What to do with Scola?

[ASUCHRIS]

I think if Gortat could have been extended to a reasonable contract (definitely not a bloated contract), he would have remained a valuable trade asset both now or into the future. The Suns would have control of his destiny without fear of losing him for nothing when he becomes a FA.

True, but with FA coming up after this year, I doubt the Suns had much leverage. Knowing how even average players get overpaid in FA, and that the Suns won't be a contender anytime soon, it's hard to imagine him taking a hometown discount to stay.

If Len did not have health concerns, I would be for getting him as many minutes as possible.

Terrifying that this is the case before he even puts on a Suns uniform. Really hope that McD knows what he's doing.

 

[carey]

Gortat was never going to extend because when you sign an extension you're only eligible for a certain % as a raise. I imagine he wants something like $10Mil a year and he wouldn't be able to get that as an extension. I don't think the front office wants to sign him to that amount either. I agree that they probably would take him back on another $7Mil/yr deal for 3 years but highly doubt he takes that.

 

[sunsfan88]

Gortat's gonna try and get Pekovic type money which is looking like a 4 year $50 million contract.

 

[Mainstreet]

Gortat's gonna try and get Pekovic type money which is looking like a 4 year $50 million contract.

It's not hard to see why the Suns drafted a center who some draft sites had going number 1 in the draft.

 

[elindholm]

Gortat was never going to extend because when you sign an extension you're only eligible for a certain % as a raise.

Are you sure about that? Is there a special provision for players coming off of their rookie contracts? Or is it that the Suns don't have Gortat's Bird rights?

 

[sunsfan88]

It's not hard to see why the Suns drafted a center who some draft sites had going number 1 in the draft.

Agreed. I just think that some people are mad because most draft sites had Noel as #1 C in the draft and thought that had the Cavs taken Len as the #1 overall pick, it would have been a reach just like when they drafted Thompson and Waiters.

 

[Phrazbit]

Agreed. I just think that some people are mad because most draft sites had Noel as #1 C in the draft and thought that had the Cavs taken Len as the #1 overall pick, it would have been a reach just like when they drafted Thompson and Waiters.

I think people are mad because we took a center who couldnt stand out in the ACC, had one broken ankle during the draft and now has broken the other.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

I agree that they probably would take him back on another $7Mil/yr deal for 3 years but highly doubt he takes that.

Yeah, the Suns have no leverage, and he's looking for one more big payday.

That said, no chance he gets Peckovic money. Peckovic is younger and much better.

 

[Errntknght]

At this point I've seen enough of Marcin... I don't want him as my starting center at any price. Playing starters minutes he fades down the stretch so we'd get next to nothing from him in the playoffs. Let some other team pay him 40 mil to discover that sad fact.

The main thing is to get rid of him before he spoils our chances in next years draft because you know he'll be playing his butt off this next season for the mountain of cash he imagines he's going to get. And he will get a modest mountain unless he comes down with a severe injury.

 

[sunsfan88]

I think people are mad because we took a center who couldnt stand out in the ACC, had one broken ankle during the draft and now has broken the other.

Yea but those people just need to realize that in the situation Len was in and the selfish, dumb*** teammates that he had, there was no way he couldn't stand out.

And people need to understand that the Suns have the best training staff in professional sports and trust them since they checked out Len and gave McD the ok.

Len isn't the safest pick of the draft. He's a high risk, high award type guy. That's exactly the kind of gamble this organization needs to start taking.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yea but those people just need to realize that in the situation Len was in and the selfish, dumb*** teammates that he had, there was no way he couldn't stand out.

this is kind of laughable to me. if you're that good of a player at the college level, you should be able to outshine whatever is around you. the cream always rises to the top IMO. or at least it should if it's cream.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The main thing is to get rid of him before he spoils our chances in next years draft because you know he'll be playing his butt off this next season for the mountain of cash he imagines he's going to get. And he will get a modest mountain unless he comes down with a severe injury.

Gortat or not, I doubt we'll have much chance of staying out of the west cellar. It's entirely possible that some team will get desperate around the trade deadline (esp if he's playing well) and will overpay.

