What most of the mad people are really mad about? Vent here!

[Chaplin]

I guess you are addressing a different audience because I never said such a thing.

Correct, I meant it as an addition to your post, not a refute of it.

 

[Yuma]

https://arizonasports.com/story/2006828/suns-receive-an-offseason-grade-of-f-from-yahoo-sports/

 

[Cheesebeef]

The Bucks pick is way too much? Bucks pick will probably land in the final 4 picks of the draft next year. If Jarome is a rotation quality player then it's a good deal.

There are other deals that the value was way off, that wasn't among them.

I think people are wayyyyyyy overrating the Bucks going into next season. I think they had that "perfect" season, but losing Brogdon, who's one of the only players on that team that can create for himself and others, is a major blow. The East is definitely weaker, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them fall back to Earth and only win 50 games, which would put them behind a bunch of teams in the West and Sixers and even possible Boston in the East.

 

[GatorAZ]

I think people are wayyyyyyy overrating the Bucks going into next season. I think they had that "perfect" season, but losing Brogdon, who's one of the only players on that team that can create for himself and others, is a major blow. The East is definitely weaker, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them fall back to Earth and only win 50 games, which would put them behind a bunch of teams in the West and Sixers and even possible Boston in the East.

Agreed. They have a superstar and are well coached but everyone else on that team has peaked. I bought into their supporting cast when they were up 2-0 on Toronto and then everyone flamed out and came back to reality.

I actually think Boston has a chance to be great again with Hayward being two full years removed from injury and a boost in leadership/morale with the Kyrie/Kemba swap. Stevens can go back to coaching and not worrying about sociopath/divas.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Agreed. They have a superstar and are well coached but everyone else on that team has peaked. I bought into their supporting cast when they were up 2-0 on Toronto and then everyone flamed out and came back to reality.

I actually think Boston has a chance to be great again with Hayward being two full years removed from injury and a boost in leadership/morale with the Kyrie/Kemba swap. Stevens can go back to coaching and not worrying about sociopath/divas.

I think they'll be better with that swap and Stevens getting full control of that team back as well.

 

[Phrazbit]

Just realize, then, that the end result is that the Suns will have traded a starting point guard (Bledsoe) straight up for a back-up point guard (Jerome)...

I know you like viewing things from a lens inside of an anus, but if you want to play that game, then technically we got a backup point guard straight up for Jared Dudley.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I know you like viewing things from a lens inside of an anus, but if you want to play that game, then technically we got a backup point guard straight up for Jared Dudley.

jesus... really?

 

[Raze]

Pretty much disagree with 90% of your failures above. The 10% is probably agreement on TJ Warren. But other than that, IMO you are really overvaluing the draft picks, especially #6 and #32.

• JJ did not get the full value for TJ. In fact, he willingly got robbed. And now everyone knows it. -- OK, not much to argue there.
• JJ did not get the full value for #32. It should NEVER have been added to the TJ trade. -- While I don't think it should have been added, I also don't think it's as great an asset as you appear to think it is.
• JJ did not get the full value for #6. He added a PF who is a terrible fit at D. Decent at O, but THAT good!?! Absolutely not. -- Good as opposed to what? Who we would get at #6? Guaranteed right now, today, that Dario Saric is better than ANY player we could have gotten at #6.
• JJ DID NOT get the full value from #11. Cam isn't SO good that you wouldn't trade back and hope he lands there. If you get jumped, you settle for Clarke or Kabengele or Jerome. And on top of that we ditched 2 SFs so we can add ANOTHER SF? Mind numbingly bad. -- Again, massive hyperbole. I would have been happy with Clarke, but I'm not too broken up about Cam. Best shooter in the draft and a more mature player. Ok, I get what he's trying to do. The difference here is that nobody he could have gotten at that spot would have been much better than what Cam projects as. Hell, Clarke didn't go until #21! So, "mind-numbingly bad" by James Jones? Not so much.
• JJ did not get the full value for Melton. Melton was an excellent defending PG prospect. I really like Carter, but he IS NOT better than Melton. And to add two 2nds and JJ? So he didn't get value for Melton or the 2020 2nd or the 20201 Conditional 2nd. Which goes along with... -- Carter may not be better than Melton, but he's not much worse either. You are overvaluing Melton who was one of the most overrated players this offseason. The guy could defend, but couldn't do anything else. Basically the same as Carter. But we needed to move him to get rid of Josh Jackson.
• JJ did not get the full value for Josh. Ouchi clarifies this above. My addition would be: if you're stock value has plummeted zero value, you don't PAY someone to take it off your hands. You just hang on to it and hope it gains enough in the future to become valuable again. If he doesn't than you let him walk like Bender. I know he had #7M attached to him, but so what. EVERY team has had a guy like that. They don't make these desperate trades. There is absolutely NO precedent for these kind of trades. JJ is either proving he's in over his head, or he's a trend setter. I'm not banking on the latter. -- Now this one I disagree with the most. Josh Jackson was a negative asset this summer. We can't run the same circle over and over and over and over, simply because you think he MIGHT be better. We've ran that race, and we've lost everytime. I have no issue with getting rid of JJ the way we did. Keep in mind, that JJ and TJ Warren taken together equals the salary we gave to Ricky Rubio, who I think is vastly more important to this team than TJ and JJ would EVER be.
• JJ slightly didn't get full value for the #24 pick. This is fully subjective as I would rather have had Kabengele or Bruno. Jerome is a winner, but really slow. I'm not excited about him. -- I think sleeping on Jerome is a mistake. I like the pick a lot.

