What QB Will We Draft in 1st Round?

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I just laugh at the insinuation that if we draft OL high we can cure poor QB play. Did top two round picks like Big Davis, Anthony Clement, LJ Shelton, Deuce Lutui, and Levi Brown have help our QB's much over the years? Sure we blew it with Plummer and Leinart as well but let's not pretend that one is easier to identify than the other.

And I'd also like to point out that the overwhelming consensus around the NFL for best OT in the league is Joe Thomas and the Cleveland Browns have been horrid every year he has been there. When was the last time the team with the best QB in the league sucked?

 

[D-Dogg]

And then you "fix" the line, and have Matt Moore as the opening day starter in 2014. :championship:

You jest...but we'd be vastly improved.

23 sacks in 3 games turns a Manning into a Matt Moore.

 

[D-Dogg]

I just laugh at the insinuation that if we draft OL high we can cure poor QB play. Did top two round picks like Big Davis, Anthony Clement, LJ Shelton, Deuce Lutui, and Levi Brown have help our QB's much over the years? Sure we blew it with Plummer and Leinart as well but let's not pretend that one is easier to identify than the other.

And I'd also like to point out that the overwhelming consensus around the NFL for best OT in the league is Joe Thomas and the Cleveland Browns have been horrid every year he has been there. When was the last time the team with the best QB in the league sucked?

When did the best QB in the league have the worst line in the league?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

When did the best QB in the league have the worst line in the league?

Question: Who's second to Kolb's 27 in sacks taken this year with 23?

Answer: Aaron Rodgers and his 68% completion percentage and 16/4 TD to INT ratio.



In 2011 you ask? Alex Smith led the league in sacks taken at 44 and completed 61% of his passes with a 17/5 TD to INT ratio. Third on that list with 40 by the way was Ben Roethlisberger who in 15 games tossed for 4k yards and a 21/14 TD to INT ratio. Those two teams went a combined 25-7 in the regular season/

2010? Jay Cutler who took 52 sacks and still had a 60% completion percentage and 23/16 TD to INT ratio. Flacco was second with 40 and had 62% with 25/10. Bears and the Ravens went 23-9 in regular season.

2009? Roethlisberger and Rodgers tied with 50 sacks taken each. Ben still completed 66% of his passes with a 26/13 TD to INT and his team went 9-7 in a nightmare division. Rodgers went 30/7 TD to INT, the Pack finished 11-5, and only got knocked out duw to Warner having the best game of his career at UoP that afternoon.

 

[Chopper0080]

I trade two firsts and a third round pick to get either Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith. Hell, I trade whatever it takes because you can't really put a price on a franchise QB.

I use FA and what is left of the draft to make some calculated buys for the offensive line. In FA I look at OTs Brandon Albert and Andre Smith. Brandon Albert might be franchised by the Chiefs but they might use it again on Dwayne Bowe. If he is not franchised we are looking at paying about 10 - 11 million per year. Andre Smith will probably command 8 mil and is a RT. This means we shelve Bobby Massie unless he can move to LT. FA OGs are a little bit tougher, however Andy Levitre might be available and would be an upgrade at RG. In the draft I look at OTs Jake Matthews and Lane Johnson in the 2nd round. If we decide to upgrade at OG, we can look into Johnthan Cooper or Travis Frederick, who can also play OC. At OC Khaled Holmes and Travis Frederick.

 

[Mulli]

When did the best QB in the league have the worst line in the league?

Big Ben is a dbag, but he gets the job done with garbage lines.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Big Ben is a dbag, but he gets the job done with garbage lines.

See my previous post. Seems quarterbacks that actually have some modicum of talent (eg not Kolb or Skelton) get the job done despite taking a boatload of sacks.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Question: Who's second to Kolb's 27 in sacks taken this year with 23?

Answer: Aaron Rodgers and his 68% completion percentage and 16/4 TD to INT ratio.



In 2011 you ask? Alex Smith led the league in sacks taken at 44 and completed 61% of his passes with a 17/5 TD to INT ratio. Third on that list with 40 by the way was Ben Roethlisberger who in 15 games tossed for 4k yards and a 21/14 TD to INT ratio. Those two teams went a combined 25-7 in the regular season/

2010? Jay Cutler who took 52 sacks and still had a 60% completion percentage and 23/16 TD to INT ratio. Flacco was second with 40 and had 62% with 25/10. Bears and the Ravens went 23-9 in regular season.

2009? Roethlisberger and Rodgers tied with 50 sacks taken each. Ben still completed 66% of his passes with a 26/13 TD to INT and his team went 9-7 in a nightmare division. Rodgers went 30/7 TD to INT, the Pack finished 11-5, and only got knocked out duw to Warner having the best game of his career at UoP that afternoon.

burn on donald

 

[Mulli]

See my previous post. Seems quarterbacks that actually have some modicum of talent (eg not Kolb or Skelton) get the job done despite taking a boatload of sacks.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

My biggest problem isn't with Kolb's talent per se although I do think he'll never be anything more than a mediocre QB. I agree that yes with everything around him being perfect in an average game he could do well. The problem is that the guy can't take hits. No matter what you are going to be sacked in this league and he has proven three times now that around sack #25 he is usually done for the year in one way or another.