I'd be ok if we got rid of him now, but would be happier if we get something of value. (esp if either way we're bad enough for a top pick)

 

[Phrazbit]

Yea but those people just need to realize that in the situation Len was in and the selfish, dumb*** teammates that he had, there was no way he couldn't stand out.

And people need to understand that the Suns have the best training staff in professional sports and trust them since they checked out Len and gave McD the ok.

Len isn't the safest pick of the draft. He's a high risk, high award type guy. That's exactly the kind of gamble this organization needs to start taking.

this is kind of laughable to me. if you're that good of a player at the college level, you should be able to outshine whatever is around you. the cream always rises to the top IMO. or at least it should if it's cream.

Cheese is spot on. Fine, his teammates may have deprived him of some opportunities, but a "dominant big" should not need his point guard to set him up in order to score against 95% of the guys he went up against.

And the Suns training staff hardly got a chance to look at him, they met him like twice for a few hours prior to the draft and obviously he could not even work out for them as he was already nursing a broken ankle. Then despite whatever "OK" they may have given... they stumbled across a 2nd ankle issue they had no clue about.

I hope and pray he proves me wrong, I would love to have a nice fluid big. But IMO he was not the "high risk/high reward" guy, if thats what the Suns should be going for then he was not the pick, in fact when the Suns took him half the justification here is that he was the "safe" pick. From what I have seen and heard about him he seems like a high risk/mediocre reward player.

Not only do we need him to overcome the same bone issues that have ended many big men's career, but we also need him to show a level of talent in the NBA that he could not approach in college.

Please, please, please prove me wrong on this one Len... because if I was running the show he was one of the last guys I would have considered in that slot.

 

[Chaplin]

this is kind of laughable to me. if you're that good of a player at the college level, you should be able to outshine whatever is around you. the cream always rises to the top IMO. or at least it should if it's cream.

The kid could have gone #1. He obviously did enough to impress NBA executives who do this for a living.

 

[sunsfan88]

this is kind of laughable to me. if you're that good of a player at the college level, you should be able to outshine whatever is around you. the cream always rises to the top IMO. or at least it should if it's cream.

Well when asked why we selected him despite him not exactly being a star for Maylamd, that's the answer that Hornacek and McDonough gave.

And I'll take the word of Hornacek and McDonough since they probably know more about it and did way more research on Len than anyone on this board including myself.

Now of course if Len ends up being a bad player, then I'm all for bringing out the pitch forks against the Suns for drafting him but for now, we have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[carey]

Are you sure about that? Is there a special provision for players coming off of their rookie contracts? Or is it that the Suns don't have Gortat's Bird rights?

I'm certain. It's 7.5% of the salary in the 1st year of the extension. Check question #53 and #58 in the cba faq at cbafaq.com

Also, the Suns definitely have Gortat's bird rights. They are activated after 3 years with the same team, but they accrue even if traded.

Edit: Maybe I'm not being clear about extension and re-signing? Extension is taking the current contract and tacking on more years but you can only get so much as a raise that way. Re-signing is what it sounds like... a new contract at a new yearly salary. After next year he'd be eligible for the 7 year NBA veteran max contract. No one is going to give that to him, but he would be allowed to sign that if someone did.

 

[carey]

And I'll take the word of Hornacek and McDonough since they probably know more about it and did way more research on Len than anyone on this board including myself.

Why are we still arguing about this a month later?

 

[Chaz]

I think this characterization of Len is somewhat unfair.
It is true he didn't dominate in college. Being a big man at any level is a tough job. He played pretty well against single coverage of equal size. Len really struggled against opponents that didn't have a big man. A bunch of smaller guys would double and triple cover him. He also can be expected to struggle at his experience level at finding outlets from the post.
College basketball is dependent in large part on guard play. A good point guard can take you a long way. If you don't have one good luck getting a re-post if you even got the ball with a decent clock left in the first place.
Concerns about his development potential and injury situation are warranted of course.

As for what to do with Scola, trade him if it makes you better. Don't just leave him by the side of the road for no good reason. If you want to trade him too badly the other teams will know that. I am not worried about winning too many games or having him take minutes from young players. Young players need to earn their minutes.

 

[elindholm]

Edit: Maybe I'm not being clear about extension and re-signing?

