What QB Will We Draft in 1st Round?

[Mulli]

We can either find one good QB that makes his line look better than they actually are or find five or six good offensive linemen that make their QB look better.

I'll go for the former.

This. I say it every year.

 

[crisper57]

We can either find one good QB that makes a bad line look better than they actually are or find five or six good offensive linemen that make a bad QB look better.

I'll go for the former.

Yeah, those QB's are a dime-a-dozen. Should be real easy for a rook to come in and fix everything.

 

[Gaddabout]

1. I highly doubt Fitzgerald would threaten to retire. That's not his personality.

2. I also don't think Fitz would make idle threats. Nor do I think he would hold a team hostage.

3. If you think you can assess the Cards QBs considering the tackle situation, you are either the greatest QB guru on the planet or you're insane.

4. I didn't like Kolb in Philly. I hated the trade when it was made. But now that he's here, I think Kolb has shown plenty this season if the Cards can merely keep him upright. I think you commit to him because (a) he's got all that guaranteed money anyway and (b) he's shown he can manage the offense and make enough plays when he's not being mauled in under 2 seconds.

5. The offensive line can't be fixed next year in the draft, no matter how many picks you have. Tackle is a VERY hard position to learn at this level. The best chance is through free agency or trade. I suggest trade. I suggest using draft picks in trade. Whatever it takes.

 

[Mulli]

Both QB's have serious accuracy issues when they have time to throw. And now Kolb has Rosenbaugh/ David Carr issues. Draft a QBOF (if the right one is there) and fix the line some other way.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Yeah, those QB's are a dime-a-dozen. Should be real easy for a rook to come in and fix everything.

OL are too. Remember drafting LJ Shelton, Anthony Clement, Leonard Davis in the first couple rounds then signing former Pro Bowler Pete Kendall? How'd that offensive line work out? Oh yeah, it sucked balls because the guys behind it were Jeff Blake and Josh McCown.

We have used two high draft picks on QB's since arriving in Arizona: well-known drunken frat boys Jake Plummer and Matt Leinart. Spend a high pick on an actual professional and there's a good chance it works out.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

If you haven't seen Skelton or Kolb throw high across the middle this year then I'm not sure what games you are watching. Most of those scrubs passes are off the mark.

Fitz is already regarded in the class of all-time greats you mention. Also keep in mind one of his closest friends and mentors is Kurt Warner who left $20 million on the table so he could live a full life after retirement. Not saying it's going to happen today or next week but the guy's simply not going to stick around and continue catching passes from terrible QB's for the next seven years. You just don't understand how he's built.

11 million.

And where did you get the deep understanding on how Fitz's built and his commitment (or lack of) to this team?

 

[Mulli]

OL are too. Remember drafting LJ Shelton, Anthony Clement, Leonard Davis in the first couple rounds then signing former Pro Bowler Pete Kendall? How'd that offensive line work out? Oh yeah, it sucked balls because the guys behind it were Jeff Blake and Josh McCown.

We have used two high draft picks on QB's since arriving in Arizona: well-known drunken frat boys Jake Plummer and Matt Leinart. Spend a high pick on an actual professional and there's a good chance it works out.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

1. I highly doubt Fitzgerald would threaten to retire. That's not his personality.

2. I also don't think Fitz would make idle threats. Nor do I think he would hold a team hostage..

You really think his personality is one that he's going to hang around here for the next however many years with the current clown car that is our QB position?

Nobody seems to recall him not signing an extension until he thought (incorrectly as it turns out) that we had a long-term solution in Kolb.

3. If you think you can assess the Cards QBs considering the tackle situation, you are either the greatest QB guru on the planet or you're insane.

4. I didn't like Kolb in Philly. I hated the trade when it was made. But now that he's here, I think Kolb has shown plenty this season if the Cards can merely keep him upright. I think you commit to him because (a) he's got all that guaranteed money anyway and (b) he's shown he can manage the offense and make enough plays when he's not being mauled in under 2 seconds.

Neither Skelton or Kolb were worth a damn last year when they were getting protected, nor was Kolb in Philly. Kolb is done unless he takes a massive paycut, we can't commit to him when he has never shown he can play more than eight games a season.

.

5. The offensive line can't be fixed next year in the draft, no matter how many picks you have. Tackle is a VERY hard position to learn at this level. The best chance is through free agency or trade. I suggest trade. I suggest using draft picks in trade. Whatever it takes.