 

[Chopper0080]

My biggest problem isn't with Kolb's talent per se although I do think he'll never be anything more than a mediocre QB. I agree that yes with everything around him being perfect in an average game he could do well. The problem is that the guy can't take hits. No matter what you are going to be sacked in this league and he has proven three times now that around sack #25 he is usually done for the year in one way or another.

Kolb's best is just not at the level you need to be a Super Bowl competitor and that is all I care about.

 

[Gaddabout]

I just laugh at the insinuation that if we draft OL high we can cure poor QB play. Did top two round picks like Big Davis, Anthony Clement, LJ Shelton, Deuce Lutui, and Levi Brown have help our QB's much over the years? Sure we blew it with Plummer and Leinart as well but let's not pretend that one is easier to identify than the other.

And I'd also like to point out that the overwhelming consensus around the NFL for best OT in the league is Joe Thomas and the Cleveland Browns have been horrid every year he has been there. When was the last time the team with the best QB in the league sucked?

OK, so solution: Cards fails to show up for first 3 rounds, letting 'auto-draft' kick in. I've won two FF leagues doing that.

 

[Gaddabout]

If I relent, is it ok, if I don't watch until the Cards gain 300 yards on offense again?

I'll join ya. I did just fine not watching the Cards (or much of any NFL) the previous 10 years. I think I probably got lost and that's how I ended up in this thread. Firing up GPS and finding my way back over to the Suns board, where we're trying to out-do each other with our low expectations.

 

[Gaddabout]

Kolb's best is just not at the level you need to be a Super Bowl competitor and that is all I care about.

But Bobbie Massie is?

Kolb at his best still > than any current offensive tackle on this roster.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

You know I have been on teh Tyler Wilson badnwagon for the last 2 years and I think he'll be the best. However, here's a not so glowing report on him from Russ Lande at the National Football Post:

"6016 (Verified ) 210 (Verified) 4.94 (Verified) Potential 3rd / 4th Round Pick
For a quarterback who entered the 2012 season viewed as a player who could challenge Matt Barkley to be the first quarterback taken in the 203 NFL Draft, his draft stock has been on an elevator straight down. No one questions Wilson’s arm strength and ability to make all the NFL throws with zip and accuracy, but the big issue has been his consistency. Despite the five touchdowns Wilson threw against Kentucky, he has not played with the same confidence and decisiveness that he did a season ago and must improve over the remainder of the season in order to be drafted within the first three rounds. Scouts we have spoken to have real concerns about Wilson’s ability to be a quality starter in the NFL based on his up and down play in 2012".

I have never seen him rated that low, and while Lande is a pretty respectable draft guy, it's only one guy's opinion. If the Cards could somehow manage to get Wilson in round 2, that'd be stealing. OG Channce Warmack in round 1, who more highly regarded than DeCastro, and Wilson in round 2 would be the ultimate draft.

However, I think Wilson goes top 15. The guy I can see the Cards taking is the wrong Tyler, Tyler Bray out of Tennessee. He's big at 6'6 and the guys Whiz has brought in, other than Kolb, have all been big guys with big arms(Scud, Skelton, Lindley) that lack accuracy and Bray fits that bill.

 

[D-Dogg]

burn on donald

Only if you think sacks are the measure of a line. Sacks, hurries, time to throw and hits...highly doubtful ANY of those numbers match ours...then toss in the outstanding rushing numbers to boot.

Worst Oline. Not just "Oline that gives up the most sacks." We are much worse than just letting in a bunch of sacks.

 

[desertdawg]

5 bucks says we don't draft a QB in the first. This thread just jinxed any possibilty.

 

[juza76]

the problem is not kolb ìs performances..but his toughness,he cant stay healthy..he is fragile like a crystal glass, he will be cut just for this reason..they cant count on him for an entire season

 

[desertdawg]

the problem is not kolb ìs performances..but his toughness,he cant stay healthy..he is fragile like a crystal glass, he will be cut just for this reason..they cant count on him for an entire season

Your post is the only thing fragile like glass around here. How many QBs got injured before game 7? Are they all glass? How many of them took more sacks than Kolb?? (none)

With this line it's not if our QBs get hurt...it's when. It's like you haven't watched a game in a month. 66 yards scrambling after the pocket collapses diving head first for firstdowns doesn't say he's tough? Neither does the 25+ sacks he took staying in the "so called" pocket?

I hope you use birth control.

 

[D-Dogg]

Only if you think sacks are the measure of a line. Sacks, hurries, time to throw and hits...highly doubtful ANY of those numbers match ours...then toss in the outstanding rushing numbers to boot.

Worst Oline. Not just "Oline that gives up the most sacks." We are much worse than just letting in a bunch of sacks.

