What would you give for Kevin Love

[Cheesebeef]

Doesnt every open roster spot have a cap hold? Plus, every player you do not renounce has a cap hold.

Why wouldn't they renounce every player on that roster who's going to be a FA? They're all pretty much non factors and from all reports in LA, none of them really have a future here.

 

[HooverDam]

hell, even if we didn't have to do either of those, and we somehow put together a big three of Dragic, Bledsoe, Love, I think we've just made ourselves the 2014 version of the 1988-92 Suns with KJ, Horny, Chambers. Fun teams to watch sure...I mean REALLY fun to watch, but complete playoff pretenders. That team would STILL need a Barkley, just like Cotton said back in the day.

1. I'd be fine with being a team like that.

2. I think Love has the potential to be better than Chambers (who I think should be in the HoF). Love is certainly a vastly superior rebounder to Chambers, which is a big part of what Barkley brought. Its not like adding Barkley added a lot of defense (and neither would Love). Chambers was also declining pretty quickly by the time Barkley showed up, even though he had made the All Star team just 2 years before Barkley arrived he was no longer a 25ppg machine.


Anyhow, we'll obviously know a lot more about where Love may end up after the ping pong balls settle.

 

[Cheesebeef]

1. I'd be fine with being a team like that.

2. I think Love has the potential to be better than Chambers (who I think should be in the HoF). Love is certainly a vastly superior rebounder to Chambers, which is a big part of what Barkley brought. Its not like adding Barkley added a lot of defense (and neither would Love). Chambers was also declining pretty quickly by the time Barkley showed up, even though he had made the All Star team just 2 years before Barkley arrived he was no longer a 25ppg machine.


Anyhow, we'll obviously know a lot more about where Love may end up after the ping pong balls settle.

That team was soft as tissue paper and ALWAYS needed a Barkley to make it tougher, give it an attitude. This team would be the exact same thing, IMO.

 

[HooverDam]

That team was soft as tissue paper and ALWAYS needed a Barkley to make it tougher, give it an attitude. This team would be the exact same thing, IMO.

And that's fine by me. I'd love to be back in the WCF's like those teams. Do I want the Suns to win the title? Of course. But you don't go from out of the playoffs to title contender in one year.

I think sometimes as fans, especially Suns fans who have never won the title, we get a little title obsessed and impatient. The Suns aren't winning the title next year no matter what, so if they can get Kevin Love and build towards a title contender at some point, they should do that. Maybe they find their Barkley enforcer/attitude guy later. That role doesn't necessarily have to be filled by the teams best player (see: Lambier and Rodman).

 

[JCSunsfan]

Why wouldn't they renounce every player on that roster who's going to be a FA? They're all pretty much non factors and from all reports in LA, none of them really have a future here.

I do believe the CBA requires a minimum cap hold of the minimum rookie salary for every open roster spot. So if 13 are required and the Lakers only have Nash, Kobe, and Love on the roster, they would still have an additional cap hold of around $5 million. The minimum rookie salary for next year is $500k. Plus they have cap holds for the various exceptions (Mid-level and Bi-annual) but I am not sure that those apply if they are under the cap. There is also a cap hold for any trade exceptions.

Anyway, their 3 contracts, along with roster cap holds take them to around $56 million, which doesn't leave much for a FA. If the cap is $63 million, which is what is being reported, they have around $7 million to play with, if they manage to get Love. I assume there would be no cap hold for their first round pick because they would have to trade that to get Love.

Kobe--$25 million
Nash--$9.7 million
Love--$16.5 million
Cap holds--$5 million (without draft picks, or MLE)

I assume they are going to have to do something with that Nash contract.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I do believe the CBA requires a minimum cap hold of the minimum rookie salary for every open roster spot. So if 13 are required and the Lakers only have Nash, Kobe, and Love on the roster, they would still have an additional cap hold of around $5 million. The minimum rookie salary for next year is $500k. Plus they have cap holds for the various exceptions (Mid-level and Bi-annual) but I am not sure that those apply if they are under the cap. There is also a cap hold for any trade exceptions.

