What should the Cardinals do on Black Monday?

[Stout]

I have ambitions to screw Gal Gadot but I'm not going to leave my wife in anticipation.

We can live in fairy land, or we can be realistic.

Dude, you think that anything that doesn't adhere to your extremely rigid thought processes is "living in fairy land." Multiple folks here have given solid reasons for firing Kliffy. Disagree away. But everyone that doesn't think or believe like you is not living in fairy land.

Try this common cognitive concept on for size: Thoughts are not facts.

 

[kerouac9]

The window to be successful as an NFL HC is the smallest it's ever been and you only get one shot. It's extremely rare to get two.

And you're going to gamble your whole career as a HC on any QB with a late season ACL tear handcuffed to a top 4 contract you can't get out of for years without crippling cap consequences? I don't care who that QB is but especially one that was already playing poorly and his only bright spot has been his quick twitch mobility. Anyone that takes the job this year is facing the not insignificant gamble of sucking for the next 3 years because you're paying a hobbled QB 22% of your cap space.

Kyler was already extremely averse to getting hit. Can you imagine him with less mobilty and no ability to escape with his pocket presense?

Sorry I just don't see it.

There was already only a very small chance a top candidate would come here and Kyler's injury just made it practically none existent. The only way you get a Payton or anyone else is if Mike throws all the money at him and makes them one of the highest paid HC's in the league to the point they can't refuse.

But considering Payton would likely get highly paid anywhere he went I don't see that working either.

Yeah. I just disagree with this. Nat Hackett is probably going to get another year. Josh McDaniels is going to get another year (and he's on his second chance). Steve Wilks might actually stick as HC of the Panthers. Doug Pederson got a second chance.

Obviously, if you do the most negative possible sales positioning on Kyler Murray and the franchise, you're going to struggle to find a good replacement head coach or GM. It's critical that Michael Bidwill (or, God forbid, Keim) have the right message about this. The Cards will know more about Kyler's recovery by January when they're running the search (although they should fire Keim now and start searching for a GM immediately).

There's a fair argument to be made that the Cards could trade out of their top 5 pick (because they have a good amount of top-end roster talent) and fill in the gaps on the lines pretty easily. You're talking to guys who think they're good at what they do -- they'll be excited to not probably have to accomplish the most difficult task in the NFL: finding a quality QB.

Now, if they walk in the door as skeptical about the future of this franchise as you are, then they're probably not the right guy from Jump Street, and it's on to the next one.

 

[BritCard]

Dude, you think that anything that doesn't adhere to your extremely rigid thought processes is "living in fairy land." Multiple folks here have given solid reasons for firing Kliffy. Disagree away. But everyone that doesn't think or believe like you is not living in fairy land.

Try this common cognitive concept on for size: Thoughts are not facts.

It's fairy land. It just is. If you think we fire Keim and Kliff and in comes Payton and some pocket GM and turns everything around and we win the 2024 superbowl.

Yes, there are loads of reasons to fire Kliff. But this isn't about Kliff.

What use is firing Kliff if it makes us worse and prolongs the pain? Because that's far more likely to happen in the current situation.

Getting someone like Payton was hard enough before, it's nigh on impossible now.

Nobody worth crap is coming here as HC shackled to a possible RG3 earning top 4 league money. That's how everyone will see it. That's why nobody as far as I can see as ever fired their HC with a starting QB out with a major injury. Certainly not in recent times.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I am still in favor of the mass suicide idea.

Not cool or funny at all. I don't want to see posts like these again.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

There's a fair argument to be made that the Cards could trade out of their top 5 pick (because they have a good amount of top-end roster talent) and fill in the gaps on the lines pretty easily.

This is something I hadn't thought of yet this year. Trading out of the top 5 is something that I hope we consider if Keim is out of the way. I wouldn't trust him to make this deal.

 

[BritCard]

Yeah. I just disagree with this. Nat Hackett is probably going to get another year. Josh McDaniels is going to get another year (and he's on his second chance). Steve Wilks might actually stick as HC of the Panthers. Doug Pederson got a second chance.

Obviously, if you do the most negative possible sales positioning on Kyler Murray and the franchise, you're going to struggle to find a good replacement head coach or GM. It's critical that Michael Bidwill (or, God forbid, Keim) have the right message about this. The Cards will know more about Kyler's recovery by January when they're running the search (although they should fire Keim now and start searching for a GM immediately).

There's a fair argument to be made that the Cards could trade out of their top 5 pick (because they have a good amount of top-end roster talent) and fill in the gaps on the lines pretty easily. You're talking to guys who think they're good at what they do -- they'll be excited to not probably have to accomplish the most difficult task in the NFL: finding a quality QB.

Now, if they walk in the door as skeptical about the future of this franchise as you are, then they're probably not the right guy from Jump Street, and it's on to the next one.

I said 2nd chances are rare, not impossible. Naming a couple of the rarities doesn't change that, especially when one of them won a superbowl. For every one that gets another shot there are at least 20 that don't.

