What is the plan?

[SunnyBaller]

I disagree Chap but regardless it was NOT intended to be hyperbole. I seriously doubt he'd even start for a single team if he'd been drafted outside of the lottery and there are a lot of teams he wouldn't even get off the bench for. He dominates for very short periods but it's not an exaggeration to say he has little to no positive impact the rest of the time. There are players that don't put up even half his numbers that contribute more to the outcome than he does.

And note that I'm talking about the Ayton of today, the Ayton that started the season was a little more involved. So I'm hoping that the rookie wall has a lot to do with what's going on right now.

Ok I know people are frustrated because Ayton was our first #1 over all pick and he hasn't just took the league by storm here but I haven't seen alot of posts I have disagreed with more , Ayton is better than alot of starting centers now let alone their backups, to say he wouldn't even get time off the bench for several teams is just plain laughable. First off no one on Phoenix technically contributes to winning basketball sadly (as evidence of their record) and second he is the most miss used #1 pick I think I've ever seen. The more I watch this year the more I think Igor is just bitter they picked ayton over doncic . If Ayton was on most other teams he would have better stats then he does now and his defense would even look better because he wouldn't have to help out Booker or what ever miss match we have against the opposing PF EVERY possession.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Ok I know people are frustrated because Ayton was our first #1 over all pick and he hasn't just took the league by storm here but I haven't seen alot of posts I have disagreed with more , Ayton is better than alot of starting centers now let alone their backups, to say he wouldn't even get time off the bench for several teams is just plain laughable. First off no one on Phoenix technically contributes to winning basketball sadly (as evidence of their record) and second he is the most miss used #1 pick I think I've ever seen. The more I watch this year the more I think Igor is just bitter they picked ayton over doncic . If Ayton was on most other teams he would have better stats then he does now and his defense would even look better because he wouldn't have to help out Booker or what ever miss match we have against the opposing PF EVERY possession.

Really? How many starting centers has he outplayed? How many backups have gone to town on him? And you really think Igor is trying to sabotage his own career because he didn't draft Luka? And if it's Booker's fault why was he even worse when Devin was out?

I still like Ayton and I'm less upset with his rookie season than many posters here. I just think he's greatly overrated by the fans that think we should be so much better because we added the number one pick. We added a number one pick that is still pretty raw despite the ease with which he scores and rebounds when he's putting forth the effort. He will be a very good player but like most 20 year old rookies, he's more a liability than an asset when he plays the game. And, like I said earlier, I think some (hopefully most) of his problems stem from conditioning and having hit the rookie wall.

 

[SunnyBaller]

Really? How many starting centers has he outplayed? How many backups have gone to town on him? And you really think Igor is trying to sabotage his own career because he didn't draft Luka? And if it's Booker's fault why was he even worse when Devin was out?

I still like Ayton and I'm less upset with his rookie season than many posters here. I just think he's greatly overrated by the fans that think we should be so much better because we added the number one pick. We added a number one pick that is still pretty raw despite the ease with which he scores and rebounds when he's putting forth the effort. He will be a very good player but like most 20 year old rookies, he's more a liability than an asset when he plays the game. And, like I said earlier, I think some (hopefully most) of his problems stem from conditioning and having hit the rookie wall.

The sabotage thing wasn't really serious just a random thought I've had once or twice this year while watching him out at the three line for 50+% of offensive possessions in some games, and ya I'd put him above alot of starting centers actually when he's playing man or actually gets the ball he's dominated alot of starters this year, and like I said with better defenders around him backups and starters don't have anywhere near those stats against him, hes not good at help defense but expecting him to guard his man and Booker's man or his man and the other teams PF is not a possible task for a good defender let alone ayton that's why teams attack that every play. And why was he not better when Booker was out? Really ha? Look at Booker's replacement Crawford or okobo I wonder why. Booker is miss used just like ayton . He should be a clay Thompson role , nothing else. Im not saying he doesn't have things to work on but ya defense is a team concept not individual and I'd say he's only responsible for maybe a little more than half the stats put against him

 

[BC867]

Devin Booker. 38% from three last year. 32% from three this year. With the volume he shoots, and his being first option in our offense, this is the most pertinent variable I can find. I am pretty confident that if Book was shooting 40% from three this year, we would have 5-6 more wins at least.

