What if Suns took Tyrese Haliburton?

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

he wanted to play uptempo that’s according to Windhorst that’s why he wanted to be in Sac.

listen is it the smartest thing to do, nope

but the kid wanted to be there

It does cast doubt into his intelligence . . . or the advice he was receiving.

 

[JCSunsfan]

It does cast doubt into his intelligence . . . or the advice he was receiving.

Yes. I wonder if we would have drafted him, had he shown a desire to be here.

So, if we HAD drafted Haliburton, I think it's highly likely that Cam Payne would still be on the roster. Stix would not be on the roster, so there would be no real difference there. Since Payne and Haliburton have almost the exact same /100 stats except that Payne is a better distributor and defender, Hali would be coming off the bench as the third pg. One of the guards we now have would probably not be on the roster.

I think we would have kept Carter. So either Galloway or ETwan would not be here.

We would be wondering if Hali was good enough to be PGOTF and we would be arguing whether Payne or Hali should be getting the minutes. We would also be arguing whether Hali is a pg or sg.

IOW. I don't think it would be making much of a difference right now. Just speculation of course, but that is what this entire thread is. And for all those who are convinced that Payne cannot possibly start on a championship team, I would argue that the jury is still WAY out on Hali as well.

 

[GatorAZ]

Suns fanboys may have thought that Halliburton was a PGOTF candidate, doesn't mean the Suns did.

So no more draft threads because we can’t talk about what we think prospects will become? Got it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yes. I wonder if we would have drafted him, had he shown a desire to be here.

So, if we HAD drafted Haliburton, I think it's highly likely that Cam Payne would still be on the roster. Stix would not be on the roster, so there would be no real difference there. Since Payne and Haliburton have almost the exact same /100 stats except that Payne is a better distributor and defender, Hali would be coming off the bench as the third pg. One of the guards we now have would probably not be on the roster.

I think we would have kept Carter. So either Galloway or ETwan would not be here.

We would be wondering if Hali was good enough to be PGOTF and we would be arguing whether Payne or Hali should be getting the minutes. We would also be arguing whether Hali is a pg or sg.

IOW. I don't think it would be making much of a difference right now. Just speculation of course, but that is what this entire thread is. And for all those who are convinced that Payne cannot possibly start on a championship team, I would argue that the jury is still WAY out on Hali as well.

I think Hali would’ve been our backup 2 guard this year and swung to backup pg when Payne was injured. He would’ve been our only guard off the bench with any size.

as for the jury being out, sure Hali doesn’t even have a full season under his belt whereas Payne has already failed at previous stops. I think Payne found his calling as a backup pg.

 

[taz02]

Now THAT I think we can agree on.

Although the Cam Johnson pick looks pretty good, and even Ayton is still a good pick, even if there is one guy you'd pick ahead of him in hindsight.

I don't know. If Ayton even slightly improves on his current run, it is a really close call. Admittedly, I don't watch the Mav's but Ayton's play "recently" has been a real game changer.

His defense is hard to quantify by stats and he clearly has the potential to really improve.

based on Ayton's "current" play, is everyone here still convinced Luka should have been the pick?

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm not sure why Cam Payne keeps being brought into this discussion. Monty would determine who plays if the Suns drafted Haliburton.

However, if one persists on comparing Payne and Haliburton there some things to consider:

1. Haliburton is a young 21. He turned 21 in February so there is more room for him to grow as a player. Payne is 26.

2. Haliburton is on a rookie contract and will be for a number of years. Payne is a free agent next season. He will want to get paid if he has a good postseason.

3. I really think the best comparison stats are these that compare the players straight up.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm...m=0&player_id1=payneca01&player_id2=halibty01

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm not sure why Cam Payne keeps being brought into this discussion. Monty would determine who plays if the Suns drafted Haliburton.

However, if one persists on comparing Payne and Haliburton there some things to consider:

1. Haliburton is a young 21. He turned 21 in February so there is more room for him to grow as a player. Payne is 26.

2. Haliburton is on a rookie contract and will be for a number of years. Payne is a free agent next season. He will want to get paid if he has a good postseason.

3. I really think the best comparison stats are these that compare the players straight up.

https://stathead.com/basketball/pcm...m=0&player_id1=payneca01&player_id2=halibty01

Well. Cam is brought into the discussion because they both play the same position and since the the question is "What if the Suns had drafted Hali" each player has an impact upon the other as far as what the rotation would be right now. My hunch is that Monty would go with the vet over the rookie fot pt. But thats just me.