Or get back Levi and upgrade the QB situation.

 

[WildBB]

My guess is we'll probably pick somewhere between six and twelve overall but for sake of conversation let's assume everyone is still on the board at QB.

Sitting at 4-2, this this thread is irrelevant. Get into the season - support your team!

 

[SECTION 11]

John Skelton

 

[crisper57]

This. I say it every year.

This has been a pattern every year....

Whiz is on record that we will try to establish a run. Our RB's are hit in the backfield every single time they touch the ball because the interior line is abysmal at run-blocking. They struggle just to get back to the LOS. We may accumulate 40 yards rushing by the end of the 3rd quarter, and at some point, we'll be playing from behind.

So we eventually abandon the run. We have to. Everyone in the stadium knows it. Then the D pins its ears back and comes after the QB hard with their front 3-or-4. Our tackles can't handle a speed rush. The other 7-or-8 defenders drop back into coverage and blanket all the passing lanes.

Fitz is double covered. Roberts is also blanketed. #3/#4 WR and TE's will likely drop the pass, even if it hits them in the hands, but don't worry, they can't get open anyway. And to make matters worse, our RB's can't catch a screen/check-down if their lives depended on it.

QB has no open receivers. His pocket is collapsing well under 3 seconds. He's lucky if he has a lane to break off a scramble to avoid the sack.

How is a QB supposed to make this situation better, exactly?

I am sure someone will say "Warner did it!" Yeah, well he also had better weapons and is a HOF'er. Anything short of a HOF QB, and we repeat this cycle. Or we can go out and get an 4-of-5 pieces for average OL for about the same price (excluding a LT). Then we get a real ground game going and take the pressure off the QB.

 

[Mulli]

John Skelton

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

I wouldn't waste a 1st or 2nd round pick on an OLman, so I guess if a "sure fire" QB is available to us, we should grab him. But only if we see him as the caliber of someone who can start for us immediately. No projects (like Floyd) with a high draft pick.....You want guys who can make an impact immediately.

With our starting OLmen back next year, and after how young OLmen have had the rest of the year to learn and improve, we should be set with depth at the OL positions.

Now, what if a sure fire starting QB is not available to us with our 1st pick? I would probably continue to improve our defense since that is what is keeping us in and winning us games. I would love to see us having the top D in the league.

Back to QB position. Why the heck do we keep drafting and signing QBs if we don't see them as our future franchise QB? We have 3 of them now. How many more can we use? These mediocre late round picks are wasting roster spots. Package our picks and move up and get the future QB once and for all, or build up the other prime positions on your team. I am sick of the QB roulette game the Cards always play.

How about simply making a trade for Cousins? Would he be as sure of a thing as anything we could do with a mid-1st round pick?

Offensive line, to be serious for a moment...... bite the bullet and grab the best FAs available immediately when season is over and you can. Don't wait for other team's to snatch up all the best ones. Build you line with proven vets no matter what the cost. My God, we wasted 20 some million on Kolb. Spend that on a proven OLman or two or three or four.

 

[Mulli]

This has been a pattern every year....

Whiz is on record that we will try to establish a run. Our RB's are hit in the backfield every single time they touch the ball because the interior line is abysmal at run-blocking. They struggle just to get back to the LOS. We may accumulate 40 yards rushing by the end of the 3rd quarter, and at some point, we'll be playing from behind.

So we eventually abandon the run. We have to. Everyone in the stadium knows it. Then the D pins its ears back and comes after the QB hard with their front 3-or-4. Our tackles can't handle a speed rush. The other 7-or-8 defenders drop back into coverage and blanket all the passing lanes.

Fitz is double covered. Roberts is also blanketed. #3/#4 WR and TE's will likely drop the pass, even if it hits them in the hands, but don't worry, they can't get open anyway. And to make matters worse, our RB's can't catch a screen/check-down if their lives depended on it.

QB has no open receivers. His pocket is collapsing well under 3 seconds. He's lucky if he has a lane to break off a scramble to avoid the sack.

How is a QB supposed to make this situation better, exactly?

I am sure someone will say "Warner did it!" Yeah, well he also had better weapons and is a HOF'er. Anything short of a HOF QB, and we repeat this cycle. Or we can go out and get an 4-of-5 pieces for average OL for about the same price (excluding a LT).