The most obvious thing about the defense of every team the Suns play is double-teaming Booker, who is our best shooter AND our best facilitator, resulting in bad stats and bad performances. And his missing a lot of time, with no Point Guard to back him up.

What it takes to be better than the Suns in every game -- not some games, or some opponents, whether at home or on the road -- is so simple . . . well, look at the standings. And, worse of all, a very predominantly young team learning to adjust mentally to losing -- every night. It takes its toll.

 

[Willie D]

... And, worse of all, a very predominantly young team learning to adjust mentally to losing -- every night. It takes its toll.

I don't know if anyone can "adjust" to losing. coaching and upper management seem resigned to this fate. But it doesn't sit well with most fans and I'll bet a paycheck it doesn't sit wellwith most of their players, either. Unless the Suns have amassed a cadre who are just playing for the money and given imprimatur to do so, it's just a sad spectacle.

At this point, I've given up. No more a Suns fan, even though I've gone to games dating back to the Coliseum in 1982. Good luck, Bobby Sarver. Change the logo to a tanker truck. 'Cause everyone knows they are choking on a chicken bone. Either because of your intentional incompetence, or because you suck as an owner for tolerating this sort of knee-bent running about and dancing behavior.

Bye bye, Suns.

 

[Yuma]

What is the plan?

I think of Apocalpyse Now, when they stumble onto a battlefront that is total chaos and Charlie Sheen asks who the CO is, and the solder replies, I thought you were? I get the feeling the Suns are seat of the pants, total no plan just making it up as they go along.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Really? How many starting centers has he outplayed? How many backups have gone to town on him? And you really think Igor is trying to sabotage his own career because he didn't draft Luka? And if it's Booker's fault why was he even worse when Devin was out?

I still like Ayton and I'm less upset with his rookie season than many posters here. I just think he's greatly overrated by the fans that think we should be so much better because we added the number one pick. We added a number one pick that is still pretty raw despite the ease with which he scores and rebounds when he's putting forth the effort. He will be a very good player but like most 20 year old rookies, he's more a liability than an asset when he plays the game. And, like I said earlier, I think some (hopefully most) of his problems stem from conditioning and having hit the rookie wall.

NO ONE is saying the above. People we should be at least be a little better, but more importantly, we shouldn't be A HELL OF A LOT WORSE, which we somehow are this season.

And before you go into what's become a real of excuses for this year of having no PG, no PF, injuries, a first year coach who just put in his system, organizational upheaval, guess what... they literally had ALL OF THAT LAST YEAR.

No PG last year? Oh... yeah, our PG demanded a trade after two games! Check!

No PF last year? Bender/Chriss?!) Check!

Booker and Warren miss a bunch of games with injuries last year? Check!

Organizational upheaval last year? Let's see, three games into the season we had our PG demand a trade and a Head Coach fired. Check!

First year coach who just put in his system with a bunch young players... DOUBLE CHECK! Because Triano didn't even have a full off-season to implement his plan like Koko did.

And yet, with all that disaster last year... they were still somehow better... under almost EXACTLY THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES.

For them to not only be a lot worse than last year, but to be keep getting WORSE AS THE SEASON GOES ON, you have to start looking at the head coach, who has similar circumstances, and has watched the team devolve from pretty bad to flat out terrible in the second half of the season.

 

[AzStevenCal]

NO ONE is saying the above. People we should be at least be a little better, but more importantly, we shouldn't be A HELL OF A LOT WORSE, which we somehow are this season.

