeld me by rewatching the game, was that Bettcher was outcoached. The Lions O-line startet to stop the Middle of our DL one on one and the free OL and TE/RB/FB stopped or blocked or chipped the 2 Pass rushers, so many lanes did need to long to get to the QB. Bettcher didn't react and never dialed a delayed rush uppon the middle (since 1on1, there where big holes there and he could have gotten even bigger holes on purpose ...) and I think anyone would have sacked Stafford. 1 sack would prbobably have changed the outcome of this game. But we didn't react and suffered.
About the TD, yes not too many fault on the CB there, well thrown balls, you can't defend everything. Some faults are on some 3rd and long. What was strange, Bethel once was beat on 3 and 10, but I'm not totally sure since he was upset but not with himself. On the TD and other catches he was upset by himself and on that first TD he had not much chance, it was exactly thrown there where only the WR could get it, even if he was toe on toe with the WR he wouldn't had a big chance to defend it, he was a step behind after the break but was there to try to rip it out, so yes ... next time he will be there to start with.
So it is strange that he was uppset with the (41), and it seamed to me that they were playing zone, but at that point of game it doesn't make any sense at least if you think that 3 and long and zone D by a man to man rushing D, doesn't sound smart.
But back to the point, he didn't get any help and the Safty wasn't there where he should have taken the WR, Bethel was behind him and the safty some yards left of him.
Another big play against PP21 was 100% zone and the Safty wasn't there.
So for the 3 and long for Bethel I coulnd't read it good enough to me it was really zone and Bathea didn't go to the middle but stoped on a WR that was under cover by the ILB, Bethel was beat that bad because he got deep like he should and the catch was in the middle of the field, where in the zone, Bathea should have been. If it was zone, the Safty was totally out of position. But overall zone D doesn't seem to work with our players, didn't last year, doesn't this year.
So, what to take away:
Fitz is still Fitz, even some of you think otherwhise, but if you are double and tripple covered all day and most of the time all 2 or 3 hit your hands and your body ... you can't catch much.
And now for me to the play of the game:
Don't know how CP oversee a totally free Jaron Brown on that throw but it was the game for me.
3rd and long 6 minutes to go, 3 Defenders on Fitz, 1 on John Brown, 1 on Ellington 4 on the line fighting the O-line and colapsing the pocket after 4 sec, 1 Safty deep and 1 between CP and Gresham.
This play showed me that CP wasn't ready, it was a throw that was not very smart, to say it nice, but preseason or bad by any standards.
Okay Jaron Brown was shy 1 yard of a first down but no defender was on him, and 1 yard without a defender in 6 yards, normally is a sure thing. Fitz on the other hand stoud in between 3 guys that were already closing in on him.
By the way, Greshem had room behind him, if CP throws it over the defender between him and Gresham, that was also an easy first down and only 1 defender to beat for the TD, and Gresham can get you some yards after contact.
Overall bad decision by Palmer. Gresham and Jaron Brown would have been the right decision, throwing to Fitz vs 3 was totally nonsense, maybe some would say a rookie mistake. You can't throw to someone that is between 3 guys and they are closing in already. Fitz never had a chance to get that ball, CP risked a INT just because he didn't look. 4 better options where there two great ones, with a sure first down, both with a chance for a TD.
And that when the game is on the line 17:21
Totally different game with 1 and 10 and 6 minutes to go and down by 4. A long drive with a TD and you are up 3 and they have only about 3 minutes or 2 minutes left, different ballgame, even with so many misteaks before that, there was another misteak, that by pure fortune wasn't an INT.
Breaking down this game, you can state, with no doubt, that Carson Palmer ultimatly lost us the game. The O around him, was not great but not as bad as you might think by watching it live the first time. The O-line often kept him long enough clean and by that I mean over 4 seconds Brady, Brees, Rodgers throw 2 balls in that timeframe.
Palmer didn't get sacked often, but he had happy feets from the get go. He didn't stay focused and threw many balls in doulbe or tripple coverage, when there were open recievers often even wide open recievers. Jaron Brown, John Brown, JJ Nelson, Niklas and Gresham. Fitz rarely was open as DJ in the first half. The Lions "secret" to beat us was quite simple, stop Fitz and DJ. The rest was most of the time 1on1 with 1 safty deep or even free, because CP doesn't look at all.
If that, is all you need to do, to force CP to turn the ball over multiple times, than we can't win.
There are arguments that BA and Bettcher could have done a better job, put the players in better positions, but if Palmer can't come away with TD in at least 6 redzone apperances, and than don't convert on an 3rd and long when you need him too and he has two open guys to throw to, we have a big problem.
Yes the O-line didn't open up big holes for the run game, and that was a real problem for the running game, but CP turning balls over at that rate, was the downfall. We can life with 3 and outs and punting, we can't with turnovers that get them points or that cut our chances for at least a FG. I think with 2 more FG and a throw to Jaron Brown 6 minutes before the end of the game we win that game. It would have sealed the deal without a TD, with a TD and 3 minutes to go the lions would have been down by 30 - 21 2 scores, that doesn't sound realistic.
We gifted the Lions a win there.
But shoulda woulda coulda ... 0-1 it is, CP has to play way better, the rest of the team too.
I wanted to respond to this but my brain hurts trying to decipher what it is you are trying to say. Man this was one tough read.
