What IS best for the Cardinals?

moklerman

Rise from the Ashes III
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Posts
5,318
Reaction score
811
Location
Bakersfield, CA
I've been trying to consider this situation from all angles. I can see the logic of establishing a standard in contract negotiations. I can see paying Warner and/or Boldin more money out of loyalty and reward. I can see going with Leinart next year and hoping for the best.

There are perfectly reasonable arguments to be made on the many sides of these situations.

But a very possible scenario that is wrought with pitfalls is quickly beginning to materialize. Let's say the Cards and Warner just can't get something done and it's deemed best for all involved to say thanks for the memories and part ways.

So Leinart is again the guy for the upcoming season. The Cardinals are going to have to a) run the offense like they did in '08 but without Haley, without Edge(we can all assume he's gone, right?) and with Leinart in there taking all the hits that Warner took. Or b) Whis implements "his" offense since he will be calling the plays, which hasn't had much success these last two years.

Even if Warner came back, it's going to be a much tougher year this year for the Cardinals. With Leinart, it's going to be tough but with growing pains added on top.

Coming off of the Super Bowl and a magical run, what's it going to do to the "Cardinals"(fans, media, players, etc.) if they struggle in '09? What will it mean to struggle after making all these decisions that were for the better of the team? How will Leinart be perceived if the team gets to the Super Bowl with Warner and then doesn't with Leinart?

Now, I'm not hoping the Cardinals struggle but the reality is, most Super Bowl losers are in for a tough season. That being the case, if Warner was at the helm would it make the transition easier or more acceptable to go to Leinart in that way? If Warner is not re-signed in the way that it's shaping out, isn't Leinart going to forever be in the shadow of Warner's 2008 playoff run?

Even if the Cardinals have to spend a little more than they had hoped, I think it would be best to have Warner take the brunt of a tough year and let Leinart come in in relief. That way the team doesn't look bad, Leinart isn't forever compared to the memory of 2008 and if the team does well with Warner again they get their money's worth.

Leinart may come in and be Steve Young to Warner's Montana but even Young, with all of his success has never gotten over not being loved as much as Montana.

I suppose this is just an extension of what I thought in preseason though. The team should ride Warner's success until he falters and then Leinart can come in clean and be given some rope to get up to speed. If Leinart is put in a position where he has to replace Warner from 2008, I think it will be hard for him to live up to it.
 

Cody

i love defense
Joined
May 3, 2005
Posts
901
Reaction score
0
start leinart. we need to see what he can do eventually anyways. why not get that started now? we can save the money to make the team better in other areas. if warner starts this year we will just have to worry about the same thing next year. either way we need to see if leinarts our man, so why not find out now and save the money for for an upgrade in another position?
 
Last edited:

green machine

I rule at posting
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Posts
6,126
Reaction score
11
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I've been trying to consider this situation from all angles. I can see the logic of establishing a standard in contract negotiations. I can see paying Warner and/or Boldin more money out of loyalty and reward. I can see going with Leinart next year and hoping for the best.

There are perfectly reasonable arguments to be made on the many sides of these situations.

But a very possible scenario that is wrought with pitfalls is quickly beginning to materialize. Let's say the Cards and Warner just can't get something done and it's deemed best for all involved to say thanks for the memories and part ways.

So Leinart is again the guy for the upcoming season. The Cardinals are going to have to a) run the offense like they did in '08 but without Haley, without Edge(we can all assume he's gone, right?) and with Leinart in there taking all the hits that Warner took. Or b) Whis implements "his" offense since he will be calling the plays, which hasn't had much success these last two years.

Even if Warner came back, it's going to be a much tougher year this year for the Cardinals. With Leinart, it's going to be tough but with growing pains added on top.

Coming off of the Super Bowl and a magical run, what's it going to do to the "Cardinals"(fans, media, players, etc.) if they struggle in '09? What will it mean to struggle after making all these decisions that were for the better of the team? How will Leinart be perceived if the team gets to the Super Bowl with Warner and then doesn't with Leinart?

Now, I'm not hoping the Cardinals struggle but the reality is, most Super Bowl losers are in for a tough season. That being the case, if Warner was at the helm would it make the transition easier or more acceptable to go to Leinart in that way? If Warner is not re-signed in the way that it's shaping out, isn't Leinart going to forever be in the shadow of Warner's 2008 playoff run?

Even if the Cardinals have to spend a little more than they had hoped, I think it would be best to have Warner take the brunt of a tough year and let Leinart come in in relief. That way the team doesn't look bad, Leinart isn't forever compared to the memory of 2008 and if the team does well with Warner again they get their money's worth.

Leinart may come in and be Steve Young to Warner's Montana but even Young, with all of his success has never gotten over not being loved as much as Montana.

