What would you give for Kevin Love

[PhxGametime]

For CBA experts: With the Suns having capspace this year still ('14) and IF the Suns Traded Morrii, Frye, and combination of 4-5 First Rounders on Draft day for Kevin Love - how much capspace in offseason would the Suns have to add another FA??

 

[Mainstreet]

For CBA experts: With the Suns having capspace this year still ('14) and IF the Suns Traded Morrii, Frye, and combination of 4-5 First Rounders on Draft day for Kevin Love - how much capspace in offseason would the Suns have to add another FA??

IMO Love is not worth what you are proposing. I'd rather add another solid rebounding FC to help Markieff and improve the rest of the team. Even a player like Faried would do wonders for the Suns. I like Love but he is not worth the farm.

 

[Chaz]

I would really like to add Love to this team but gutting the team to get him defeates the purpose.
If I can't get Minnesota to take a reasonable offer then just roll the dice that he may be a ufa next summer.

 

[AzStevenCal]

IMO Love is not worth what you are proposing. I'd rather add another solid rebounding FC to help Markieff and improve the rest of the team. Even a player like Faried would do wonders for the Suns. I like Love but he is not worth the farm.

I would do it in a flash. Love is nearing his prime and with Dragic and Bledsoe it gives us a solid window within which to build a championship contender. Giving up 4 or 5 picks would normally be too prohibitive but assuming we could just give them our number one's this year and the Lakers pick next season, Kevin would be a great return IMO. Odds are none of those four picks will develop into a player at Love's level. And when they do hit their stride, Dragic will be showing his age.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

I would really like to add Love to this team but gutting the team to get him defeates the purpose.
If I can't get Minnesota to take a reasonable offer then just roll the dice that he may be a ufa next summer.

I agree that gutting the team is dangerous but I don't think this qualifies as "gutting the team". From an immediate standpoint, we're just replacing Markieff and Channing with Love. That's a huge win for us.

Steve

 

[Joe Mama]

Trade our whole frontcourt for Love, and you have a title contender right now. Bledsoe and Dragic are the untouchable names.

Dragic, Bledsoe, Goodwin, and Green are a solid backcourt.

Keep Plumlee, Tucker, and Love as starting baseline guys, with Frye and anyone else as rotation depth.


Trade Morris, Morris, Len, and four draft picks for Love. The Wolves get their entire front line handed to them, and hope for the future. We become contenders right now. That front line grabs the hell out of rebounds and has a nasty defensive disposition, along with length and surprising athleticism for big men. Green can also play 'shooting forward' in a small ball lineup.

That starting frontcourt of Plumlee, Love, and Tucker (who has to be re-signed) might give you some good rebounding, but it certainly doesn't give you length and better-than-average defense. Plumlee is super athletic, but he is not long. That's one of the problems with him. That gives you an 8'9.5" standing reach at center, 8'10" at power forward, and you have a 6'5" small forward. That is an undersized frontcourt if anything. Tucker is very good defensively, but again he's undersized. He's not a lockdown defender and by the way he's a free agent. Plumlee and Love are pretty average defensively and I feel I'm possibly being generous there.


I don't know. If I'm Kevin love I might prefer to go to Chicago or Boston instead of down to Phoenix and those teams could arguably give Minnesota a better return. With Boston and Chicago he's moving to a much weaker Eastern Conference. Chicago is one of the three major media markets, and Boston is one of the NBA's storied franchises. Of course there are concerns about either of these teams after they move the players to get Love, but there would be questions here as well.

 

[AzStevenCal]

That starting frontcourt of Plumlee, Love, and Tucker (who has to be re-signed) might give you some good rebounding, but it certainly doesn't give you length and better-than-average defense. Plumlee is super athletic, but he is not long. That's one of the problems with him. That gives you an 8'9.5" standing reach at center, 8'10" at power forward, and you have a 6'5" small forward. That is an undersized frontcourt if anything. Tucker is very good defensively, but again he's undersized. He's not a lockdown defender and by the way he's a free agent. Plumlee and Love are pretty average defensively and I feel I'm possibly being generous there.


I don't know. If I'm Kevin love I might prefer to go to Chicago or Boston instead of down to Phoenix and those teams could arguably give Minnesota a better return. With Boston and Chicago he's moving to a much weaker Eastern Conference. Chicago is one of the three major media markets, and Boston is one of the NBA's storied franchises. Of course there are concerns about either of these teams after they move the players to get Love, but there would be questions here as well.

I think we can offer a better package than Chicago and we can offer a better surrounding cast than Boston but I just don't know how important that will be to Love. I agree with our lack of length and size down low though, that's something that might keep him from entertaining us as a real destination.

