What pick would you need to get to trade Josh Rosen or is he completely off the table?

[Crimson Warrior]

He was horrible in the Alabama game. Very inaccurate. He looked like Rosen did this year.

I was really starting to want Murray and then I watched his plays against Alabama and I saw similar play to what we saw from Rosen, except better supporting cast and playcaller.

Knew the bolded was coming, and the AL game is a legitimate concern.

But is 300+ yards passing and 100+ rushing "horrible"?

His worst game of the year? For sure. He appeared to be little rattled in the 1st quarter (but so did everybody on OU's team, including Riley), He forced a couple of throws into coverage, and completed barely 50% of his passes.

Still, he posted a 139 QB rating, he was running at will against easily the best defense he faced this year, and down 28-0, he willed his team back into the game.

Also, Hollywood Brown was maybe 60% for the orange bowl, and was a liability while he was on the field, dropping easy catches, and running ineffective routes.

Krang, I admit the AL game was more bad than good for the idea of "Draft Murray at #1". Not trying to spin it that much.

But he had one good WR vs. AL, and he still kept OU competitive with his play-making ability.

Murray is the kind of QB that instantly makes the other skill position guys around him way better. Can you imagine what a holy terror Kyler and DJ in the same backfield would be?

It's this dynamic, instant offense, play-making ability that makes me confident that Murray is worth the #1 pick, and that he would give the Cardinal's a legit shot at a title.

And on 4/25, he'll be just sitting there, waiting for us to pick him. Do it SK! Pull the trigger man!

 

[DRM08]

Knew the bolded was coming, and the AL game is a legitimate concern.

But is 300+ yards passing and 100+ rushing "horrible"?

His worst game of the year? For sure. He appeared to be little rattled in the 1st quarter (but so did everybody on OU's team, including Riley), He forced a couple of throws into coverage, and completed barely 50% of his passes.

Still, he posted a 129 QB rating, he was running at will against easily the best defense he faced this year, and down 28-0, he willed his team back into the game.

Also, Hollywood Brown was maybe 60% for the orange bowl, and was a liability while he was on the field, dropping easy catches, and running ineffective routes.

Krang, I admit the AL game was more bad than good for the idea of "Draft Murray at #1". Not trying to spin it that much.

But he had one good WR vs. AL, and he still kept OU competitive with his play-making ability.

Murray is the kind of QB that instantly makes the other skill position guys around him way better. Can you imagine what a holy terror Kyler and DJ in the same backfield would be?

It's this dynamic, instant offense, play-making ability that makes me confident that Murray is worth the #1 pick, and that he would give the Cardinal's a legit shot at a title.

And on 4/25, he'll be just sitting there, waiting for us to pick him. Do it SK! Pull the trigger man!

129 passer rating is not good at the college level, especially for a QB that averaged 200 rating for the year.

 

[oaken1]

Knew the bolded was coming, and the AL game is a legitimate concern.

But is 300+ yards passing and 100+ rushing "horrible"?

His worst game of the year? For sure. He appeared to be little rattled in the 1st quarter (but so did everybody on OU's team, including Riley), He forced a couple of throws into coverage, and completed barely 50% of his passes.

Still, he posted a 129 QB rating, he was running at will against easily the best defense he faced this year, and down 28-0, he willed his team back into the game.

Also, Hollywood Brown was maybe 60% for the orange bowl, and was a liability while he was on the field, dropping easy catches, and running ineffective routes.

Krang, I admit the AL game was more bad than good for the idea of "Draft Murray at #1". Not trying to spin it that much.

But he had one good WR vs. AL, and he still kept OU competitive with his play-making ability.

Murray is the kind of QB that instantly makes the other skill position guys around him way better. Can you imagine what a holy terror Kyler and DJ in the same backfield would be?

It's this dynamic, instant offense, play-making ability that makes me confident that Murray is worth the #1 pick, and that he would give the Cardinal's a legit shot at a title.

And on 4/25, he'll be just sitting there, waiting for us to pick him. Do it SK! Pull the trigger man!

i wouldnt lose my lunch if they drafted him with the first pick in the second. Dude is a third round pick, but like you said....possibilities.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Knew the bolded was coming, and the AL game is a legitimate concern.

But is 300+ yards passing and 100+ rushing "horrible"?

His worst game of the year? For sure. He appeared to be little rattled in the 1st quarter (but so did everybody on OU's team, including Riley), He forced a couple of throws into coverage, and completed barely 50% of his passes.

Still, he posted a 129 QB rating, he was running at will against easily the best defense he faced this year, and down 28-0, he willed his team back into the game.

Also, Hollywood Brown was maybe 60% for the orange bowl, and was a liability while he was on the field, dropping easy catches, and running ineffective routes.

Krang, I admit the AL game was more bad than good for the idea of "Draft Murray at #1". Not trying to spin it that much.

But he had one good WR vs. AL, and he still kept OU competitive with his play-making ability.

Murray is the kind of QB that instantly makes the other skill position guys around him way better. Can you imagine what a holy terror Kyler and DJ in the same backfield would be?