No, I know the difference, but I'm confused because I know that a player on a rookie deal can be given a max extension after his third year -- before the fourth year on the rookie contract is played out. The Rockets did that with Harden right after acquiring him, for example.

Edit: I see, yes, question #58 goes into detail about how rookie contracts are handled differently.

 

[sunsfan88]

Why are we still arguing about this a month later?

Beats me.

 

[Covert Rain]

I think people are mad because we took a center who couldnt stand out in the ACC, had one broken ankle during the draft and now has broken the other.

This. Besides, Like Cheese stated cream rises to the top. College players rarely (unless you are a star) put up the same numbers as they did in college let alone improve upon them. His stats were nothing to write home about.

This was a potential pick for the Suns and most scouts were saying he had upside and potential. However, using the best draft pick we have had in a long time for potential.....and damaged goods?!?!?! Nuff said.

 

[Errntknght]

Such is my faith in McD's ability to evaluate talent and in our training staff that I'd bet even money now that Len will be the best center the Suns have ever had - including Amare since he did play some at the 5.

 

[SirStefan32]

Such is my faith in McD's ability to evaluate talent and in our training staff that I'd bet even money now that Len will be the best center the Suns have ever had - including Amare since he did play some at the 5.

Oh man, I have a lot of faith in McD, but I don't think len will be THAT good. Best case scenario, in my min, is that Len is a very different player than Amare was. If he can be as good as Gortat was during his last season with Nash, I will be happy.

EDIT:
On a side note- I absolutely love and appreciate your optimism. It is refreshing to see some optimism on this board once in a while.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Oh man, I have a lot of faith in McD, but I don't think len will be THAT good. Best case scenario, in my min, is that Len is a very different player than Amare was. If he can be as good as Gortat was during his last season with Nash, I will be happy.

EDIT:
On a side note- I absolutely love and appreciate your optimism. It is refreshing to see some optimism on this board once in a while.

I do not think that he has had a very high estimation of previous Suns centers. Actually, we have had some pretty good ones, even though they were not very good at the time they played for us.

James Edward was actually a good center, he played well for us and was the key part of championship teams in Detroit.

Shaq. He is one of the best centers ever to play in the league and he played pretty well for us though greatly diminished from his glory days. The problem was that the system in place made him a liability.

Alvan Adams. Very productive, but its really hard to call him a center.

Mark West. Solid defensive rebounder. He was a man before his time. He was what most teams are looking for in the defensive rim protector types.

Gortat has to rank with the best of the Suns centers.

Neal Walk was actually one of the better centers the Suns had. He averaged 20 and 12.5 in 1972-3. That would make him an all-star today.

Oliver Miller could have been one of the best centers the Suns ever had. He just could not put down the Big Macs. By the way, I was at the game where the Gorilla did the famous Ollie imitation in the fat suit.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I do not think that he has had a very high estimation of previous Suns centers. Actually, we have had some pretty good ones, even though they were not very good at the time they played for us.

James Edward was actually a good center, he played well for us and was the key part of championship teams in Detroit.

Shaq. He is one of the best centers ever to play in the league and he played pretty well for us though greatly diminished from his glory days. The problem was that the system in place made him a liability.

Alvan Adams. Very productive, but its really hard to call him a center.

Mark West. Solid defensive rebounder. He was a man before his time. He was what most teams are looking for in the defensive rim protector types.

Gortat has to rank with the best of the Suns centers.

Neal Walk was actually one of the better centers the Suns had. He averaged 20 and 12.5 in 1972-3. That would make him an all-star today.

Oliver Miller could have been one of the best centers the Suns ever had. He just could not put down the Big Macs. By the way, I was at the game where the Gorilla did the famous Ollie imitation in the fat suit.

I remember you posting about it after the game. IIRC, you were one of the very few (on AOL Suns board) outraged at the imitation while most of us just shrugged it off. Upon further review, I'd have responded differently today than I did back in 99 (98?). I thought it was a little mean but no big deal. Now, I'd call it mean, unnecessary and inappropriate.

IMO, he would have been the best center that ever played for us if not for the weight problem. In fact, a long healthy career with the Suns would have ended with him being acknowledged as one of the two or three greatest players to ever wear a Suns uniform. He was already decent but could have been so much better with experience and conditioning.

Steve