I suppose this is just an extension of what I thought in preseason though. The team should ride Warner's success until he falters and then Leinart can come in clean and be given some rope to get up to speed. If Leinart is put in a position where he has to replace Warner from 2008, I think it will be hard for him to live up to it.

So it's best to pay a guy 30+ million for two years expecting him to be replaced? That doesn't sound like a good plan to me.
 

Cody

i love defense
Joined
May 3, 2005
Posts
901
Reaction score
0
start leinart. we need to see what he can do eventually anyways. why not get that started now? we can save the money to make the team better in other areas. if warner starts this year we will just have to worry about the same thing next year. either way we need to see if leinarts our man, so why not find out now and save the money for for an upgrade in another position?


i agree with this
 
OP
OP
moklerman

moklerman

Rise from the Ashes III
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Posts
5,318
Reaction score
811
Location
Bakersfield, CA
So it's best to pay a guy 30+ million for two years expecting him to be replaced? That doesn't sound like a good plan to me.
I don't think it will take $30M+ first of all. Second, if they wind up paying him for both years that means he had another pro-bowl campaign in 2009. Everyone agrees the money's worth it as long as he keeps producing, right?

If he falters, gets injured or a combination of things, the team is on the hook for just his '09 salary and Leinart still has plenty of time to come in and get evaluated.
 
OP
OP
moklerman

moklerman

Rise from the Ashes III
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Posts
5,318
Reaction score
811
Location
Bakersfield, CA
i agree with this
Believe it or not, I already assumed you agreed with yourself.

I don't agree with the idea that the team has to know what more it has in Leinart. It would be nice to know but I wouldn't dump a pro-bowl QB to find out. Not just for the sake of it.
 

bg7brd

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Posts
2,189
Reaction score
99
The big dilemma in this whole thing is that Leinart has a 15 million dollar jump after this season. That means we'll be on the hook for approx. 30 million for both Warner and Leinart next year if Kurt has his way. It seems to me that one of them has to go this year. If we re-sign Kurt then I expect Leinart to be traded. We would have to trade him this year because of his cap friendly number and then if he works out for the other team they can restructure his contract to alleviate the big hit. We probably couldn't trade him next year with his big salary so we would have to eat it or cut him.

So my question is, would Detroit be better off trading their 2nd for Leinart and going OT and defense in the first? That way Whiz would be able to draft HIS QB and have him apprentice under Warner for 2 years. It makes sense from a salary cap stand point.

The other alternative would be to let Warner walk and put his cap numbers into a running game and defense. We might suffer the first year but in the long run we should be okay. If we want to win consistently we have to start relying less on the offense and more on the defense.
 
Last edited:

IAWarnerFan

Warnerphile, but a Cards fan!
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Posts
3,462
Reaction score
0
Location
Iowa
The best situation for us would be Kurt Warner and Anquan Boldin taking the offers that are on the table right now. I'm very tired of this situation not going anywhere and something needs to happen. :(
 
OP
OP
moklerman

moklerman

Rise from the Ashes III
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Posts
5,318
Reaction score
811
Location
Bakersfield, CA
We probably couldn't trade him next year with his big salary so we would have to eat it or cut him.
I think the Cardinals are going to ask him to restructure no matter what.
 

bg7brd

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Posts
2,189
Reaction score
99
I can't imagine Leinart being happy sitting on the bench for another 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised if he refused to restructure. That way he gets his big money or he's released and free to sign with anyone.
 

IAWarnerFan

Warnerphile, but a Cards fan!
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Posts
3,462
Reaction score
0
Location
Iowa
I can't imagine Leinart being happy sitting on the bench for another 2 years. I wouldn't be surprised if he refused to restructure. That way he gets his big money or he's released and free to sign with anyone.
And if Warner were to resign here and Leinart took those actions he'd force our FO's hands. We have St. Pierre if he doesn't want to restructure. :grabs:
 

bg7brd

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Posts
2,189
Reaction score
99
And if Warner were to resign here and Leinart took those actions he'd force our FO's hands. We have St. Pierre if he doesn't want to restructure. :grabs:

That's why I think we'll trade him if Warner signs. At least we would get something for him as opposed to releasing him.
 

IAWarnerFan

Warnerphile, but a Cards fan!
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Posts
3,462
Reaction score
0
Location
Iowa
That's why I think we'll trade him if Warner signs. At least we would get something for him as opposed to releasing him.
Agreed! I was with Mitch when he posted this suggestion in a few of his threads. Now Kurt Warner has made a mess of things by wanting more $ than the Cardinals were willing to give, even after they reportedly uped their offer from $8-10M to $10-12M.
 

bg7brd

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Posts
2,189
Reaction score
99
Don't get me wrong, I like Leinart and think he will be a good QB but I just can't see us going into next season with both Kurt and Matt and that big escalator looming.
 