I will number these so it is a bit easier to follow.

1. Agree with you both. We should have gotten more for TJ.
2. Not really a separate point.
3. Chap. Love having Saric. Would have chosen him for any player we would have gotten at #6. He only has one year left, but he is a RFA so we can keep him if we want to.
4. TBD. Any of us arguing whether Cam was worth the #11 is pointless right now. Time will tell. He is the guy they wanted and they got him. Trying to trade back further is just playing with fire if he is the guy they wanted.
5. Melton vs Carter. Really!? Are we arguing about this? These are both guys who are barely hanging onto NBA jobs. I think Carter is better, but it is really inconsequential.
6. No way. They had to move his salary to sign Rubio. That is not hard to understand. JJ needed to be out of this locker room. Let's see. His numbers were horrible. The Suns would have more wins over last year just by not playing him. In a historic run of bad basketball play, he blamed his teammates claiming "I do not know how to play bad basketball." Runs from police hand-cuffed. Knocking up old ladies in his off-time. Accused of getting a little baby high. Clearly admitted to be a big-time pot user in trying to excuse himself. Missed public relations commitments. Some of these things might get overlooked for a really good player, but he is not a good player. At some point you have to ask yourself whether you want this guy representing your team. Like I said before, this guy is headed for jail unless he makes big changes as a person. When you are trying to change team culture, this is the kind of guy you have to dump. No one was going to take him without something attached. I am shocked we moved him so cheaply.
7. I loved Kabengele and would have loved to get him with the #24 pick, but I do not see how that makes Jerome a mistake. Jerome is being touted as one of the better picks of the draft. That is just a difference of opinion there.

Thanks fellas for the well thought out rebuttals. Let's just hope this all works out and we have a great team to cheer on.

 

[Phrazbit]

jesus... really?

I just realized that you might be ignoring someone and thought that was directed at you, it wasn't.

Frustrating how tone can be hard to convey on occasion in text.

 

[Muggz]

I'm mad that we have to wait till October.
And that i went undrafted 25 years ago. And that no one would sign me for the league minimum.
Theres gotta be room somewhere for a 50yr old 4 foot 1 inch center.

 

[devilalum]

I think people are wayyyyyyy overrating the Bucks going into next season. I think they had that "perfect" season, but losing Brogdon, who's one of the only players on that team that can create for himself and others, is a major blow. The East is definitely weaker, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them fall back to Earth and only win 50 games, which would put them behind a bunch of teams in the West and Sixers and even possible Boston in the East.

Nobody in the west is gonna win 55 games because they all have to play each other 4 times. The Bucks only have to play those teams twice.

 

[GatorAZ]

Nobody in the west is gonna win 55 games because they all have to play each other 4 times. The Bucks only have to play those teams twice.

Reminds me of the 2005 juggernaut West...

Powerhouses: Spurs, Suns, Mavs
50+ win teams: Rockets, Sonics, Kings
Very good teams: Nuggets, Grizzlies, Wolves