What should be the asking price be for Hollywood?(Carolina)

[kerouac9]

That's a lot of coin for a bunch of almost plays.

Imagine using that money on a real impact player!

It's still early in the season. It's not that much coin when you're paying your starting defense the least amount in the NFL; it just means you have spread the risk across more guys who can play in the NFL. God forbid.

 

[Krangodnzr]

It's still early in the season. It's not that much coin when you're paying your starting defense the least amount in the NFL; it just means you have spread the risk across more guys who can play in the NFL. God forbid.

Eh you have to save money if you might take a huge dead cap on your QB.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

For teams who waste their cap space like idiots.

You and I clearly have differences on how to manage the cap.

People love to bang on the James Conner contract drum, and yet he is earning that 10M cap number he is has right now. Also, while seemingly forgetting or dismissing the fact that he had what 16TDs on a 2M cap number. Conner's 7M average isn't as bad as people say. Maybe the people that are saying his contract is atrocious are the ones that aren't correct.

Apparently a plan you’d want to follow.

I wouldn't be very thrilled about it. But at this point with 65M in cap space and Hollywood's first year cap number probably around the 8-10M mark, it would be better than letting him walk for nothing.

But hey, go ahead and continue this narrative, when I have said that I'm 60/40 in favor of signing him vs trading.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Eh you have to save money if you might take a huge dead cap on your QB.

I don't see that being an option at all. Wasting 90M in cap space, just to let a player go means that you likely can't sign anyone at all in FA. It would totally be the Cards thing to do though.

 

[CardNots]

Hollywood was acquired as a #2 receiver. We don’t have a #1 receiver at least right now. I would seriously consider trading Hollywood for a #2 pick from Carolina. I would extend Brown for #2 receiver money otherwise he is replaceable. I say if no trade try to sign him on the cheap or adios.

 

[PACardsFan]

Hollywood was acquired as a #2 receiver. We don’t have a #1 receiver at least right now. I would seriously consider trading Hollywood for a #2 pick from Carolina. I would extend Brown for #2 receiver money otherwise he is replaceable. I say if no trade try to sign him on the cheap or adios.

Is Carolina actually thinking about offering a 2nd round pick? I’d be shocked if that were the case. I don’t see the Cardinals trading Hollywood. It would create problems in the locker room, and the FO would avoid that. And he’s been too valuable on the field also.

 

[oaken1]

Kind of to play devil's advocate here, but if Hollywood signed the eighth-richest contract among WRs tomorrow, He'd be in the top 12-15 by this time next year. I don't think that's a big deal, one way or the other. Particularly when you're going to surround him with cheap players and rookies for the guaranteed years of that deal.

You're going to have to pay someone. Hollywood isn't a "bad" wide receiver. He's one of the worst #1 receivers in the league, but he's a perfectly cromulent starter and would be a good second option on a good team.

But I'd trade him for a 2025 second rounder in a heartbeat.


Okay.

we line up MHJ on one side with Mike Wilson on the other...and Hollywood in the slot...
thats looking like a pretty serious lineup.

 

[oaken1]

I wouldnt be upset if we gave him something like 5 years for 90mil
50mil guaranteed. yearly salaries of 14mil the first 2 years then about 4mil each of the last 3 years... average of 18mil a year.... take the cap hit while Wilson is on his rookie deal...after 2 years the cap hit drops to 14mil a year...and since we already paid his bonus he would be extremely tradable if we drafter MHJ...and Rondale or Dortch stepped up and we didnt need Hollywood any longer..... the 2 years up front with a 24mil hit should be enough to smooth any egos involved.

 

[oaken1]

Lets tell the Panthers they can have Hollywood and a 4th for Brian Burns....

 

[BritCard]

Fake news. Allen has played in 4 games to Ledbetter's 3. Allen has six QB hits and three TFLs to Ledbetter's 1 and 0.

You're hanging a lot on an additional half-sack.

And here's the real clincher: there was no need to choose. The Cards could have easily had both. Imagine having IDL depth.

Games don't mean anything with DL. It's snaps.

Allen has played 225 vs Ledbetters 141.