 

[Mainstreet]

Well. Cam is brought into the discussion because they both play the same position and since the the question is "What if the Suns had drafted Hali" each player has an impact upon the other as far as what the rotation would be right now. My hunch is that Monty would go with the vet over the rookie fot pt. But thats just me.

The Suns had room for Paul, Payne, Haliburton and Carter on their roster.

I don't think the question of position is relevant. Draft the best player and go with it.

I agree with the commenters like Bill Simmons who think the Suns should have drafted Haliburton. Maybe someday we will find out there was a good reason the Suns passed on Haliburton. Until then, I will stick with the position the Suns should have drafted BPA (Haliburton).

 

[Chaplin]

So no more draft threads because we can’t talk about what we think prospects will become? Got it.

Yeah because that’s exactly what I meant. Geez, don’t lecture me about having discussions in a message board when you yourself have literally ignored the conversation.

 

[Chaplin]

The Suns had room for Paul, Payne, Haliburton and Carter on their roster.

I don't think the question of position is relevant.

What?? That is ridiculous.

 

[Mainstreet]

What?? That is ridiculous.

The Suns have two weaknesses: back point guard and a backup big man. Filling either position with more depth would have helped.

This is not the first time Duane Rankin has said it. I have said it as well. Let's hope neither position becomes a stumbling block but this is where the Suns are most vulnerable.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...pite-having-nbas-second-best-reco/7223153002/

 

[AzStevenCal]

.

The Suns have two weaknesses: back point guard and a backup big man. Filling either position with more depth would have helped.

This is not the first time Duane Rankin has said it. I have said it as well. Let's hope neither position becomes a stumbling block but this is where the Suns are most vulnerable.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...pite-having-nbas-second-best-reco/7223153002/

That article is in response to SAS's words about us being a player away but all Smith actually talked about was our lack of playoff experience. Not once did he mention where we lacked, positionally, just that we were too young and not playoff tested.

Almost every team has a position of concern (usually more than one) and we are no exception. But Stephen A is correct, our biggest weakness is likely to be our lack of playoff experience. When another team dials in on your weaknesses, it's a different ballgame. For us, it will likely be aimed at playing Booker and Ayton physically with the intention of frustrating them and getting them into foul trouble. Also, pulling Ayton away from the basket is a concern.

The plus on our side is that good defense doesn't usually go away in the postseason which could help keep us in games long enough for our key players to adjust to the way they are being attacked. I would not make us the favorites but anyone just writing us off is not paying attention.

As I've said before, we can't beat a fully healthy Nets or Lakers team and we might be slightly behind the Clippers and the 76ers but we're right there with a few other teams, any one of which is capable of winning it all with a little luck if the two favorites are at less than full strength.

 

[Cheesebeef]

.


That article is in response to SAS's words about us being a player away but all Smith actually talked about was our lack of playoff experience. Not once did he mention where we lacked, positionally, just that we were too young and not playoff tested.

Almost every team has a position of concern (usually more than one) and we are no exception. But Stephen A is correct, our biggest weakness is likely to be our lack of playoff experience. When another team dials in on your weaknesses, it's a different ballgame. For us, it will likely be aimed at playing Booker and Ayton physically with the intention of frustrating them and getting them into foul trouble. Also, pulling Ayton away from the basket is a concern.

The plus on our side is that good defense doesn't usually go away in the postseason which could help keep us in games long enough for our key players to adjust to the way they are being attacked. I would not make us the favorites but anyone just writing us off is not paying attention.

As I've said before, we can't beat a fully healthy Nets or Lakers team and we might be slightly behind the Clippers and the 76ers but we're right there with a few other teams, any one of which is capable of winning it all with a little luck.

I'd say we're right behind the Clippers, but I'd put us at even or even slightly ahead of the Sixers. There's something about the mental makeup of that team I'm not totally buying.

 

[Mainstreet]

.


That article is in response to SAS's words about us being a player away but all Smith actually talked about was our lack of playoff experience. Not once did he mention where we lacked, positionally, just that we were too young and not playoff tested.

Almost every team has a position of concern (usually more than one) and we are no exception. But Stephen A is correct, our biggest weakness is likely to be our lack of playoff experience. When another team dials in on your weaknesses, it's a different ballgame. For us, it will likely be aimed at playing Booker and Ayton physically with the intention of frustrating them and getting them into foul trouble. Also, pulling Ayton away from the basket is a concern.