And before you go into what's become a real of excuses for this year of having no PG, no PF, injuries, a first year coach who just put in his system, organizational upheaval, guess what... they literally had ALL OF THAT LAST YEAR.

No PG last year? Oh... yeah, our PG demanded a trade after two games! Check!

No PF last year? Bender/Chriss?!) Check!

Booker and Warren miss a bunch of games with injuries last year? Check!

Organizational upheaval last year? Let's see, three games into the season we had our PG demand a trade and a Head Coach fired. Check!

First year coach who just put in his system with a bunch young players... DOUBLE CHECK! Because Triano didn't even have a full off-season to implement his plan like Koko did.

And yet, with all that disaster last year... they were still somehow better... under almost EXACTLY THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES.

For them to not only be a lot worse than last year, but to be keep getting WORSE AS THE SEASON GOES ON, you have to start looking at the head coach, who has similar circumstances, and has watched the team devolve from pretty bad to flat out terrible in the second half of the season.

Oh I think they have. They haven't put numbers on it but it sure seemed to be the message. And I've said several times that we should be a little better than we are so if that's all they're saying I've wasted some time here (like I haven't done that before). I see several reasons that this team could justifiably be worse than last season but it doesn't matter, we are worse than we should be.

 

[AzStevenCal]

What is the plan?

I think of Apocalpyse Now, when they stumble onto a battlefront that is total chaos and Charlie Sheen asks who the CO is, and the solder replies, I thought you were? I get the feeling the Suns are seat of the pants, total no plan just making it up as they go along.

We seem under-equipped. I suggest we consult the Book of Armaments.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

We seem under-equipped. I suggest we consult the Book of Armaments.

We could use the holy hand grenade of Antioch right about now.

 

[Covert Rain]

We could use the holy hand grenade of Antioch right about now.

Once the number three, being the third number, be reached,
then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.

 

[Willie D]

What is the plan?

I think of Apocalpyse Now, when they stumble onto a battlefront that is total chaos and Charlie Sheen asks who the CO is, and the solder replies, I thought you were? I get the feeling the Suns are seat of the pants, total no plan just making it up as they go along.

Interesting reference to the Do Lung Bridge scene. Nice.

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Once the number three, being the third number, be reached,
then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch towards thy foe, who being naughty in My sight, shall snuff it.

FOOOOUR IS RIGHT OUT!

 

[Hoop Head]

Dudley has been talking about his last stint in Phoenix on Twitter today....


I'll post screenshots because the conversation involves way too many tweets to post links to. Here is a link to his twitter account though, if anyone wants to go there and read everything or just see things for themselves. https://twitter.com/JaredDudley619


#1

You must be registered for see images attach

#2, this is response to last tweet on the above image...

You must be registered for see images attach

And this is his final thoughts on things,

You must be registered for see images attach

found it interesting we brought him in as a starter and then he was sat for Chriss and told after a month and a half into that first season he was basically done.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns should be improved this season. I don't see any way around it. All one has to do is look at last season's roster. I'm not putting the blame on a particular player.

As I see it, the Suns have underachieved this season. How much they should have been improved can be debated but they should be better.

I do think the Suns having a new coach has something to do with the losing. Ultimately the buck stops with the coach because the Suns have better talent this season.

Does this mean the Suns should fire Igor. I'm not ready for this just yet. I'm so tired of the revolving door that is the Suns. I'm hoping if the Suns fill some holes and Igor realizes he is misusing Ayton, things will be better.

That's a lot of hope. I guess if the Suns had a better coach lined up for next season, I'd be more willing to make a change.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Dudley has been talking about his last stint in Phoenix on Twitter today....


I'll post screenshots because the conversation involves way too many tweets to post links to. Here is a link to his twitter account though, if anyone wants to go there and read everything or just see things for themselves. https://twitter.com/JaredDudley619


#1

You must be registered for see images attach

#2, this is response to last tweet on the above image...