QB hits is a pretty week stat to be hanging that contract on.

Ledbetter has a sack, 1 hurry, 2 pressures, 0 TFLs and 12 tackles on 141 snaps.

Allen has 0.5 sacks, 2 hurries, 4 pressures, 3 TFLs and 18 tackles on 225 snaps.

Allen is getting paid 19x what Ledbetter is getting paid.

I'd much rather have Ledbetter and having both would be terrible because Allen is vastly overpaid. The Broncos fans are crapping all over Paton for signing him for that money.

 

[Phrazbit]

Trading away a #1 for Brown was stupid.

Paying Brown 20-25 million a year is doubling down on that stupid.

Trade him. The team should have no appetite for signing a low tier #2 receiver to a premium contract. I hope we can get a 2nd round pick out of it but I wouldn't complain about a 3rd.

I realize this won't make Kyler happy but we simply can't waste money like that on a player who is only marginally better than tiny slot guys that can be found for the minimum year after year.

Even if we don't trade him, if 20+ million ends up being the going rate, then we should let him walk... let another team make that mistake.

 

[Phrazbit]

I still feel fine about letting Kirk walk and Kirk was demonstrably better and a full 2 years younger than Brown when we let it happen.

However... letting Kirk walk and then using a 1st to trade for Brown to replace him was bonkers.

 

[Proximo]

Guess it's just interesting a lot of the people who want to dump Hollywood are the same ones that were irate that we let people of the Byron Murphy / Zach Allen caliber go. Same level of player in my book.

um no, Hollywood is a step above those guys.

 

[Proximo]

I still feel fine about letting Kirk walk and Kirk was demonstrably better and a full 2 years younger than Brown when we let it happen.

However... letting Kirk walk and then using a 1st to trade for Brown to replace him was bonkers.

BS. Hollywoood is absolutely better than Kirk.

 

[Cheesebeef]

BS. Hollywoood is absolutely better than Kirk.

By literally ZERO metric is this true. Kirk averages more yards per game for his career. At the same point in Brown and Kirk’s career, Kirk has more yards. Kirk has had seasons of 1100 and over 900 yards, while Brown’s best two seasons he’s had 1008 and 769 yards. Kirk averages more yards per catch.

Hollywood Brown (WR) Stats, News, Rumors, Bio, Video - Kansas City Chiefs

Sports News, Scores, Fantasy Games

sports.yahoo.com

Christian Kirk (WR) Stats, News, Rumors, Bio, Video - Jacksonville Jaguars

Sports News, Scores, Fantasy Games

sports.yahoo.com

Kirk is also healthier. And guess what… I wouldn’t have signed Kirk to that ridiculous contract and I bet if Jacksonville could get a do over right now, they wouldn’t either.

 

[PDXChris]

Claypool on the move again. Carolina could have had him for peanuts. These picks could be 5 to 10 picks a part.

She said the Bears will send Claypool and 2025 seventh-round pick to Miami in exchange for a 2025 sixth-rounder.

And wow, Chicago got fleeced in the original trade.

The Bears on Tuesday bolstered their offense by acquiring veteran receiver Chase Claypool from the Steelers in exchange for a 2023 second-round pick, pending a physical

 

[kerouac9]

Hollywood isn't getting traded; this is just an interesting starting point for a conversation about his value.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Hollywood isn't getting traded; this is just an interesting starting point for a conversation about his value.

If Hollywood isn't getting traded, then we need to re-sign him.

 

[BritCard]

Long way to go yet. I want to see how the rest of the season goes before we talk about if we should resign him and what he's worth.

I also want to see how Wilson develops.

It really depends what the FO strategy is too. If it's make to make a real push the next 2 years (which I think we have to) then I could make a solid argument for signing Mike Evans. He will be 31 just before next season but I see no sign of him dropping off and no injury issues. Possible you can make the same case for Tee Higgins or Michael Pittman.

I think we would get much more out of Evans for £21m than Brown for £19m.

You can also argue that if Mike Wilson can be a WR1 then you can get enough out of Rondale, Pascal and a rookie.

 

[kerouac9]

If Hollywood isn't getting traded, then we need to re-sign him.

