What would you give for Kevin Love

[JCSunsfan]

I don't think Tristan Thompson is better than Markieff Morris.
Anthony Bennett is a complete bust.

Not sure I would give up #14 for Waiters. He has some talent but he does not put it together.

Yes. I agree with Slin on something again. This is beginning to freak me out. All of this years picks plus a young player like Plumlee would be more. Also, the Suns have the Laker pick from next year that could be a factor.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That is not how sign and trades work and the deal is terrible for the Suns. It would basically turn us into another version of the current Timberwolves.

I also don't get your logic of trading Bledsoe but declaring that the near 30 and soon to be UFA Dragic is untouchable.

Bledsoe had just as much impact as Dragic for this team, maybe more, is younger and play both ends of the floor.

He probably would have had as much impact as Dragic except he missed half the season and his injury history also has to be considered. But I wouldn't trade either of our guards unless we were pushed into it (player demands).

Steve

 

[Phrazbit]

I think even with his injury Bledsoe had just about as much impact. IMO he was far and away our most important player last year. I like Dragic a lot but Bledsoe is only marginally behind him as an offensive player and worlds better as a defender. IF we had to choose one or the other I think its an easy decision.

However, when it comes to the Love trade I would not offer either player. Unless Golden State offers up Thompson and Barnes then we can out bid the other suitors without giving up either of our best guys.

Also, involving Bledsoe in the trade is basically an impossibility anyway. Bledsoe gets to choose who he'd be willing to sign with and convincing him to play in Minnesota, alongside Pekovic and whatever remaining filth is on that roster seems dubious.

 

[SirStefan32]

I think even with his injury Bledsoe had just about as much impact. IMO he was far and away our most important player last year. I like Dragic a lot but Bledsoe is only marginally behind him as an offensive player and worlds better as a defender. IF we had to choose one or the other I think its an easy decision.

However, when it comes to the Love trade I would not offer either player. Unless Golden State offers up Thompson and Barnes then we can out bid the other suitors without giving up either of our best guys.

Also, involving Bledsoe in the trade is basically an impossibility anyway. Bledsoe gets to choose who he'd be willing to sign with and convincing him to play in Minnesota, alongside Pekovic and whatever remaining filth is on that roster seems dubious.

Bledsoe will play in Siberia if a team there is willing to pay him more than any other team. Choice between him and Dragic is easy- you pick the one that doesn't regularly miss half a season due to same injuries. Penny Hardaway waiting to happen.

 

[BC867]

I think even with his injury Bledsoe had just about as much impact. IMO he was far and away our most important player last year.

A great player half of the time (whether due to injury or attitude) is half a player.

A half a player demoralizes a team, its fans and the local Press.

Do you really believe that Bledsoe had "just about as much impact" as Dragic over the season?

And his history of injuries doesn't bode well for the future. Just as was the case when the moment of truth came for Amar'e.

 

[elindholm]

Such as? Can the Suns offer more?

Good grief, I'm not going to look at all 28 other NBA rosters and figure out what they might offer for Love. You're focusing on one particular low-ball offer from one team and trying to make an argument that it's viable. The open market will refute that claim on its own.

 

[sunsfan88]

Do you really believe that Bledsoe had "just about as much impact" as Dragic over the season?

Hell no.

 

[sunsfan88]

Source: Kevin Love Respects Ainge, History Of Celtics

For many of the teams interested in trading for Kevin Love, the high cost of acquiring him means receiving assurances that he will sign a long-term deal with the club.

A source close to Love told Comcast analyst Tim Welsh that the three-time All-star, "wants to play for an organization that's going to be a winning organization; not necessarily I have to go to a championship team now, but a team that's going to be built to move in that direction. Maybe it'll take a couple years. That's OK. But he needs a change from Minnesota."

The Golden State Warriors and Chicago Bulls have been mentioned as Love's preferred destinations.

"He (Love) is not one of those guys that's saying, "I want to go to Miami. I want to go to L.A.," the hype cities," Welsh said. "Now would he prefer L.A.? His girlfriend lives there. She's an actress. He went to college there (at UCLA). He was born there."

Welsh added, "but he's a professional. He wants to go where there's the best opportunity for him which would be in a winning organization and he respects the history of the Celtics.

"He respects (Celtics president of basketball operations) Danny Ainge," Welsh said. "He's already built it once. If he (Ainge) can sell him, 'here's the plan for the future,' he's open to it."

http://www.csnne.com/blog/celtics-talk/source-love-would-come-celtics

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Who says no to this deal?

Minny sends:

Kevin Love

Cleveland sends:
Tristan Thompson
Dion Waiters
Anthony Bennett

Is that a decent haul for Minny? I guess it depends on if you think Bennett is a bust or not and what Thompson and Waiters ceilings are, they've both gotten to a certain level and haven't made that next leap yet.

For Cleveland, building around Kyrie and Love (imagine the Uncle Drew commercials!) and the #1 pick in this draft would be incredible. Take Wiggins #1 overall, try to coach up his 3 point shooting ability. Then try to lure LeBron.