D-Dogg

A Whole New World
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Posts
45,194
Reaction score
1,477
Location
In The End Zone
We'd be stupid to trade Leinart. We don't know what Kurt will be like next season, and Leinart doesn't have high trade value due to not playing much. Sure, we could get a late round draft pick, but really? Everyone not named Mitch would be terrified if Brian St. Pierre was the starting QB from week 4 on.
 

IAWarnerFan

Warnerphile, but a Cards fan!
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Posts
3,462
Reaction score
0
Location
Iowa
Don't get me wrong, I like Leinart and think he will be a good QB but I just can't see us going into next season with both Kurt and Matt and that big escalator looming.
Agreed and Leinart very well may be great some day, but how long until he's as good as Kurt Warner remains to be seen. He will be getting close to starter money next year even without his incentives.
 

IAWarnerFan

Warnerphile, but a Cards fan!
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Posts
3,462
Reaction score
0
Location
Iowa
We'd be stupid to trade Leinart. We don't know what Kurt will be like next season, and Leinart doesn't have high trade value due to not playing much. Sure, we could get a late round draft pick, but really? Everyone not named Mitch would be terrified if Brian St. Pierre was the starting QB from week 4 on.
If we traded Leinart, we'd have to find another QB.
 

D-Dogg

A Whole New World
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2003
Posts
45,194
Reaction score
1,477
Location
In The End Zone
Agreed and Leinart very well may be great some day, but how long until he's as good as Kurt Warner remains to be seen. He will be getting close to starter money next year even without his incentives.

3.7 million is his salary in 2009.
 
OP
OP
moklerman

moklerman

Rise from the Ashes III
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Posts
5,318
Reaction score
811
Location
Bakersfield, CA
That's why I think we'll trade him if Warner signs. At least we would get something for him as opposed to releasing him.
I don't think so. If they were willing to trade Leinart they wouldn't being playing such a game of hardball with Warner. If they are content with moving Leinart by signing Warner, then Warner's contract wouldn't be an issue and they would have offered something in the middle($12?) instead of drawing a line in the sand.
 

IAWarnerFan

Warnerphile, but a Cards fan!
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Posts
3,462
Reaction score
0
Location
Iowa
I don't think so. If they were willing to trade Leinart they wouldn't being playing such a game of hardball with Warner. If they are content with moving Leinart by signing Warner, then Warner's contract wouldn't be an issue and they would have offered something in the middle($12?) instead of drawing a line in the sand.
They reportedly offered $10-12M after first offering $8-10M. I can't blame them for only wanting to take such a cap hit for a starting QB.
 

bg7brd

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Posts
2,189
Reaction score
99
We'd be stupid to trade Leinart. We don't know what Kurt will be like next season, and Leinart doesn't have high trade value due to not playing much. Sure, we could get a late round draft pick, but really? Everyone not named Mitch would be terrified if Brian St. Pierre was the starting QB from week 4 on.

Do you honestly think Leinart will happy riding the pine for another 2 tears? I'm almost certain that the minute Warner signs a new deal with the Cards Leinart's camp will be calling for a trade. If we don't trade him this year it will be almost impossible to trade him next year with his 15 million dollar escalator. Leinart is a good QB and a precedent has been set with the Cassel trade. My thought was that we could get the Lions 2nd pick for him. With that pick we could draft Freeman(or someone else that Whiz likes) and he could sit and learn for 2 years.
 
OP
OP
moklerman

moklerman

Rise from the Ashes III
Joined
Mar 23, 2005
Posts
5,318
Reaction score
811
Location
Bakersfield, CA
They reportedly offered $10-12M after first offering $8-10M. I can't blame them for only wanting to take such a cap hit for a starting QB.
Like I've said many times, $8M is a pay CUT. I haven't heard the offer of $12. Not for two years anyway. Was it $12M the first year and $8M the second? I haven't seen anything more than $20M total and a willingness to go a little more than $10M per year. I don't know what is mean by "a little" in this context though.
 

bg7brd

Hall of Famer
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Posts
2,189
Reaction score
99
I don't think so. If they were willing to trade Leinart they wouldn't being playing such a game of hardball with Warner. If they are content with moving Leinart by signing Warner, then Warner's contract wouldn't be an issue and they would have offered something in the middle($12?) instead of drawing a line in the sand.

I think what gives the Cards strength in this is that they can go either way. If Warner signs a reasonable deal then great, if not, they have plan "B". Either way, I just don't see both Kurt and Matt both on this team next year.
 

Latest posts

Staff online

Forum statistics

Threads
560,070
Posts
5,469,813
Members
6,338
Latest member
61_Shasta
Top