For what? Haven't we learned from the first four games that it's fun to kind of compete? Do we need to have 100% galaxy-brained thinking all the time?

I'd trade Hollywood for a 2025 second or a 2024 third (I guess).

Long way to go yet. I want to see how the rest of the season goes before we talk about if we should resign him and what he's worth.

I also want to see how Wilson develops.

It really depends what the FO strategy is too. If it's make to make a real push the next 2 years (which I think we have to) then I could make a solid argument for signing Mike Evans. He will be 31 just before next season but I see no sign of him dropping off and no injury issues. Possible you can make the same case for Tee Higgins or Michael Pittman.

I think we would get much more out of Evans for £21m than Brown for £19m.

You can also argue that if Mike Wilson can be a WR1 then you can get enough out of Rondale, Pascal and a rookie.

I dunno. We have four-plus years of data on Hollywood Brown to evaluate him. His price tag will only go up as the season goes along.

I do think we shouldn't leave Rondale out of this conversation. If Michael Wilson shows he can stay healthy for 14+ games and Rondale can as well, it really relieves the pressure on keeping Hollywood Brown.

Here's the other thing, though: Mike Tannenbaum was on Kevin Clark's podcast last week. He said the biggest mistake he made was bringing in a free agent and making him the highest-paid guy in the room. It just upset the chemistry of the group.

 

[Chopper0080]

Just some quick thoughts

1 - Marquise Brown is likely going to ask for a 20 mil per year deal and find it in FA.

2 - He has not shown to be a consistent vertical threat WR like most top end players and does not have size you want in a possession player. (His profile might be worst possible scenario in terms of the impact of aging)

3 - This is a very nice WR draft class.

4 - There is no guarantees of future comp picks.

5 - In terms of potential contract and compensation, DJ Moore and Kirk are the comps. Moore is obviously better but is the player involved in the trade. Davante Adams equated to a 1st and 2nd. Brown initially a late 1st. I think it is fair market rate for a 2nd round pick for him even with the need for a new contract. The market is the market.

(Personally, I would take a 3rd but I feel that is debatable)

 

[dreamcastrocks]

For what? Haven't we learned from the first four games that it's fun to kind of compete? Do we need to have 100% galaxy-brained thinking all the time?

Why keep a young, talented player?

I'd trade Hollywood for a 2025 second or a 2024 third (I guess).

Didn't you just say he wasn't getting traded?

Here's the other thing, though: Mike Tannenbaum was on Kevin Clark's podcast last week. He said the biggest mistake he made was bringing in a free agent and making him the highest-paid guy in the room. It just upset the chemistry of the group.

If that's the case, every locker room would be a mess. Only one, or maybe two if they are lucky get new contracts per year.

 

[Chopper0080]

Overall in terms of sales standpoint, what players are available for a team like Carolina?

 

[Chopper0080]

Mike Evans? Davante Adams? Tee Higgins? (who is hurt)

My argument is that the price tag is impacted by the competition in the market. I just don't see the competition that will drive down the cost of Marquise Brown.

 

[Proximo]

By literally ZERO metric is this true. Kirk averages more yards per game for his career. At the same point in Brown and Kirk’s career, Kirk has more yards. Kirk has had seasons of 1100 and over 900 yards, while Brown’s best two seasons he’s had 1008 and 769 yards. Kirk averages more yards per catch.

Hollywood Brown (WR) Stats, News, Rumors, Bio, Video - Kansas City Chiefs

Sports News, Scores, Fantasy Games

sports.yahoo.com

Christian Kirk (WR) Stats, News, Rumors, Bio, Video - Jacksonville Jaguars

Sports News, Scores, Fantasy Games

sports.yahoo.com

Kirk is also healthier. And guess what… I wouldn’t have signed Kirk to that ridiculous contract and I bet if Jacksonville could get a do over right now, they wouldn’t either.

Brown has had Lamar Jackson passing for him the majority of his career, no receiver looks great when he is the guy passing to them.

Last year he started out on fire with Kyler - that is the real player. The stats just don't tell the whole story, Brown has better hands and gets more open than kirk.