That's a terrible haul for Minny. No impact players coming their way, not even draft picks that have that potential. I'd rather have the Lakers or Celtics picks and the possibility of a great player than that collection of mediocrity.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That's a terrible haul for Minny. No impact players coming their way, not even draft picks that have that potential. I'd rather have the Lakers or Celtics picks and the possibility of a great player than that collection of mediocrity.

If I were Minnesota, Boston would probably have the best available package of picks and players if Ainge is ready to make a big splash. I'm not sure it's the right move for the Celtics but I kind of think that Rondo might be the perfect PG for Love.

Steve

 

[BC867]

Once upon a time, the Celtics added a Center to the mix and Bill Russell became the centerpiece to a dynasty.

I am not a Celts fan or a fan of any eastern team, but history is history.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Once upon a time, the Celtics added a Center to the mix and Bill Russell became the centerpiece to a dynasty.

I am not a Celts fan or a fan of any eastern team, but history is history.

And once upon a time wars were won with sticks and clubs. The Bill Russell Celtics were 40 years ago. ANCIENT history. Almost everything about the NBA has changed since then--several times.

 

[SweetD]

I would give up anyone except Eric B including picks. But only if it comes with Love waving termination clause and extension. You can build around those two and trade other players and draft this year to fill the wholes

 

[BC867]

And once upon a time wars were won with sticks and clubs. The Bill Russell Celtics were 40 years ago. ANCIENT history. Almost everything about the NBA has changed since then--several times.

Whoa! Tell that to Danny Ainge. I don't think he'll find anything specific in your metaphor either.

Kevin Love is going to wind up on the Celtics. To play Center for years, just as Russ did. Love has already planted the seed. End of Suns fans conversations or anyone else's.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Whoa! Tell that to Danny Ainge. I don't think he'll find anything specific in your metaphor either.

Kevin Love is going to wind up on the Celtics. To play Center for years, just as Russ did. Love has already planted the seed. End of Suns fans conversations or anyone else's.

I think it's a good place for him but Love is not Bill Russell and this is no longer a 9 or 10 team NBA. Also, we don't really know that Love planted the seed. Just add the Celtics rumors to the reports that he was interested in Chicago and Golden State in addition to his longtime connection to the Lakers.

Steve

 

[JCSunsfan]

Love is not a center.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Whoa! Tell that to Danny Ainge. I don't think he'll find anything specific in your metaphor either.

Kevin Love is going to wind up on the Celtics. To play Center for years, just as Russ did. Love has already planted the seed. End of Suns fans conversations or anyone else's.

if you think K Love is the Center to end all Suns woes...or anyone's woes, simply because he's a big man, you're completely out to lunch and infatuated with stats/measurements more then anything else.

 

[Phrazbit]

Bledsoe will play in Siberia if a team there is willing to pay him more than any other team. Choice between him and Dragic is easy- you pick the one that doesn't regularly miss half a season due to same injuries. Penny Hardaway waiting to happen.

A ton of guys have had Bledsoe's injury and been fine. His issues are not the microfracture disaster that Hardaway and Amare suffered. Bledsoe has the same injury Chris Paul suffered a few years back, he got the same treatment. Paul is fine, I expect Bledsoe will be too.

As for the "siberia" line... you base this on what... that he became an RFA? Its not like Dragic came back here because he simply loved the Suns, he got paid. And next year when he opts out I wonder if you will accuse him of being a selfish mercenary the way you seem to think Bledsoe is acting.

A great player half of the time (whether due to injury or attitude) is half a player.

A half a player demoralizes a team, its fans and the local Press.

Do you really believe that Bledsoe had "just about as much impact" as Dragic over the season?

And his history of injuries doesn't bode well for the future. Just as was the case when the moment of truth came for Amar'e.

Again, Bledsoe's injuries are not Amare's injuries. When he starts having micro fractures give me a call. And he has not missed even close to half his games. The 40 games in 2012 that people seem to think is him missing "half" the year came during the lockout season. He has played in 78% of his teams games. He came back very strong from his injury this year, his issues have been two isolated incidences and he has recovered fully from each, several other players have had the same problems and gone been fine down the road. When Bledsoe's injuries become chronic or degenerative then we can talk, but there is no sign of that.

As for his impact, the Suns were a completely different animal when Bledsoe played and when Bledsoe didnt. A 28-15 team with him healthy, a merely .500 squad when he was out. I think he had as much or more of an impact on our success than any player on our roster. Dragic is a very good player but only on one end of the court, Bledsoe is a very good offensive player and a game changer on defense.

 

[elindholm]

His issues are not the microfracture disaster that Hardaway and Amare suffered.

Again, Bledsoe's injuries are not Amare's injuries. When he starts having micro fractures give me a call.

Microfracture is never the problem. Microfracture is a last-resort treatment in response to a problem that appears to have no other solution. You make it sound as though microfracture surgery is what causes career-altering changes in a player's body, but that's not the case. It's like if someone with heart issues is fitted with a pacemaker -- it's not the pacemaker that's the problem, but the need for one.