If I were making the final decision for this team, I'd ask for a commitment from Love and I'd ask McDonough and company if they'd still draft Len if they could have a do-over. If the answer is yes to both those questions, I'd trade anyone on the roster other than Eric, Goran and Alex. If the answer is no to either, I'd probably gamble on trying to fill my needs in the draft. I don't think the Love/Plumlee combo is going to work either. Until I see otherwise I'm going to assume Plumlee's role as a long-term Center will be off the bench.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

I would do it in a flash. Love is nearing his prime and with Dragic and Bledsoe it gives us a solid window within which to build a championship contender. Giving up 4 or 5 picks would normally be too prohibitive but assuming we could just give them our number one's this year and the Lakers pick next season, Kevin would be a great return IMO. Odds are none of those four picks will develop into a player at Love's level. And when they do hit their stride, Dragic will be showing his age.

Steve

I am trying to think of comparable trade made by the Suns to get a key player at the PF position to ascertain a fair value for Love. I would have liked to have used a player like Tom Chambers but he signed with the Suns as the NBA's first free agent. I believe Tom Chambers was a superior player to Kevin Love. I'm not going by stats, I'm going by the player I saw on the court.

Charles Barkey was a superior player to Kevin Love when he came to Phoenix by a long shot. I don't think there will be any parades for Love if comes to Phoenix. The Suns traded Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang to get him. Jeff Hornacek was a nice player but it was a no brainer to trade him for Barkley.

I'm thinking those 4 or 5 draft picks you propose giving up will yield better results than Kevin Love, probably not at the PF position, but nevertheless better value for the Suns overall including at least one star player.

If I were the Suns I would beef up the PF position with a good rebounder and defender to join Markieff and then strengthen the other positions on the team.

 

[Mainstreet]

I think we can offer a better package than Chicago and we can offer a better surrounding cast than Boston but I just don't know how important that will be to Love. I agree with our lack of length and size down low though, that's something that might keep him from entertaining us as a real destination.

If I were making the final decision for this team, I'd ask for a commitment from Love and I'd ask McDonough and company if they'd still draft Len if they could have a do-over. If the answer is yes to both those questions, I'd trade anyone on the roster other than Eric, Goran and Alex. If the answer is no to either, I'd probably gamble on trying to fill my needs in the draft. I don't think the Love/Plumlee combo is going to work either. Until I see otherwise I'm going to assume Plumlee's role as a long-term Center will be off the bench.

Steve

Always remember the lesson learned with Antonio McDyess. The circumstances may be different but it can still happen again leaving the Suns with a major rebuild with few assets to get it done. I'm not going to put all my eggs in a basket unless his name is Lebron or Durant.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I am trying to think of comparable trade made by the Suns to get a key player at the PF position to ascertain a fair value for Love. I would have liked to have used a player like Tom Chambers but he signed with the Suns as the NBA's first free agent. I believe Tom Chambers was a superior player to Kevin Love. I'm not going by stats, I'm going by the player I saw on the court.

Charles Barkey was a superior player to Kevin Love when he came to Phoenix by a long shot. I don't think there will be any parades for Love if comes to Phoenix. The Suns traded Jeff Hornacek, Tim Perry and Andrew Lang to get him. Jeff Hornacek was a nice player but it was a no brainer to trade him for Barkley.

I'm thinking those 4 or 5 draft picks you propose giving up will yield better results than Kevin Love, probably not at the PF position, but nevertheless better value for the Suns overall including at least one star player.

If I were the Suns I would beef up the PF position with a good rebounder and defender to join Markieff and then strengthen the other positions on the team.

Barkley was a better player but I don't think Chambers was and Kevin is almost 5 years younger than Chuck or Tom were when we acquired them. The difference here is you apparently don't consider Love an elite player and I do. I think there are a lot of drafts that fail to yield a player of Kevin's ability and if you accept that idea, four middling draft picks are nowhere close to his value. If you think he's just a pretty good player than it's reasonable to expect to find his equal with those draft picks.

Steve

 

[AzStevenCal]

Always remember the lesson learned with Antonio McDyess. The circumstances may be different but it can still happen again leaving the Suns with a major rebuild with few assets to get it done. I'm not going to put all my eggs in a basket unless his name is Lebron or Durant.