Anyway, their 3 contracts, along with roster cap holds take them to around $56 million, which doesn't leave much for a FA. If the cap is $63 million, which is what is being reported, they have around $7 million to play with, if they manage to get Love. I assume there would be no cap hold for their first round pick because they would have to trade that to get Love.

Kobe--$25 million
Nash--$9.7 million
Love--$16.5 million
Cap holds--$5 million (without draft picks, or MLE)

I assume they are going to have to do something with that Nash contract.

maybe you're right, but I don't believe this to be correct.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And that's fine by me. I'd love to be back in the WCF's like those teams.

Only two of those teams made it to the WCF and they got pounded 8-2 in those series...and that was when the West was pretty weak with really only the Lakers and Blazers as tough teams. This is a different era where the West is loaded and I don't see a triumvirate of Dragic, Bledsoe and Love really being even close to OKC/San Antonio/Clippers.

Do I want the Suns to win the title? Of course. But you don't go from out of the playoffs to title contender in one year.

I think sometimes as fans, especially Suns fans who have never won the title, we get a little title obsessed and impatient. The Suns aren't winning the title next year no matter what, so if they can get Kevin Love and build towards a title contender at some point, they should do that. Maybe they find their Barkley enforcer/attitude guy later. That role doesn't necessarily have to be filled by the teams best player (see: Lambier and Rodman).

problem there is with Love, you pretty much lockdown what this team can do moving forward salary cap wise. And yes, the enforcer doesn't have to be the best player, but those Pistons teams had a HOFer and one of the all time greats at PG. I don't consider Dragic to be anywhere near Isiah's level.

I just don't see the rush in making this a 50 and fade team for the long-term future which is what Love and this group of guys would make us.

 

[HooverDam]

Only two of those teams made it to the WCF and they got pounded 8-2 in those series...and that was when the West was pretty weak with really only the Lakers and Blazers as tough teams. This is a different era where the West is loaded and I don't see a triumvirate of Dragic, Bledsoe and Love really being even close to OKC/San Antonio/Clippers.

Well the Spurs have got to take a dip at some point......right? This is getting silly at this point. I imagine once Duncan finally retires, Pop will too, and that franchise might become a question mark.

problem there is with Love, you pretty much lockdown what this team can do moving forward salary cap wise. A

Not necessarily. They could flip Bledsoe or Dragic much the way they flipped Horny for Barkley if the right deal comes along.

I think you take big steps forward when you can and if it becomes apparent your new roster has some kind of ceiling, you then address that.

As is the Suns are already too good for the next couple of years to land a top lottery pick superstar, they're not very likely to land on in Free Agency, and the current roster doesn't seem likely to make a major jump. I kind of feel like this team could possibly get stuck in that non desirable middle area if they don't make some kind of move.

I guess the only other hope is that the Lakers pick next year ends up netting them a star, but thats always a crap shoot.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Only two of those teams made it to the WCF and they got pounded 8-2 in those series...and that was when the West was pretty weak with really only the Lakers and Blazers as tough teams. This is a different era where the West is loaded and I don't see a triumvirate of Dragic, Bledsoe and Love really being even close to OKC/San Antonio/Clippers.

I agree that a Dragic, Bled & Love team would'nt put us in the WCF... however, I do think it would be a much closer battle than you seem to suggest here.
Also, I would add Golden State to that list...
And, I am not sure you should lump them together as they each present separate/unique challenges...

I personally believe that San Antonio will end up on top in the West, especially now with Ibaka gone for the series...though, even if he wasn't gone, I still think the Spurs would defeat OKC.
So, I think the goal should be to create a team that would/could take down the Spurs. What type of team make-up/talent is required to defeat the Spurs? Because if you can get that chemistry correct, I think you'll stand a very good chance of taking down OKC, or the Clippers, or Golden State...