And I'm not being pessimistic. I'm being realistic.

The odds of firing Kliff in this cycle and getting stuck with a crappy retread are infinately higher than attracting a top talent. So why risk it? Why not wait until everyone knows Kyler is back to full health and vastly increase your chances of getting a top guy?

Because you're angry and want to punish Kliff?

 

[Lomax to Green 84]

I think the stars are all lining up for a major house cleaning. Rod Graves got 10 years as GM and he produced 4 playoff wins and a Super Bowl berth. The wheels fell off in 2012 and he was let go. Keim will have 10 years and 1 playoff win. Both Mr. B and Michael value loyalty up to a point, but 10 years seems like the time frame to justify dumping Keim. Bob Ferguson came in after 1995 and hired Vince Tobin. Rod Graves hired Denny Green, and Keim hired BA. History shows that a GM firing also means the head coach goes as well and there is a fresh start. I sure hope Michael continues this trend!!

 

[TRW]

Probably no change after this year. I hope that I am wrong. Got to get Keim and Kliff outta here and let a new GM and HC go for it.
Bah, who am i kidding? SOC will muck it up anyway.

 

[DVontel]

This is something I hadn't thought of yet this year. Trading out of the top 5 is something that I hope we consider if Keim is out of the way. I wouldn't trust him to make this deal.

Depends.

If we’re in the top 3 with Will Anderson or Jalen Carter on the board, we damn sure better not trade back.

If we’re not? Sure.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Depends.

If we’re in the top 3 with Will Anderson or Jalen Carter on the board, we damn sure better not trade back.

If we’re not? Sure.

I want Carter. I wanted Jordan Davis last year too. Other than that, I'm fine with the trade down.

 

[kerouac9]

I said 2nd chances are rare, not impossible. Naming a couple of the rarities doesn't change that, especially when one of them won a superbowl. For every one that gets another shot there are at least 20 that don't.

And I'm not being pessimistic. I'm being realistic.

The odds of firing Kliff in this cycle and getting stuck with a crappy retread are infinately higher than attracting a top talent. So why risk it? Why not wait until everyone knows Kyler is back to full health and vastly increase your chances of getting a top guy?

Because you're angry and want to punish Kliff?

There are a lot of bad head coaching hires, too. Most of these guys seem to land on their feet; not everyone is qualified to be an NFL head coach. Hard to say Nick Saban is worse off for having left the Dolphins. Some guys don't want to come back.

A lot of this is what the Brian Flores suit is about — it's hard to get a second chance when you're a defensive head coach because the emphasis is on offense so much and people are still looking for Their Sean McVay who can add value at the QB position. Also, you're looking at a group of 32 head coaches and a handful of seats that are never open (like Belicheck's and Tomlin's). So having a handful of guys who repeat through the process over the past decade (including Jim Caldwell) is significant. Bowles and Rivera are also rehires.

I think the non-Kyler stuff with Kliff is the reason you probably need to fire him (and I'm a Kliff defender). The penalties, inability to get plays in on time, awful 2-minute drills, etc. are all things that indicate that he's not able to do this job no matter who is QB.

If those are worked out and not a problem over the next handful of games, I think he has more of an argument to stay on and help manage the offseason and period without Kyler. If Kliff struggles but Kyler comes back 100% and looks great, it's definitely a more attractive job.

I just don't think you're going to get the best people here regardless.

 

[NWMike]

Right now we sit at 6 and in Walter Football's latest mock they have all 3 of the top D line guys gone by then (Seahawks, Bears and Eagles all go D-line). The other two picks are Qb's so in that scenario I think you have to trade back to a team looking to move up for one of the other QB's. On a side note how depressing is it that the Eagles have the best record in the NFL and still own a top 5 pick?

 

[DVontel]

I want Carter. I wanted Jordan Davis last year too. Other than that, I'm fine with the trade down.

You wouldn’t want Will Anderson?

 

[mjb21aztd]

Go to kliffy man cave keim will bring the beer and Murray bring cod to celebrate exp week

Not looking bright for any az sports team including asu lol

Bad time to be a az sports fan

 

[oaken1]

It's fairy land. It just is. If you think we fire Keim and Kliff and in comes Payton and some pocket GM and turns everything around and we win the 2024 superbowl.

Yes, there are loads of reasons to fire Kliff. But this isn't about Kliff.

What use is firing Kliff if it makes us worse and prolongs the pain? Because that's far more likely to happen in the current situation.

Getting someone like Payton was hard enough before, it's nigh on impossible now.

Nobody worth crap is coming here as HC shackled to a possible RG3 earning top 4 league money. That's how everyone will see it. That's why nobody as far as I can see as ever fired their HC with a starting QB out with a major injury. Certainly not in recent times.

payton signed a qb with a totally blown out throwing shoulder and designed an offense around him without seeing him play a post injury nfl game.

kyler being a qb,...especially a qb that throws one of the best deep balls in the league...a knee injury isnt that scarey to most coaches.
if anything, they see a young man who is now motivated to improve on the mental side of his game which is what he needed all along anyway.

limiting his mobility just makes the lights shine brighter on murrays height,...or lack thereof..
the kid can pass the ball like Dan Marino,... but Marino only survived his knee injuries because he could see the field.