Yes, you have to fix the line.
A better QB could have won both the STL and the BUF game. Kolb missed open receivers and single coverage on Fitz (pre-snap read) SEVERAL times.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I am sure someone will say "Warner did it!" Yeah, well he also had better weapons and is a HOF'er. Anything short of a HOF QB, and we repeat this cycle. Or we can go out and get an 4-of-5 pieces for average OL for about the same price (excluding a LT). Then we get a real ground game going and take the pressure off the QB.

Ok, we'll do it your way and hypothetically be stacked everywhere on the field except QB where we continue to be mediocre or worse. Then watch us lose in the division game every year at best because maybe once or twice in NFL history have mediocre QB's won a Super Bowl.

 

[crisper57]

Yes, you have to fix the line.
A better QB could have won both the STL and the BUF game. Kolb missed open receivers and single coverage on Fitz (pre-snap read) SEVERAL times.

To be fair, it is hard to see the field looking out of his earhole.

 

[Mulli]

To be fair, it is hard to see the field looking out of his earhole.

If I can look at the TV and see single coverage on Fitz, then I see Fitz throw his hands up in the air, I am pretty confident in not blaming the OL on those particular plays. Kolb can feel free not to stare down a receiver pre-snap.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I wouldn't waste a 1st or 2nd round pick on an OLman, so I guess if a "sure fire" QB is available to us, we should grab him. But only if we see him as the caliber of someone who can start for us immediately. No projects (like Floyd) with a high draft pick.....You want guys who can make an impact immediately.

With our starting OLmen back next year, and after how young OLmen have had the rest of the year to learn and improve, we should be set with depth at the OL positions.

Now, what if a sure fire starting QB is not available to us with our 1st pick? I would probably continue to improve our defense since that is what is keeping us in and winning us games. I would love to see us having the top D in the league.

Back to QB position. Why the heck do we keep drafting and signing QBs if we don't see them as our future franchise QB? We have 3 of them now. How many more can we use? These mediocre late round picks are wasting roster spots. Package our picks and move up and get the future QB once and for all, or build up the other prime positions on your team. I am sick of the QB roulette game the Cards always play.

How about simply making a trade for Cousins? Would he be as sure of a thing as anything we could do with a mid-1st round pick?

Offensive line, to be serious for a moment...... bite the bullet and grab the best FAs available immediately when season is over and you can. Don't wait for other team's to snatch up all the best ones. Build you line with proven vets no matter what the cost. My God, we wasted 20 some million on Kolb. Spend that on a proven OLman or two or three or four.

There is no such thing in a CAP limited League as "no matter what the cost". What you pay here, you take from there. That said: I agree we should be more aggressive seeking quality vet O-lineman.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

John Skelton

It's the guy's third year in the NFL and in the same system, more than enough time to get it together in today's NFL. And well thus far he still seems to be quite awful, so he better show something liek right now.

And by "show something" I don't mean throwing picks and only scoring 15ppg but still winning thanks to the defense pitching shutouts and Patrick Peterson housing punt returns.

 

[crisper57]

Ok, we'll do it your way and hypothetically be stacked everywhere on the field except QB where we continue to be mediocre or worse. Then watch us lose in the division game every year at best because maybe once or twice in NFL history have mediocre QB's won a Super Bowl.

Well we had one of the best to ever play in our SB run and he still couldn't get the job done behind a line that was better than what we're putting out there now. In fact, he accomplished just a little more than Alex Smith did last year.

We need more pieces than a QB to win a SB. We aren't just one guy away. Even the good ones need more that 2.07 seconds to throw. And they need the support of a run game, at least a little bit.

Until the line is addressed, no one will succeed back there. As a realist, I don't think we can expect to snatch up proven vets to fix the issue. We need two tackles, and I don't see other teams a) letting us trade for one or b) letting their good ones hit FA.

Too many teams are having OL problems this year and the market in the offseason for those proven veterans that do slip through will be a really competitive.

 

[Mulli]

Well we had one of the best to ever play in our SB run and he still couldn't get the job done behind a line that was better than what we're putting out there now. In fact, he accomplished just a little more than Alex Smith did last year.

We need more pieces than a QB to win a SB. We aren't just one guy away. Even the good ones need more that 2.07 seconds to throw. And they need the support of a run game, at least a little bit.

Until the line is addressed, no one will succeed back there. As a realist, I don't think we can expect to snatch up proven vets to fix the issue. We need two tackles, and I don't see other teams a) letting us trade for one or b) letting their good ones hit FA.