 

[Cheesebeef]

Well the Spurs have got to take a dip at some point......right? This is getting silly at this point. I imagine once Duncan finally retires, Pop will too, and that franchise might become a question mark.



Not necessarily. They could flip Bledsoe or Dragic much the way they flipped Horny for Barkley if the right deal comes along.

I think you take big steps forward when you can and if it becomes apparent your new roster has some kind of ceiling, you then address that.

As is the Suns are already too good for the next couple of years to land a top lottery pick superstar, they're not very likely to land on in Free Agency, and the current roster doesn't seem likely to make a major jump. I kind of feel like this team could possibly get stuck in that non desirable middle area if they don't make some kind of move.

I guess the only other hope is that the Lakers pick next year ends up netting them a star, but thats always a crap shoot.

this is all possible too. I'm just not a big fan of Love. And I'm tired of being the softest contender in the league like we have been for our entire existence. And while one can hope that Len changes that, I'm not holding my breath there. The guy wasn't exactly a defensive stalwart in college.

 

[JCSunsfan]

maybe you're right, but I don't believe this to be correct.

Oh believe me, I could be wrong. It might be 12 roster spots they have to account for instead of 13, and if they sign a FA, they could add the cap hold for that slot to the offer, so maybe there is another million there to work with.

 

[JCSunsfan]

this is all possible too. I'm just not a big fan of Love. And I'm tired of being the softest contender in the league like we have been for our entire existence. And while one can hope that Len changes that, I'm not holding my breath there. The guy wasn't exactly a defensive stalwart in college.

I'm not sure about Love either. It all depends on what you have to give up for him.

However, I am not opposed to trading Dragic (for whatever makes this team better long-term). His value is very high right now and it will only diminish as we move toward the time he can opt out.

 

[SunsTzu]

maybe you're right, but I don't believe this to be correct.

Roster cap holds are added to a teams cap for each vacant roster spot. It's roughly 800k per spot to the 13 man minimum.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I think the only way we have the assets they want is if a) we win the lotto and get a top three pick and use that as the main carrot of the trade or b) if we included Dragic or Bledsoe in a deal somehow.

and I don't want to see us do EITHER of those to get Love.

Agreed here. Picks in the late teens and 20's just aren't as valuable as people make them out to be. Teams want proven talent on cheap contracts, high draft picks (or the potential to be high), and cap space.

The Lakers may not have assets but they have that pick and that's more attractive than some of the trade packages I have heard involving us, Chicago, or Golden State. If Love wants LA he's going to get it and Minny would be smart to get that pick back in return.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Agreed here. Picks in the late teens and 20's just aren't as valuable as people make them out to be. Teams want proven talent on cheap contracts, high draft picks (or the potential to be high), and cap space.

The Lakers may not have assets but they have that pick and that's more attractive than some of the trade packages I have heard involving us, Chicago, or Golden State. If Love wants LA he's going to get it and Minny would be smart to get that pick back in return.

Normally yes but this year it might be different. This is one of those rare drafts when all three of our picks could result in a starter down the road. If a team was starting over they could do far worse than trade a star for our three first rounders (assuming we don't get lucky tomorrow and add a fourth). Minnesota probably isn't that smart or at least they haven't been in the past but it's worth giving them a call.

Steve

 

[devilalum]

Its funny that everybody keeps pointing to the 3 star model and you need top 5 lotto picks etc...

San Antonio is the current favorite to win the WC and they don't have a single top 5 pick that they drafted with the exception of Duncan and he is a shell of his All NBA former self. Why are they the only franchise that can take late first round picks and cast offs and mold them into a legit contender?

There's more than one way to win a championship.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Its funny that everybody keeps pointing to the 3 star model and you need top 5 lotto picks etc...

San Antonio is the current favorite to win the WC and they don't have a single top 5 pick that they drafted with the exception of Duncan and he is a shell of his All NBA former self. Why are they the only franchise that can take late first round picks and cast offs and mold them into a legit contender?