You must be registered for see images attach

And this is his final thoughts on things,

You must be registered for see images attach

found it interesting we brought him in as a starter and then he was sat for Chriss and told after a month and a half into that first season he was basically done.

here's my question with the 4-5 veteran plan... how in the world are we going to do that? Everyone acknowledges that a) we don't have a lot of cap room and b) we'll have to overpay to get any FA worth a lick.

So, how is it feasible to to get 4-5 solid veterans with 20 million in cap room and knowing that we'll have to overpay to get anyone in here?

Maybe we're able to deal Warren for a solid veteran... but, isn't that what Warren already is? maybe they earmark Warren's money for someone who plays defense. Okay, that's how you get one solid veteran in.

Then do we split the 20 million in cap room (assuming we don't stretch Johnson) for two veterans? If so, what kind of FAs are we going to be able to get for 10 million a piece? Even if we're able to do that, that gets you...

eh, forget it. trying to figure out a Suns "plan" is an exercise in futility, mostly because they almost never accomplish what they set out to do.

 

[Chaplin]

The Suns plan isn’t even a plan. It’s management double-speak. They can’t reveal the plan to us because they either don’t have one or it’s even worse.

I was really high in the Igor hire, but I’ve completely flipped. I don’t think he brings anything at all to the team. And if he’s ineffective we shouldn’t continue to pay him.

 

[Yuma]

We could use the holy hand grenade of Antioch right about now.

You count to four? LOL!

 

[1Sun]

The Suns plan isn’t even a plan. It’s management double-speak. They can’t reveal the plan to us because they either don’t have one or it’s even worse.

I was really high in the Igor hire, but I’ve completely flipped. I don’t think he brings anything at all to the team. And if he’s ineffective we shouldn’t continue to pay him.

You and me both. I just flipped much earlier in the season.

 

[az240zz]

Who hired the coach?, who fired the GM, who nixed a reported trade for a point guard before the season. Who hired Watson??

This team will never win as long as Robert Sarver owns the team

 

[Mainstreet]

here's my question with the 4-5 veteran plan... how in the world are we going to do that? Everyone acknowledges that a) we don't have a lot of cap room and b) we'll have to overpay to get any FA worth a lick.

So, how is it feasible to to get 4-5 solid veterans with 20 million in cap room and knowing that we'll have to overpay to get anyone in here?

Maybe we're able to deal Warren for a solid veteran... but, isn't that what Warren already is? maybe they earmark Warren's money for someone who plays defense. Okay, that's how you get one solid veteran in.

Then do we split the 20 million in cap room (assuming we don't stretch Johnson) for two veterans? If so, what kind of FAs are we going to be able to get for 10 million a piece? Even if we're able to do that, that gets you...

eh, forget it. trying to figure out a Suns "plan" is an exercise in futility, mostly because they almost never accomplish what they set out to do.

I think one of the reasons the Suns acquired Tyler Johnson ($19,245,370) was to give them a larger contract to use in a trade.

Warren ($10,810,000) may be another piece. Of course it will require using sweeteners such as draft picks.

Also $20 million can go a long way if the Suns do not over spend for a player like Ariza. There are usually some bargains after the initial wave of free agency.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think one of the reasons the Suns acquired Tyler Johnson ($19,245,370) was to give them a larger contract to use in a trade.

Warren ($10,810,000) may be another piece. Of course it will require using sweeteners such as draft picks.

Also $20 million can go a long way if the Suns do not over spend for a player like Ariza. There are usually some bargains after the initial wave of free agency.

Tyler's contract is only useful if they are trading for someone who has a big contract. Holiday would be a good example.
I also agree that Warren is going to go bye-bye. What's interesting that the two players who will get traded for vets are the Suns vets. Outside of Crawford and Daniels, I think those two have the most experience in the NBA.

While there are some bargains after the initial wave, I think the Suns are going to have to overpay some vets. Whether it's a point guard like Rubio or Collison, or a power forward like Mirotic or Randle, the Suns will have to pay a bit more than better teams.