By the time someone like Bledsoe needs microfracture surgery, it's already too late. His repeated serious injuries are a definite concern. They suggest that his body isn't built to withstand the rigors of NBA play -- very few are, after all, even when the talent and desire are there.

 

[Phrazbit]

Microfracture is never the problem. Microfracture is a last-resort treatment in response to a problem that appears to have no other solution. You make it sound as though microfracture surgery is what causes career-altering changes in a player's body, but that's not the case. It's like if someone with heart issues is fitted with a pacemaker -- it's not the pacemaker that's the problem, but the need for one.

By the time someone like Bledsoe needs microfracture surgery, it's already too late. His repeated serious injuries are a definite concern. They suggest that his body isn't built to withstand the rigors of NBA play -- very few are, after all, even when the talent and desire are there.

I disagree. What treatments were attempted on Amare prior to microfracture surgery? There were none. That was a first resort to a specific problem and its a problem that has proven to be degenerative. He had bone grinding on bone inside of his knee. Penny Hardaway had a devastating injury that basically ripped all the cartilage out of his knee. This created a degenerative problem.

Bledsoe tore his right meniscus a few years ago, back then he opted for the less aggressive treatment and they merely repaired it, this time they removed the balky section. Chris Paul, Jeremy Lin, Russell Westbrook and Blake Griffin both have had the same injury that Bledsoe has had, they're all fine.

You guys are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[elindholm]

What treatments were attempted on Amare prior to microfracture surgery? There were none.

You're right; I didn't word it correctly. What I meant was that microfracture is a last resort when the surgeon doesn't believe that other remedies will work -- whether those other remedies have been tried or not.

That was a first resort to a specific problem and its a problem that has proven to be degenerative. He had bone grinding on bone inside of his knee. Penny Hardaway had a devastating injury that basically ripped all the cartilage out of his knee. This created a degenerative problem.

I think those problems already were degenerative. The specific traumatic injury (or surgery) isn't what makes them degenerative.

Bledsoe tore his right meniscus a few years ago, back then he opted for the less aggressive treatment and they merely repaired it, this time they removed the balky section.

But why does he keep having problems with that knee? Maybe it can't handle the pounding? Do you agree that Bledsoe's knee is less able to protect itself now that he has had part of the meniscus removed? That tissue cannot regrow.

Chris Paul, Jeremy Lin, Russell Westbrook and Blake Griffin both have had the same injury that Bledsoe has had, they're all fine.

So far, but on the other hand, Paul never makes it through a full season healthy.

You guys are comparing apples to oranges.

No, we're comparing apples to unknown, fist-sized pieces of fruit hidden in paper bags, which may or may not be apples.

 

[Absolute Zero]

We can't build this team by subtracting key parts.

So no, I wouldn't give up Bledsoe, or Dragic for that matter. That would be stupid, unless for some reason he hates Phoenix and wouldn't want to re-sign here.

I don't think the Love deal happens. But if it does, it should only be with role players, draft picks, or if he signs here outright as a FA.

 

[Cheesebeef]

We can't build this team by subtracting key parts.

So no, I wouldn't give up Bledsoe, or Dragic for that matter. That would be stupid, unless for some reason he hates Phoenix and wouldn't want to re-sign here.

BINGO!

Why are so many people eager to subtract to this team in order to "add" to it. we have a boatload of cap space and even more draft picks and we're so freaking young. have patience guys.

 

[Phrazbit]

But why does he keep having problems with that knee? Maybe it can't handle the pounding? Do you agree that Bledsoe's knee is less able to protect itself now that he has had part of the meniscus removed? That tissue cannot regrow.

I'm of the opinion that it takes more than two to form a pattern. He injured his knee, went conservative on the first repair, it didnt last, two years later he went the aggressive route and they removed a small section of the ligament. Many other athletes have had the same injury and have not had recurrences.

As for stability, if he'd also torn his ACL or MCL I'd be more concerned, perhaps in 5 or 10 years he will develop some issues with pain, like Dwayne Wade who had his entire meniscus removed 12 years ago, but over the next 4 seasons (the length of a new contract) there is no more reason to expect a knee injury from him than any other player.

No, we're comparing apples to unknown, fist-sized pieces of fruit hidden in paper bags, which may or may not be apples.

Again, there are several specific examples of guys with the exact same issues as Bledsoe, and those guys have gone on to be absolutely fine. I will call them oranges. You're comparing him to worst case scenario players who had far worse or very different problems going on inside of their knees.

 

[elindholm]

Again, there are several specific examples of guys with the exact same issues as Bledsoe, and those guys have gone on to be absolutely fine.

For my benefit, who are those players? From your earlier list, certainly not Chris Paul, who is perpetually injured. Lin doesn't play that much anymore. Westbrook has a lot of Thunder faithful worried, and not just because of his questionable decision-making. Griffin had a stress fracture, not a meniscus tear. So, just to put my mind at ease, who are the "several specific examples" of players who have put a Bledsoe-like injury behind them?