BTW, we are second in hits allowed at 44. Eagles have 51 but only allowed 17 sacks to our 28. And I think we put 20 of those hits on Vick.

Rushing, only the Steelers have fewer YPC than us, and they only have 19 hits and 10 sacks.

GB has 36 hits, but also runs at 4+ per carry, so they can run block a bit, sitting at the middle of the pack (no pun intended) on that stat. Last week when they finally exploded and Rodgers got 6 of those TDs, they only allowed 2 sacks. And that's Aaron Effing Rodgers....who prior to that game was looking rather mediocre. Big wonder, taking hits and having 10 - 4 TD ratio. In comparison, Kolb had an 8-3 ratio, throwing for just under 60%. Kevin freaking Kolb.

I can't find "hurried" stat, but I'm positive we lead the ef out of that one.

Worst oline. Across the board. Hit second most, sacked the most, probably hurried the most and second worst at the run.

QB isn't the problem. It isn't the best position on the field for us, but it certainly isn't the worst. There are at very least 5 guys who stand in front of the QB who are supposed to protect him and open holes for the backs that hold that distinction.

 

[Matt L]

You know I have been on teh Tyler Wilson badnwagon for the last 2 years and I think he'll be the best. However, here's a not so glowing report on him from Russ Lande at the National Football Post:

"6016 (Verified ) 210 (Verified) 4.94 (Verified) Potential 3rd / 4th Round Pick
For a quarterback who entered the 2012 season viewed as a player who could challenge Matt Barkley to be the first quarterback taken in the 203 NFL Draft, his draft stock has been on an elevator straight down. No one questions Wilson’s arm strength and ability to make all the NFL throws with zip and accuracy, but the big issue has been his consistency. Despite the five touchdowns Wilson threw against Kentucky, he has not played with the same confidence and decisiveness that he did a season ago and must improve over the remainder of the season in order to be drafted within the first three rounds. Scouts we have spoken to have real concerns about Wilson’s ability to be a quality starter in the NFL based on his up and down play in 2012".

I have never seen him rated that low, and while Lande is a pretty respectable draft guy, it's only one guy's opinion. If the Cards could somehow manage to get Wilson in round 2, that'd be stealing. OG Channce Warmack in round 1, who more highly regarded than DeCastro, and Wilson in round 2 would be the ultimate draft.

However, I think Wilson goes top 15. The guy I can see the Cards taking is the wrong Tyler, Tyler Bray out of Tennessee. He's big at 6'6 and the guys Whiz has brought in, other than Kolb, have all been big guys with big arms(Scud, Skelton, Lindley) that lack accuracy and Bray fits that bill.

I like Wilson but I do admit he will make a great throw and then follow it up with a terrible decision. ESPN has him listed at 6'1-6'2 range so I can't see him going in the top half of round one. If there is a chance to come out of the draft with Chance Warmack and Tyler Wilson I would be pretty excited. It all depends on where we are picking and I honestly think we finish around 7-9 or 8-8 which means we have to hope Chance falls to us in the teens and then trade up in the mid 20s to pick Wilson!

 

[ASUCHRIS]

My biggest problem isn't with Kolb's talent per se although I do think he'll never be anything more than a mediocre QB. I agree that yes with everything around him being perfect in an average game he could do well. The problem is that the guy can't take hits. No matter what you are going to be sacked in this league and he has proven three times now that around sack #25 he is usually done for the year in one way or another.

Yep. Time to move on and at least try to get an elite QB. The line is certainly 1A, but you cannot win in the NFL without a great QB.

 

[D-Dogg]

Yep. Time to move on and at least try to get an elite QB. The line is certainly 1A, but you cannot win in the NFL without a great QB.

You don't need a great QB. You need a decent to good QB when you have a good to great defense like we have.

A great QB could be good behind this line until he gets killed. A good QB could be good behind a good line, though. We have a better chance of putting together a good oline and good QB than hitting lightning in a bottle for a great QB, hoping he can be good behind this oline and hoping he can stay healthy.

 

[Gaddabout]

You don't need a great QB. You need a decent to good QB when you have a good to great defense like we have.

A great QB could be good behind this line until he gets killed. A good QB could be good behind a good line, though. We have a better chance of putting together a good oline and good QB than hitting lightning in a bottle for a great QB, hoping he can be good behind this oline and hoping he can stay healthy.

Word.

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[ASUCHRIS]

You don't need a great QB. You need a decent to good QB when you have a good to great defense like we have.

A great QB could be good behind this line until he gets killed. A good QB could be good behind a good line, though. We have a better chance of putting together a good oline and good QB than hitting lightning in a bottle for a great QB, hoping he can be good behind this oline and hoping he can stay healthy.

You don't need a great qb for what? To putter around and just hope you sneak in the playoffs? The facts are obvious: the NFL is a QB driven league, and while they're are rare exceptions, if you don't have a great to elite QB, you ain't competing for a championship.

If you're not competing for a championship, or building to that, what is the point? We need a great to elite QB immediately, and until we get one, we shouldn't expect anything but mediocrity.