There's more than one way to win a championship.

But the San Antonio model is almost meaningless. First off, they haven't won a championship since Duncan stopped being arguably the greatest player in the game. Secondly, they added a couple of top five talents to go along with Timmy. They managed to get them later in the draft because they were ahead of the game when it came to scouting international players but in today's NBA, Manu and Parker would likely be drafted closer to where their talent warrants.

Steve

 

[HoodieBets]

Its funny that everybody keeps pointing to the 3 star model and you need top 5 lotto picks etc...

San Antonio is the current favorite to win the WC and they don't have a single top 5 pick that they drafted with the exception of Duncan and he is a shell of his All NBA former self. Why are they the only franchise that can take late first round picks and cast offs and mold them into a legit contender?

There's more than one way to win a championship.

One answer....Coaching

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

 

[devilalum]

But the San Antonio model is almost meaningless. First off, they haven't won a championship since Duncan stopped being arguably the greatest player in the game. Secondly, they added a couple of top five talents to go along with Timmy. They managed to get them later in the draft because they were ahead of the game when it came to scouting international players but in today's NBA, Manu and Parker would likely be drafted closer to where their talent warrants.

Steve

You just reiterated my point. They didn't have lotto picks but they found another way. And they came within seconds of winning the title last year.

 

[devilalum]

One answer....Coaching

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Yeah, Popovich is a genius but is he the only guy in the world that can do this?

Another thing, If you look at all the championship teams over the last 25 years they were all built in a variety of ways. Factor in rules changes that have been made during that time and you've got a lot of variables. Sure you need great players but you've also got to be creative. I believe the Suns have some really good people pulling the strings and my guess is that they're not looking to copy anybody elses formula for success.

 

[AzStevenCal]

You just reiterated my point. They didn't have lotto picks but they found another way. And they came within seconds of winning the title last year.

They found a way to get lotto picks that no longer exists. Notice that no one else is racking up top 5 players in the late twenties. And again, no matter how close they came, they still have not won a championship since they had three of the top players in the game. OKC, if they were to win it all, would come closer to making your point.

I do agree that there is more than one way to win a championship but if your way doesn't involve surrounding one of the two or three best players in the game with a lot of talent, you're going to need a lot of luck instead. A two star team in today's league isn't likely to get it done.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

If I were Love, I would love to land in Phoenix.

Now we just need to find a way to get this stuck in his head

We need to do the full Nash treatment where we fly to Love and present him with a leather bound book showing Love as a Sun and showing him MVP of the league with the Suns.

 

[slinslin]

I would have to throw a serious tantrum if we get a top 3 pick and McD trades Parker or Wiggins for Love.

Assume we get the #2 pick I would much rather keep either Wiggins or Parker and package a combination of #14,#18 and #27 or Lakers 2015 to get #6, #7 or #8 to draft Vonleh or Gordon.

future lineup

Len/Plumlee
Vonleh/Morris
Parker/Morris
Dragic/Goodwin
Bledsoe/Goodwin
+Frye/Green/Tucker

Sign me up, we would actually have a boat load of capspace to sign other players to upgrade the roster immediately if we want to.

 

[Zobaczcie suki]

But it means he has to play another season in Minny to do that.

Why wouldn't he want to do that? Then in Summer of 2015 he shops himself around & picks the team that he wants, a team not depleted by trading to get him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I would have to throw a serious tantrum if we get a top 3 pick and McD trades Parker or Wiggins for Love.

Assume we get the #2 pick I would much rather keep either Wiggins or Parker and package a combination of #14,#18 and #27 or Lakers 2015 to get #6, #7 or #8 to draft Vonleh or Gordon.

If we got a top 3 pick, I would keep it and package Dragic and picks for Love. Then you have your Big Three: Love, Bledsoe, and Wiggins/Parker etc.