So,.... got a QB that is too short by NFL standards but throws the ball really well??,,,but his mobility is not the best?? Coming off a devastating injury??

Sean Payton already took that guy to the super bowl

 

[Devilmaycare]

I want them both gone. Have for the last couple years. One thing I would consider though is only firing Keim if back channels tell us that we can't get someone like Payton. Keep Kliff for one more year under the new GM as a form of tanking to set the new GM up with assets for the the 2024 rebuild. Kliff in, Kyler out, and some other roaster moves can set the Cards up for a top pick.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You wouldn’t want Will Anderson?

Not particularly. I think he will be a great player, but it isn't the position I want to invest a top 5 pick.

 

[schutd]

The window to be successful as an NFL HC is the smallest it's ever been and you only get one shot. It's extremely rare to get two.

McDaniel - Still seems to suck.
Wilks....WILKS!!!!!! And hes still in the playoff picture.

So, rare or not, It happens, and apparently, even the worst coach ever, may have just been hamstrung by his lack of experience, and 2 buffoons running the show....

 

[DVontel]

Not particularly. I think he will be a great player, but it isn't the position I want to invest a top 5 pick.

You don’t want to invest a pick on a potentially-elite pass-rusher? That’s exactly what we need. That’s what every team needs.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

You don’t want to invest a pick on a potentially-elite pass-rusher? That’s exactly what we need. That’s what every team needs.

Sadly no. We have other more major pressing needs on this team right now.

 

[DVontel]

Sadly no. We have other more major pressing needs on this team right now.

Like pass-rush/EDGE.

Interior OLine is right there with it, but you don’t waste a top 3 pick on a iOL.

With how volatile the position is in todays era, I would not draft a CB that high either.

Pass Rush/EDGE is the most important/valuable non-QB position in the league. You don’t just write that off despite having slightly bigger needs at much more less valuable positions.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Like pass-rush/EDGE.

Interior OLine is right there with it, but you don’t waste a top 3 pick on a iOL.

With how volatile the position is in todays era, I would not draft a CB that high either.

Pass Rush/EDGE is the most important/valuable non-QB position in the league. You don’t just write that off despite having slightly bigger needs at much more less valuable positions.

I don't disagree with everything that you are saying.

With that said:

1. We just spent 2 3rd round picks and both of them show promise.
2. I also don't think we should draft a top 3 pick on an interior lineman. That is why I am a big proponent of trading down. There will be a QB that someone covets if the pick is 3 for example.
3. We have WAY to many holes on this team. Trading a top 5 pick, moving into the 10-15 range and picking up a couple 1st/2nd round picks is what this team should do long term.
4. Even a player of Anderson's quality wouldn't make us a good/great defense.
5. There's no guarantee that even if we drafted Anderson, he would start/play right away. In fact, recent history tells us otherwise.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Like pass-rush/EDGE.

Interior OLine is right there with it, but you don’t waste a top 3 pick on a iOL.

With how volatile the position is in todays era, I would not draft a CB that high either.

Pass Rush/EDGE is the most important/valuable non-QB position in the league. You don’t just write that off despite having slightly bigger needs at much more less valuable positions.

Without a doubt. An elite pass rusher can transform an entire defense.

I’m not that tuned into college prospects this year. Is there a Bosa-esque kinda guy out there that could slip to 3 if we bottom out the rest of the year?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Without a doubt. An elite pass rusher can transform an entire defense.

I’m not that tuned into college prospects this year. Is there a Bosa-esque kinda guy out there that could slip to 3 if we bottom out the rest of the year?

Of course it can. SF's was stacked, even when they drafted him though. Our line may be completely gutted.
JJ is likely gone next year and we don't even know if we will/will be able to resign Allen next year.

 

[DVontel]

1. We just spent 2 3rd round picks and both of them show promise.

You don’t pass up an elite prospect just because you drafted supplementary pieces.

3. We have WAY to many holes on this team. Trading a top 5 pick, moving into the 10-15 range and picking up a couple 1st/2nd round picks is what this team should do long term.

This sounds much better in one’s head than actually doing. It’s not that easy to get a dancing partner that’s paying compensation where you’re not feeling ripped off. Not to mention, you don’t pass up an elite prospect for multiple lesser prospects.

Even a player of Anderson's quality wouldn't make us a good/great defense.

It would be a start. You realize drafting Jalen Carter also wouldn’t make us a good/great defense off-rip, right?

There's no guarantee that even if we drafted Anderson, he would start/play right away. In fact, recent history tells us otherwise.

You could say this about Jalen Carter or any other player in history.