Too many teams are having OL problems this year and the market in the offseason for those proven veterans that do slip through will be a really competitive.

Crispy, I love you, man, but I am a little baffled by this. Warner had one heck of a post-season in 2008 and was a toe from winning. Smith was not. Not sure what you mean.

 

[crisper57]

Crispy, I love you, man, but I am a little baffled by this. Warner had one heck of a post-season in 2008 and was a toe from winning. Smith was not. Not sure what you mean.

He was saying that mediocre QB's don't win SB's. So I compared deep post season runs of two NFCW QB's in recent memory (neither of which actually won the big game).

I was saying, not so eloquently, that our HOF QB (behind a suspect OL) accomplished a little more than a mediocre QB (behind a great OL).

One won the NFC Championship Game and the other came up short (mostly due to ST's miscues).

Perhaps the one factor that is more important than skill for a deep run is health. And no one is staying healthy behind our line.

 

[john h]

My guess is we'll probably pick somewhere between six and twelve overall but for sake of conversation let's assume everyone is still on the board at QB.

I do not think we will draft low enough to get what people think is the very best. I have seen Tyler Wilson for three years and I think he is the real deal. I sure hope he is there and a consideration. He threw I believe 6 TDs in three quarters this week against Kentucky and the game was called because of storms before the 4th quarter started. He well may lead the SEC in passing this year even on a bad team with few good receivers. Tough to the core and a real well spoken leader who can throw accurately and hang in the pocket or even run the ball. He is around 6'4" and 225 and should show well on try out day with the pros.

If there are no good QBs when we draft do we go after one of the FA QBs? We simply cannot go with what we have. I predicted early on Kolb would not last the season as he wold likely be injured. Same goes for Skelton. We must draft a QB no matter what to even have someone to fill a spot if nothing else. There are many who will be calling for a OT ob oth sides and they are right that we are as weak a team in the NFL at that spot but without a real QB we are nowhere no matter if we have all pros at OT. Look at the difference an aging QB like Eli Manning is making for Denver. I see them in the playoffs. A QB is the one position that can turn you around in a hurry. An OT cannot do that. I would even consider trading some draft spots if there is some experienced QB available. We struck gold one time with Kurt. Maybe lighting will strike again. I think 4 starting QBs came out of last years draft. You would think we might find one of these guys. Many said Tanneyhill was a loser. Sure looks like no loser I ever saw. Some really good young QBs out there starting there first year. Why can't we get one? Are we not smart enough? It cannot all be bad luck for so many years. Our one big chance was Matt and he turns out to be Matt and Heisman type big time failure. Only the Cards-only the Cards.

It looks to me like it is all on Skelton now as Kolb looked out of it. If and when Skelton goes down then who is next in line? I have heard many times that if Whiz does not go 8-8 he is history. He may have a hard time going 8-8 this year but I do not lay all this on him. It would be a firing for publicity in my opinion. The best choice to fire would be Graves but as I often say Graves may not even be the guy who is in charge of the draft. No one knows and no one will tell. Not even Graves. We just lost to two very bad teams after beating some of the best teams. Now what? Why have we not received more information on Kolb? Who is taking all the snaps in practice and who appears to be the backup?

 

[john h]

My guess is we'll probably pick somewhere between six and twelve overall but for sake of conversation let's assume everyone is still on the board at QB.

Wislon then Wilson then Wilson. Best QB I have seen come out of Arkansas in many years and an SEC standout against some of the best teams in the nation.

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

With all the awareness regarding injuries, especially long term physical and mental disabilities, and the fact we now live in the 21st century as far as science goes, we should and will be cloning our athletes before long. There is no reason to send any person out their to absorb that much punishment each week. Before this century is up, players clones will be suited up in their place. We will see clones of players being created in a lab and sent out to entertain us each week. Their whole existence will be to work out, get bigger, stronger, and faster, and will take the place of the "original" person only at game time.

IF the Cards were smart, they would get in front of this now. It would be wonderful as fans of the Cards for us to be dominating the first few years that the league completely goes to this. Hopefully, we won't be one of the last and fall behind as usual.

Just think, while they are still alive, we could acquiring the DNA/genes of Jim Brown, Joe Montana, Jerry Rice, etc to begin building our future team with. I am sorry I won't be here to see it.