Either way, I am guessing that two of the "4-5 vets" will be guys like Quincy Acy, for example. High-energy, deep bench guys, and only two or three will be serviceable vets. Assuming they play the right positions, that will be OK. Suns are solid at SG, SF, and C. They need real NBA players with some experience at PG and C. Their bench unit, even right now is absolutely solid. I think Melton, Bridges, Oubre, Jackson, Holmes second unit is excellent, especially defensively.

 

[Western Font]

here's my question with the 4-5 veteran plan... how in the world are we going to do that? Everyone acknowledges that a) we don't have a lot of cap room and b) we'll have to overpay to get any FA worth a lick.

So, how is it feasible to to get 4-5 solid veterans with 20 million in cap room and knowing that we'll have to overpay to get anyone in here?

Maybe we're able to deal Warren for a solid veteran... but, isn't that what Warren already is? maybe they earmark Warren's money for someone who plays defense. Okay, that's how you get one solid veteran in.

Then do we split the 20 million in cap room (assuming we don't stretch Johnson) for two veterans? If so, what kind of FAs are we going to be able to get for 10 million a piece? Even if we're able to do that, that gets you...

eh, forget it. trying to figure out a Suns "plan" is an exercise in futility, mostly because they almost never accomplish what they set out to do.

Yeah, I think this 4-5 vets thing is a tall order for any team, let alone the Suns. I think you either need to be enough of a destination for a couple guys to take less—and we are not attracting any ring-chasers. Or you need to be able to be he solution for players in bad situations, extend the primes of players whose windows are thought to be closing, or diversify a players’ games (e.g. teach them to shoot). Spurs-esque organizational skills that the Suns used to share more of, but haven’t shown in a while.

I’d almost rather Jones say he’s targeting 1-2 vets with guaranteed impact. Sounds less delusional.

 

[taz02]

Yeah, I think this 4-5 vets thing is a tall order for any team, let alone the Suns. I think you either need to be enough of a destination for a couple guys to take less—and we are not attracting any ring-chasers. Or you need to be able to be he solution for players in bad situations, extend the primes of players whose windows are thought to be closing, or diversify a players’ games (e.g. teach them to shoot). Spurs-esque organizational skills that the Suns used to share more of, but haven’t shown in a while.

I’d almost rather Jones say he’s targeting 1-2 vets with guaranteed impact. Sounds less delusional.[/QUOTE]

That's what I thought. We don't need the 12th and 13th man. we vets that play significant minutes.

Didn't he also say that he planned on bringing in 4-5 vets without sending out any of the young players?

 

[Mainstreet]

Tyler's contract is only useful if they are trading for someone who has a big contract. Holiday would be a good example.
I also agree that Warren is going to go bye-bye. What's interesting that the two players who will get traded for vets are the Suns vets. Outside of Crawford and Daniels, I think those two have the most experience in the NBA.

While there are some bargains after the initial wave, I think the Suns are going to have to overpay some vets. Whether it's a point guard like Rubio or Collison, or a power forward like Mirotic or Randle, the Suns will have to pay a bit more than better teams.

Either way, I am guessing that two of the "4-5 vets" will be guys like Quincy Acy, for example. High-energy, deep bench guys, and only two or three will be serviceable vets. Assuming they play the right positions, that will be OK. Suns are solid at SG, SF, and C. They need real NBA players with some experience at PG and C. Their bench unit, even right now is absolutely solid. I think Melton, Bridges, Oubre, Jackson, Holmes second unit is excellent, especially defensively.

I suspect the Suns will trade for a veteran point guard and and add a veteran big man with a larger chunk of their $20 million in free agency. After that the Suns will likely be looking for bargain type veterans to fill in the roster.

Agree, trading veterans for veterans is sort of ironic but the Suns will be looking to fill specific positions like point guard and power forward.

Also, if the Suns do a larger trade, there might even be some veterans fillers coming back.