I certainly think Lebron and Durant are the two best in the league but I think the gap between James and Durant is much greater than the gap between the two Kevin's. I'd like to see Durant and Love surrounded by equal talent, I'm not convinced the results would be markedly different.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

Barkley was a better player but I don't think Chambers was and Kevin is almost 5 years younger than Chuck or Tom were when we acquired them. The difference here is you apparently don't consider Love an elite player and I do. I think there are a lot of drafts that fail to yield a player of Kevin's ability and if you accept that idea, four middling draft picks are nowhere close to his value. If you think he's just a pretty good player than it's reasonable to expect to find his equal with those draft picks.

Steve

This is our difference. I do not consider an elite player. I view Kevin Love as an All-Star type player but not a player that can carry a team. At this stage of his career, I view him more as a stat stuffer. If he goes to a team with good talent around him, he may rise to another level.

I've certainly been wrong before... latest example James Harden who I didn't think he was special coming out of college. Maybe Harden should be the template for a trade for Love. The Thunder received two first-round picks, guards Jeremy Lamb and Kevin Martin plus a second-round pick.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is our difference. I do not consider an elite player. I view Kevin Love as an All-Star type player but not a player that can carry a team. At this stage of his career, I view him more as a stat stuffer. If he goes to a team with good talent around him, he may rise to another level.

I've certainly been wrong before... latest example James Harden who I didn't think he was special coming out of college. Maybe Harden should be the template for a trade for Love. The Thunder received two first-round picks, guards Jeremy Lamb and Kevin Martin plus a second-round pick.

On paper, I'd think that offer exceeds our four firsts (this year's plus the Lakers pick) and the Morris brothers. I also think that Love is a more valuable asset than Harden but I'm not enamored of Harden's current game. I think he's the ultimate stat padder right now. I think you can win it all with Love as your best player if you surround him with other stars. I don't think you can win it all with Harden as your best player. When he was something less than the star in OKC he played defense and he facilitated for others. I see none of that now that he's the star in Houston.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

On paper, I'd think that offer exceeds our four firsts (this year's plus the Lakers pick) and the Morris brothers. I also think that Love is a more valuable asset than Harden but I'm not enamored of Harden's current game. I think he's the ultimate stat padder right now. I think you can win it all with Love as your best player if you surround him with other stars. I don't think you can win it all with Harden as your best player. When he was something less than the star in OKC he played defense and he facilitated for others. I see none of that now that he's the star in Houston.

Steve

I don't think so. Give me Markieff plus all the picks.

 

[elindholm]

Harden is reminding me of Jerry Stackhouse. Stackhouse averaged 30 points a game in 1999-2000 (no, really, you can look it up!), and had four other seasons averaging over 20. But it never amounted to anything, and for the entire second half of his career, he was a basically a scoring sixth man. You know, like Harden was with the Thunder.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Harden is reminding me of Jerry Stackhouse. Stackhouse averaged 30 points a game in 1999-2000 (no, really, you can look it up!), and had four other seasons averaging over 20. But it never amounted to anything, and for the entire second half of his career, he was a basically a scoring sixth man. You know, like Harden was with the Thunder.

Harden's issue is that he's one of the laziest defensive players in the NBA and doesn't work very hard in the offseason. Those habits don't make for a superstar player but both can easily be fixed.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I certainly think Lebron and Durant are the two best in the league but I think the gap between James and Durant is much greater than the gap between the two Kevin's. I'd like to see Durant and Love surrounded by equal talent, I'm not convinced the results would be markedly different.

Steve

There's a HUGE gulf between the two Kevins and their impact on the game, IMO. Durant sans Westbrook last year/this year still won a playoff series without Westbrook and went something like 24-8 without him this year, surrounded by, well, not much around him. Love has never elevated his team or had any kind of streak like that.

 

[Mainstreet]

Harden is reminding me of Jerry Stackhouse. Stackhouse averaged 30 points a game in 1999-2000 (no, really, you can look it up!), and had four other seasons averaging over 20. But it never amounted to anything, and for the entire second half of his career, he was a basically a scoring sixth man. You know, like Harden was with the Thunder.

I think Jerry Stackhouse was being hyped as the next Michael Jordon when he entered the NBA... not.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I am 100% confident that Goodwin will be an allstar caliber player in 2 years time. And who knows how good he can be, there is no ceiling based on how hard he seems to work. He acutally reminds me of a young Kobe. Doubtful he will reach that kind of level but it is not impossible.

You know this by the 194 points he scored (mostly in garbage minutes) this season? Exactly six players have been All Stars before their 21st birthdays: Kobe, Magic, Shaq, LeBron, Garnett, and Isiah Thomas. Sorry but Archie isn't in the same galaxy as those guys. he's not even in the same galazy as Steph Curry, Dame Lillard, Russ Westbrook, James Harden and the other guys in their mid to early 20's he's supposed to surpass for these All Star nods.