The plus on our side is that good defense doesn't usually go away in the postseason which could help keep us in games long enough for our key players to adjust to the way they are being attacked. I would not make us the favorites but anyone just writing us off is not paying attention.

As I've said before, we can't beat a fully healthy and intact Nets or Lakers team and we might be slightly behind the Clippers and the 76ers but we're right there with a few other teams, any one of which is capable of winning it all with a little luck.

This is not the first time Duane Rankin has said it. He even said it in a podcast not long ago.

I'm not one to follow Stephen A. Smith. As you mention, he didn't even name a position.

The Suns are most vulnerable at the backup 4/5 position. Still improving the point guard position would have been a step in the right.

Personally I'm not going to put the Suns behind any team until they prove otherwise in the playoffs.

 

[GatorAZ]

Yeah because that’s exactly what I meant. Geez, don’t lecture me about having discussions in a message board when you yourself have literally ignored the conversation.

Oh the irony.

 

[Chaplin]

This is not the first time Duane Rankin has said it. He even said it in a podcast not long ago.

I'm not one to follow Stephen A. Smith. As you mention, he didn't even name a position.

The Suns are most vulnerable at the backup 4/5 position. Still improving the point guard position would have been a step in the right.

Personally I'm not going to put the Suns behind any team until they prove otherwise in the playoffs.

Um, you do know we drafted what was thought to be a backup 4/5, right? He's definitely not good enough to be but that was CLEARLY what they were going for on draft night.

 

[Chaplin]

Oh the irony.

Sorry sir.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Um, you do know we drafted what was thought to be a backup 4/5, right? He's definitely not good enough to be but that was CLEARLY what they were going for on draft night.

I definitely think they believed he would be able to contribute this year. You ultimately don't know for sure until you see them in real NBA games.

 

[Chaplin]

I definitely think they believed he would be able to contribute this year. You ultimately don't know for sure until you see them in real NBA games.

Exactly. For us fans, that obviously hasn't been good enough, but it is what it is.

 

[Mainstreet]

Um, you do know we drafted what was thought to be a backup 4/5, right? He's definitely not good enough to be but that was CLEARLY what they were going for on draft night.

Always draft... Best Player Available.

When you draft for need, "CLEARLY" see what happens.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Exactly. For us fans, that obviously hasn't been good enough, but it is what it is.

The one silver lining with Jalen's season is that he is still young and didn't have the easiest transition to the league.

The last 10 years or so have sapped a lot of my patience for waiting on young players to develop, but I am certainly willing to wait until year two to start writing this guy off.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Always draft... Best Player Available.

When you draft for need, "CLEARLY" see what happens.

Even if said player doesn't want to play for you and is going to be your 3rd string PG? If we were in serious need of a 2nd string PG or Hali never had his agent tell teams not to draft him than I would be right there on the "should have drafted Haliburton" train, but the combination of having Payne and him not wanting us to draft him is enough for me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Always draft... Best Player Available.

When you draft for need, "CLEARLY" see what happens.

Yup. I think a GREAT example of why is when Cleveland drafted kj years ago. They had mark price. Didn’t need a pg. we’re drafting 7th. Kj was clearly the best available player, so they drafted him. They were able to turn him into Larry nance, thereby filling their one remaining need.

 

[Mainstreet]

Even if said player doesn't want to play for you and is going to be your 3rd string PG? If we were in serious need of a 2nd string PG or Hali never had his agent tell teams not to draft him than I would be right there on the "should have drafted Haliburton" train, but the combination of having Payne and him not wanting us to draft him is enough for me.

I've heard rumors and conjecture but I've never seen anything that resembles documented fact.

The Suns needed another point guard because it was unknown if Cam Payne would be a solid contributor outside of eight games in the bubble. Whether Haliburton was 2nd or 3rd on the depth charge was a decision for Monty. The point is Haliburton was the BPA at #10 and as a plus, he filled a position of need.

Jalen Smith was one of the physically less ready to play players in the draft. If James Jones wanted an immediate contributor he drafted the wrong player and I like Stix. His body is simply not ready for the NBA pounding.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

The one silver lining with Jalen's season is that he is still young and didn't have the easiest transition to the league.

The last 10 years or so have sapped a lot of my patience for waiting on young players to develop, but I am certainly willing to wait until year two to start writing this guy off.

It’s for sure too early to write him off.