It's this dynamic, instant offense, play-making ability that makes me confident that Murray is worth the #1 pick, and that he would give the Cardinal's a legit shot at a title.

And on 4/25, he'll be just sitting there, waiting for us to pick him. Do it SK! Pull the trigger man!

I think you are still down playing his poor play.

His ineffective play was the leading reason Alabama won. More concerned about the over throws and poor reads than Hollywood's drops.

Most of his stats came when the game was out of reach.

 

[Krangodnzr]

i wouldnt lose my lunch if they drafted him with the first pick in the second. Dude is a third round pick, but like you said....possibilities.

I disagree.

Murray is a great player. He has a good chance to be Russell Wilson good. I don't question that.

I question whether it's a good idea to draft him with Rosen on the team. Rosen can be the next Eli Manning IMO.

I would pull the trigger on Murray IF the Cardinals can get good compensation for Rosen.

 

[DRM08]

I disagree.

Murray is a great player. He has a good chance to be Russell Wilson good. I don't question that.

He has that potential but only if he can stay healthy like Wilson. That’s a huge IF.

 

[Krangodnzr]

He has that potential but only if he can stay healthy like Wilson. That’s a huge IF.

That is a question for any football player.

I'm not too concerned about him getting hurt actually. His film easily demonstrates that he knows how to avoid contact, much like Russell Wilson. He doesn't fight for extra yards.

 

[DRM08]

That is a question for any football player.

I'm not too concerned about him getting hurt actually. His film easily demonstrates that he knows how to avoid contact, much like Russell Wilson. He doesn't fight for extra yards.

Valid points. Bosa has an injury history and people here don’t even consider the idea it could be a problem.

Murray is a smart player in terms of sliding, much smarter than guys like RG3/Watson. But the bigger concern is what happens when he does not have a dominant OL? What happens when the pocket collapses and he gets crushed from the blind side?

 

[TheCardFan]

Rosen can be the next Eli Manning IMO.

I would pull the trigger on Murray IF the Cardinals can get good compensation for Rosen.

Why trade the next Eli Manning for Murray? Too much risk and not enough gain in that scenario plus we would lose out on Bosa or Q.

I do think Eli is the best comparison for Rosen.

 

[TheCardFan]

Valid points. Bosa has an injury history and people here don’t even consider the idea it could be a problem.

Murray is a smart player in terms of sliding, much smarter than guys like RG3/Watson. But the bigger concern is what happens when he does not have a dominant OL? What happens when the pocket collapses and he gets crushed from the blind side?

Agreed. The difference is you don't have 300#+ guys landing on 190# guys regularly.

He could be the next Russel Wilson (3rd rd pick). He could be the next Tyrod Taylor (6th rd pick).

I would not take Murray in the top 15 picks (it would be a stretch for us to take him at #33 IMO).

 

[Crimson Warrior]

129 passer rating is not good at the college level, especially for a QB that averaged 200 rating for the year.

It was actually 139 (dammit ) . Still way below his average.

 

[Crimson Warrior]

I think you are still down playing his poor play.

His ineffective play was the leading reason Alabama won. More concerned about the over throws and poor reads than Hollywood's drops.

Most of his stats came when the game was out of reach.

I am trying to minimize the effect of this game will have on everyone's opinion, true. I'll be honest Krang, watching that tape shakes my faith in KM some. Not a lot, but some.

Still, I'm asserting the AL game is an outlier in the total 14 games Murray played this past year.

Still confident in Murray's innate ability.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I’ve heard the exact opposite and that he would be the #1 QB this year.

I've heard exactly what you did but by watching all 3 of them, no way they're better than Rosen. Sure Murray is talented but not one time have I heard from any analyst say he's the most NFL ready of all the QB's in the draft. We definitely heard that about Rosen & he was in a much better QB class. Rosen was just doomed from the start, horrible horrible off coordinator, 2 WR's really & one was a rookie but talented. Poor off line that only got worse & more injured as the season went on. Thrown right into the fire in like the 3rd or 4th game. I've said it many times, no rookie QB in the history of the NFL could've managed much more if any than Rosen did with that off line. Not manning, not Favre, not Brady, not Montana.........i could go on. Look what tom Clements did with Brett Favre & Aaron Rodgers careers, plus he won a super bowl & now he's with us. Plus KK is a good QB's coach so Rosen has no choice but to improve. I really think he will, just needs better off linemen.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

. And Bosa terrorizes is for the next 10 years.

If they actually draft Murray, I'm still cardinals till I die, will be screaming & cussing at the t.v every Sunday. With that being said, I hope they select a defensive player & not Murray. Sure I'll fill my head with every good thought said about, or I can think of positive about Murray if he is the pick but I really want bosa, Allen or Williams. Most people seem to think bosa straight up #1 or trade down to #4 with the raiders & take Allen or Williams.