I'm not kidding were the Suns say no to a Kevin Love trade because of wanting to hold on to Archie Goodwin I want McDonough fired immediately.

 

[Mainstreet]

You know this by the 194 points he scored (mostly in garbage minutes) this season? Exactly six players have been All Stars before their 21st birthdays: Kobe, Magic, Shaq, LeBron, Garnett, and Isiah Thomas. Sorry but Archie isn't in the same galaxy as those guys. he's not even in the same galazy as Steph Curry, Dame Lillard, Russ Westbrook, James Harden and the other guys in their mid to early 20's he's supposed to surpass for these All Star nods.

I'm not kidding were the Suns say no to a Kevin Love trade because of wanting to hold on to Archie Goodwin I want McDonough fired immediately.

I think the 21st Birthday thing should be left out of the equation. I think Goodwin will become a star but he needs two things to get there, playing time and the maturation of his game. He has the talent. If the Suns or another team will give him both, I definitely believe he will get there. If McDonough believes this, I'm with him.

I definitely believe Goodwin should not be a throw-in in a trade.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There's a HUGE gulf between the two Kevins and their impact on the game, IMO. Durant sans Westbrook last year/this year still won a playoff series without Westbrook and went something like 24-8 without him this year, surrounded by, well, not much around him. Love has never elevated his team or had any kind of streak like that.

I don't think I'd trade Serge Ibaka for every non-Love player the Twolves have suited up during KL's career except possibly Dieng. And that's on the strength of what he might become. Durant did a great job carrying them through that 26 game stretch where Russell was out but more than half the opponents had a losing record and Serge was often the second best player in the game for either team. I'd give the edge to Durant, as I mentioned, I just don't think it's much of an edge. I'd say it's consistent with the PER advantage that Durant holds over Love (just less than three).

Steve

Edit: I'm not sure this came across in my posts. I think it's Lebron........................................................................Durant...........Love. My point was at least as much about the huge gap between Lebron and everyone else. I'm also not calling Love the third best player in the game.

 

[Superbone]

Harden is reminding me of Jerry Stackhouse. Stackhouse averaged 30 points a game in 1999-2000 (no, really, you can look it up!), and had four other seasons averaging over 20. But it never amounted to anything, and for the entire second half of his career, he was a basically a scoring sixth man. You know, like Harden was with the Thunder.

And a face breaker. I'll never forget that.

 

[elindholm]

The title of this thread is, "What would you give for Kevin Love," but what most people are writing is, "This is what I'd try to get Love for if I were playing a video game."

 

[AzStevenCal]

I don't think so. Give me Markieff plus all the picks.

If they were all future, unprotected and therefore undetermined picks, I might agree. But we're talking about 14, 18, 27 and a future protected pick. Even if the draft fell perfectly for us and even if we were willing to use all four picks, I'm just not convinced we can get enough talent to make passing on Love worthwhile unless the Lakers pick turns into gold.

I'd be thrilled with a 2014 draft that landed us Harris or Young with our first pick, Payne with our second and someone like Capela with our 27th. Add a backup big man with our second round pick and I'd call that a very successful draft. But even then, I'd trade it and the Lakers pick along with the Morrises for an extended Love. Far too many rookies fail in this league to justify walking away from a guy that can give you 26 and 12.

Unfortunately, management doesn't want to use all four draft picks. Maybe they'll trade for future picks which makes sense but more likely they'll package the 14 and the 27 to move up a couple spots and grab someone like Stauskas. Then we'll probably draft Jerami Grant with the 18th pick and sell off the second rounder. Maybe it makes us a little better but now you're looking at basically choosing Stauskas and Markieff over Love.

I'd walk away from any Love deal if we couldn't get him under contract but otherwise I'd give up whatever they asked for minus the few pieces I've already suggested we hang onto (Dragic, Bledsoe and Len conditionally). Honestly though, I think this is all moot. The same reason that makes me willing to part with our four picks applies to Minnesota, they just aren't that valuable. Not to mention that Love has shown no interest in us, even indirectly.

Steve

 

[Superbone]

I'd walk away from any Love deal if we couldn't get him under contract but otherwise I'd give up whatever they asked for minus the few pieces I've already suggested we hang onto (Dragic, Bledsoe and Len conditionally). Honestly though, I think this is all moot. The same reason that makes me willing to part with our four picks applies to Minnesota, they just aren't that valuable. Not to mention that Love has shown no interest in us, even indirectly.

Steve

Yep, I'm afraid so.