What should be the asking price be for Hollywood?(Carolina)

[dreamcastrocks]

In my defense I was 28 feet away at the other end of the shuffle board table with a great view to the debacle….. You were in a bar stool about 8 feet away….

I'm more than secure enough to admit that Hollywood is quicker than I am.

 

[BritCard]

This is going to be (another) one of those threads where Brown has a 2 TD 100 yard game on Sunday or a 1100 yard 8 TD season and we look back on this thread and shake our heads.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

This is going to be (another) one of those threads where Brown has a 2 TD 100 yard game on Sunday or a 1100 yard 8 TD season and we look back on this thread and shake our heads.

I don't think so. I think it is a pretty interesting debate on both sides.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

This is going to be (another) one of those threads where Brown has a 2 TD 100 yard game on Sunday or a 1100 yard 8 TD season and we look back on this thread and shake our heads.

65 yards per game!!! Sign that man to a lifetime contract!

Does making an actual difference count? Do you think any defensive coordinator is losing sleep over guarding Hollywood Brown?

 

[Shane]

I'm more than secure enough to admit that Hollywood is quicker than I am.

Me too just taller and stronger

 

[daves]

Nowhere does the tweet… you know… the entire premise of the thread… say anything that claims Brown is a #1 WR.

Nowhere in that tweet does is say Carolina considers Brown a #1 WR. Which is for good reason. Because he’s not.

It's been widely reported that Carolina is looking for a "top tier" "#1 caliber" WR to support Bryce Young.

I linked to a tweet from a "team insider" in the post you quoted, which literally says "The #Panthers are not only looking to trade for a wide receiver, but they want a No. 1 caliber guy."

The tweet at the top of the thread says that they've inquired about the availability of Brown.

Ergo, the premise of this thread entails the Panthers considering Brown a #1 WR. Or are you the one playing semantics?

You’re really gonna make this a semantics argument? This is beneath you, Dave. I guess the 32nd ranked running back is a legit #1 RB too and his value should be treated accordingly as a number 1.

How could you NOT consider the any of the top 32 ranked RBs a #1 RB? Obviously the closer you get to #32, the more they'd be considered lower-end #1 players, but still starting caliber RBs.

Right now the #32 rusher is Rhamondre Stevenson, whom the Patriots certainly consider a #1 RB. The #32 RB is Tyler Allgeier, who was a #1 RB with over 1000 yards at 4.9 yards per rush last year, who's still in the top 32 even with Bijan Robinson dominating the team's carries, and who would be a #1 RB on many teams.

I guess you're actually arguing with me because you have your own definition of what makes a #1 WR that doesn't include ones that are in the top 32 in the league in yards, receptions, and TDs?

Please let me know your approved list of #1 WRs so I won't be so wrong next time. It's especially important since the main point of my post was totally focused on insisting that Brown is a #1 WR.

BTW in addition to being in the top 32 this season, Brown was 28th in yards per game last season even with Hopkins on the team, and 14th in yards per game in 2021 when he was the #1 WR for the Ravens. Oops I guess I shouldn't say he was a #1 WR until I see your approved list. Really looking forward to that!

you can’t separate this season from what happens after when talking about an expiring asset.

Apparently you're the only one who thinks this response is relevant to the point of my post, which is simply that if the Panthers allegedly value Brown as someone who would support Young, the Cardinals should also value him to support Murray.

He's an expiring asset for the Panthers also, unless he's extended - and either team could extend his contract, so again... how is that relevant to my post?

You're going to have to pay someone. Hollywood isn't a "bad" wide receiver. He's one of the worst #1 receivers in the league, but he's a perfectly cromulent starter and would be a good second option on a good team.

But I'd trade him for a 2025 second rounder in a heartbeat.

Agree 100% with this. But K9, prepare for a beat down from @cheesebeef for insisting that Brown is a #1 receiver!

 

[WakeForestCard]

65 yards per game!!! Sign that man to a lifetime contract!

Does making an actual difference count? Do you think any defensive coordinator is losing sleep over guarding Hollywood Brown?

Are we scoffing at 65 yards/game or an 1100-yard season?

Maybe that doesn't fit as making an actual difference maker in your book, but since the league went to 17 games (2020) there's been an average of 21 players getting 65 yards/game (regardless of games played) and an average of 14 players hitting the 1100 yard mark.

Would be a good season for me. Especially when there's, what, like 5 WRs DCs would actually lose sleep over?

 

[kerouac9]

Are we scoffing at 65 yards/game or an 1100-yard season?

Maybe that doesn't fit as making an actual difference maker in your book, but since the league went to 17 games (2020) there's been an average of 21 players getting 65 yards/game (regardless of games played) and an average of 14 players hitting the 1100 yard mark.

Would be a good season for me. Especially when there's, what, like 5 WRs DCs would actually lose sleep over?

Garrett Wilson
Justin Jefferson
Tyreek Hill
A.J. Brown
Stefon Diggs
Ja'Marr Chase
D.K. Metcalf
Deebo Samuel

Marquise Brown has 2 more yards receiving this season than Michael Wilson -- on twice as many targets.

Tiny possession receiver.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Are we scoffing at 65 yards/game or an 1100-yard season?

Maybe that doesn't fit as making an actual difference maker in your book, but since the league went to 17 games (2020) there's been an average of 21 players getting 65 yards/game (regardless of games played) and an average of 14 players hitting the 1100 yard mark.

Would be a good season for me. Especially when there's, what, like 5 WRs DCs would actually lose sleep over?

Those are fine numbers, but nothing elite.

I'm not giving top 10 money to a guy who isn't top 20, and isn't a difference maker in the locker room. I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

 

[WakeForestCard]

Garrett Wilson
Justin Jefferson
Tyreek Hill
A.J. Brown
Stefon Diggs
Ja'Marr Chase
D.K. Metcalf
Deebo Samuel

Marquise Brown has 2 more yards receiving this season than Michael Wilson -- on twice as many targets.