 

[slanidrac16]

If they actually draft Murray, I'm still cardinals till I die, will be screaming & cussing at the t.v every Sunday. With that being said, I hope they select a defensive player & not Murray. Sure I'll fill my head with every good thought said about, or I can think of positive about Murray if he is the pick but I really want bosa, Allen or Williams. Most people seem to think bosa straight up #1 or trade down to #4 with the raiders & take Allen or Williams.

I hear you. As will most of us!

 

[TheCardFan]

If they actually draft Murray, I'm still cardinals till I die, will be screaming & cussing at the t.v every Sunday. With that being said, I hope they select a defensive player & not Murray. Sure I'll fill my head with every good thought said about, or I can think of positive about Murray if he is the pick but I really want bosa, Allen or Williams. Most people seem to think bosa straight up #1 or trade down to #4 with the raiders & take Allen or Williams.

Having the #1 pick in the draft will turn from one of the best draft experiences to the worst for me if we take Murray.

 

[PACardsFan]

hear that in your dining room?
Rosen would be first in this draft...hands down.

We’ll wait and see if Rosen has a better career than Murray. You’re going to be disappointed. That’s not saying that Rosen can’t play in the NFL. It’s just that Murray will be a superstar.

 

[DVontel]

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Nick Bosa, come on down!

 

[slanidrac16]

We’ll wait and see if Rosen has a better career than Murray. You’re going to be disappointed. That’s not saying that Rosen can’t play in the NFL. It’s just that Murray will be a superstar.

How can you say that? He hasn’t taken a snap from under center, thrown into one nfl coverage, faced one nfl defense or exotic blitz or has had to get after two or three hits from a real nfl pro player.

 

[TheCardFan]

We’ll wait and see if Rosen has a better career than Murray. You’re going to be disappointed. That’s not saying that Rosen can’t play in the NFL. It’s just that Murray will be a superstar.

Should be interesting to come back to these threads 3 years from now.

Rosen has his own challenges but how many 5-10 QB’s have become superstars in the NFL? And how many 5-10 QB’s with 1 year of starting experience? Odds are significantly against him.

 

[juza76]

How can you say that? He hasn’t taken a snap from under center, thrown into one nfl coverage, faced one nfl defense or exotic blitz or has had to get after two or three hits from a real nfl pro player.

He say that in the same way u are skeptical about his chances of being a nfl starter

 

[PACardsFan]

How can you say that? He hasn’t taken a snap from under center, thrown into one nfl coverage, faced one nfl defense or exotic blitz or has had to get after two or three hits from a real nfl pro player.

Based on obvious talent, you have to be able to project how successful a player may be. There’s no guarantees in sports or life for that matter. But, when you take a player, who then is the BEST player on the field, from the time he’s a youngster, through HS (never lost a game), then through college, then it’s not a reach to say he’ll be a superstar at the next level. We’ll wait and see. I’ll gladly eat crow if we stay put and Rosen wins a SB for us. Or multiple SB’s for us. I want nothing more than to see that. I just think we have a better chance of seeing that with Murray than with Rosen. I’ve said it a million times, that I hope & pray that I’m wrong! If Rosen takes us to the promised land, I’ll have no shame in conceding that I was wrong.

 

[slanidrac16]

He say that in the same way u are skeptical about his chances of being a nfl starter

There is a big difference in being skeptical and proclaiming greatness. I’m pro Rosen but I’m still skeptical. I just think we need to put some decent pieces around him. Add to that a real coaching staff , play design and play calling and I think he will succeed.

 

[PACardsFan]

Based on obvious talent, you have to be able to project how successful a player may be. There’s no guarantees in sports or life for that matter. But, when you take player, who then is the BEST player on the field, from the time he’s a youngster, through HS (never lost a game), then through college, then it’s not a reach to say he’ll be a superstar at the next level. We’ll wait and see. I’ll gladly eat crow if we stay put and Rosen wins a SB for us. Or multiple SB’s fo

There is a big difference in being skeptical and proclaiming greatness. I’m pro Rosen but I’m still skeptical. I just think we need to put some decent pieces around him. Add to that a real coaching staff , play design and play calling and I think he will succeed.

You should be skeptical about Rosen. Even though he’s been good enough to position himself in the NFL, he’s NEVER been special or great. Murray has been GREAT every step of the way. There was a time when I was shallow enough to believe that a 5’10 QB couldn’t make it in the NFL, let alone be a superstar. The game has changed, the rules have changed, and coaching systems now favor supreme QB athletes regardless of how tall or short they are.

 

[slanidrac16]

You should be skeptical about Rosen. Even though he’s been good enough to position himself in the NFL, he’s NEVER been special or great. Murray has been GREAT every step of the way. There was a time when I was shallow enough to believe that a 5’10 QB couldn’t make it in the NFL, let alone be a superstar. The game has changed, the rules have changed, and coaching systems now favor supreme QB athletes regardless of how tall or short they are.

Trust me I do have skepticism on Rosen. However, I do have a problem with scrapping a 1st round pick when he was thrown to the wolves with a terrible coaching staff and supporting cast. Good lord aikman, manning and others had terrible first years only to greatly improve as their supporting cast improved.