Tiny possession receiver.

Guess it's just interesting a lot of the people who want to dump Hollywood are the same ones that were irate that we let people of the Byron Murphy / Zach Allen caliber go. Same level of player in my book.

 

[WakeForestCard]

Those are fine numbers, but nothing elite.

I'm not giving top 10 money to a guy who isn't top 20, and isn't a difference maker in the locker room. I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

Well, sure. The price tag will dictate everything. Just saying that he's not a bad player.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Guess it's just interesting a lot of the people who want to dump Hollywood are the same ones that were irate that we let people of the Byron Murphy / Zach Allen caliber go. Same level of player in my book.

It's not interesting... the point is spending the money WISELY and we'd be overpaying Hollywood to the tune of 20 MILLION A YEAR, while Murphy got 8 million per year and even Zach got only 16 million per year. Those were both REASONABLE contracts.

If Hollywood ended up settling for anywhere between 8 million and 16 million, by all means, sign the short, young possession WR. But you don't overpay for that guy.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well, sure. The price tag will dictate everything. Just saying that he's not a bad player.

neither has anyone else.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Well, sure. The price tag will dictate everything. Just saying that he's not a bad player.

For sure! Nobody thinks he's bad. He's a good player, just not a great one. If you pay a guy like Hollywood top 10 money, you're not likely to get top 10 production, and it'll likely eat up a big cap hit.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Context matters.

Paying the right players at the right positions is key - yes, WR is a very valuable position, but paying top money to a good but not great undersized player seems risky to me.

I get it. I also get why people want to trade him. Even I'm torn on the subject.

Throw in the fact that we have a lot of cap space and letting him walk for nothing won't likely provide a comp pick, I'm leaning towards re-signing.

Hollywood ain't the guy for me. Too small, not a leader, and not productive enough to justify a monster contract.

I'd be willing to give a contract that pays him about 20M and gives us an out after 2 years with relatively low cap space. It would depend on the numbers.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Their QB creates challenges in that regard.

I'll ask you - where do you think Hollywood is in the WR hierarchy? Are you comfortable paying him top 10 WR money? Doesn't block, good but not great #'s, too small - what is the appeal? Why pay a guy like that big money?

I think he can do more with the right QB and right play calls. Murray out up pretty solid numbers with him and that was with Murray missing on pretty much every deep shot to Hollywood.

Unless the Cardinals sign an expensive WR (unlikely) the cost won't matter much of you have Hollywood, a 1st round WR, and cheap Michael Wilson.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

For sure! Nobody thinks he's bad. He's a good player, just not a great one. If you pay a guy like Hollywood top 10 money, you're not likely to get top 10 production, and it'll likely eat up a big cap hit.

That's the rub again. Murphy and Allen were the same. Good players, not great.

You either let young talented players walk, or you pay the market rate.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

If Hollywood ended up settling for anywhere between 8 million and 16 million, by all means, sign the short, young possession WR. But you don't overpay for that guy.

20M isn't really an overpay for a WR anymore. It's the going rate.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It's not interesting... the point is spending the money WISELY and we'd be overpaying Hollywood to the tune of 20 MILLION A YEAR, while Murphy got 8 million per year and even Zach got only 16 million per year. Those were both REASONABLE contracts.

If Hollywood ended up settling for anywhere between 8 million and 16 million, by all means, sign the short, young possession WR. But you don't overpay for that guy.

Heh that Zach Allen contract doesn't look reasonable right now. Ledbetter is having a better season on a fraction of the cost

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's the rub again. Murphy and Allen were the same. Good players, not great.

You either let young talented players walk, or you pay the market rate.

Good lord. Murphy and Allen’s contracts wouldn’t be anywhere near what a “#1” WR would be. That’s where the situations are NOTHING alike. Those guys got good contracts for good players. You’re advocating signing a good player to a great player deal.

That makes zero sense, especially in light of you defending the team not giving Allen or Murphy contracts that didn’t break the bank.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

If I knew that we would be able to draft MHJ, I wouldn't re-sign Hollywood. The good news is that we won't likely need to make a decision on re-signing him or not until the offseason.

 

[Cheesebeef]

20M isn't really an overpay for a WR anymore. It's the going rate.

For teams who waste their cap space like idiots.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Good lord. Murphy and Allen’s contracts wouldn’t be anywhere near what a “#1” WR would be. That’s where the situations are NOTHING alike. Those guys got good contracts for good players. You’re advocating signing a good player to a great player deal.

Byron only got a one year deal, so I agree.

Allen got 16M, so let's not act like 16 and 20M are super far apart.

That makes zero sense, especially in light of you defending the team not giving Allen or Murphy contracts that didn’t break the bank.

I'm not defending it at all. I have already stated multiple times that I wanted to keep both players. I simply pointed out the weird stance.

 

[kerouac9]

Heh that Zach Allen contract doesn't look reasonable right now. Ledbetter is having a better season on a fraction of the cost

Fake news. Allen has played in 4 games to Ledbetter's 3. Allen has six QB hits and three TFLs to Ledbetter's 1 and 0.

You're hanging a lot on an additional half-sack.

And here's the real clincher: there was no need to choose. The Cards could have easily had both. Imagine having IDL depth.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Fake news. Allen has played in 4 games to Ledbetter's 3. Allen has six QB hits and three TFLs to Ledbetter's 1 and 0.

You're hanging a lot on an additional half-sack.

And here's the real clincher: there was no need to choose. The Cards could have easily had both. Imagine having IDL depth.

That's a lot of coin for a bunch of almost plays.

Imagine using that money on a real impact player!