Whiz

[Crazy Canuck]

i wouldnt trade our #1 for kolb for any reason whatsoever. Take defense high, draft a QB later to compete with skelton if one is good enough and sign orton, palmer, bulger, smith in that order.

The mention of a QB being worthless because of no workouts, practice or anything is something I never thought of and makes perfect sense. NO WAY do I draft a QB that early. D can step in much faster than a QB.

1. Without a CBA prior to the draft we CANNOT trade the #5 pick for a player.

2. Orton and Palmer, after a new CBA, will cost picks in 2012, as would Kolb.

3. Bulger and Smith may be options, but unless there is QBOF on the roster, say goodbye to Fitz. (IMO)

 

[desertdawg]

Regardless of who we draft, the longer this lockout goes on, the more likely it is that we are drafting in the top five next season.

This, especially with the new coach on defense.

 

[Stout]

Just to add: Lombardi on the Nfl Network interprets Whiz's comments as a signal to the fanbase to not "freak out" if the team doesn't select a QB at #5, and that if they do... don't expect immediate returns.

That certainly makes sense as well.

 

[BigRedRage]

1. Without a CBA prior to the draft we CANNOT trade the #5 pick for a player.

2. Orton and Palmer, after a new CBA, will cost picks in 2012, as would Kolb.

3. Bulger and Smith may be options, but unless there is QBOF on the roster, say goodbye to Fitz. (IMO)

I wouldnt give a #1 for next year for him either.

Orton is a long term project, possible QBOF with possible QBOF skelton behind him and a new rookie to compete with skelton. Seems fair and reasonable to me.

Smith could be a QBOF too possibly, SF sucked when he was trying to play for them. Hes far better than scud.

As long as we get a DECENT qb, i dont see fitz going anywhere. He posted monster numbers for having terrible QB play and good to great QB play will put him back in the spotlight.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I can understand this. Taking a QB during THIS offseason means he definitely sits next year because he cant prepare.

This makes Miller, Peterson, Green, Quinn, Dareus, & Amukamara even more appealing.

Hopefully we get our pick of Miller or Peterson.

 

[D-Dogg]

We aren't taking a QB at #5.

Or maybe we will. :coachspeak:

Bank on it.

 

[john h]

The problem is that drafting a QB this year, before the CBA is signed, would make us worse off than we were at QB for the coming season. No rookie is going to come in, without knowing the playbook, and without a single down of practice, and be any more than a scout QB for the entire season. That is the real risk you take this year if you draft him high.

If the CBA doesn't get signed before the draft, we have to take our chances on a vet. Even if the vet doesn't get signed in time to start, we have a guy with minimal starting experience in Skelton. Better IMO to roll with a guy that might just develop over the year and hope to add a solid vet QB to the mix than to waste a year's worth of contract playing time on a rookie QB.

My thoughts on taking a QB this year is not that he will help out this year. Hopefully we get a QB who would be our starter in pehaps 2 years and hopefully for years on forward. We are going to have to go with whoever we can sign this year or with an unproven Skelton. Either case is not likley to make us a playoff team.

If we do not draft a good QB this year then we will face the same problems the next year and the years after that until we finally find a good young QB who it will likely take 2 years to develop. You have to at some point draft a QB and the ones statistically most likely to be a QBOTF come out of the first round. You cannot continue to feed off the bottom by signing FA QBs and expect to ever be a consistent winner. When you build a team you first start with a QB. He above all else will determine your success. Many seem to think Skelton may be the man. I think that is mostly wishful and hopeful dreaming. There is nothing in his NFL resume to suggest he is a good starting NFL QB. If he is to be our starting QB who is going to be his backup? Max Hall? Max should not even be in the NFL. Are we going to release DA? I would think so but remember we are the Cardinals and we took him out of all the QBs available last year to replace Kurt Warner. I just do not trust the competence of our owners or our GM or even Whiz at this moment. He is the one that started Max Hall over Skelton. I do not know if he had any say in picking up Hall or drafting Skelton as I still do not know after 50 years who does the drafting in this organization and I use the word organization very loosely.

 

[Buckybird]

If we do not draft a good QB this year then we will face the same problems the next year and the years after that until we finally find a good young QB who it will likely take 2 years to develop. You have to at some point draft a QB and the ones statistically most likely to be a QBOTF come out of the first round. You cannot continue to feed off the bottom by signing FA QBs and expect to ever be a consistent winner. When you build a team you first start with a QB. He above all else will determine your success. .

John, you also don't draft a 1st rd QB for the sake of drafting one either.

As Wiz said a few days ago, he didn't feel the sure fire #1 QB was available like Bradford last year & I 100% agree. IMO big question marks on on the table with Newton, Gabbert & Mallet...buyer beware!!!

 

[Stout]

My thoughts on taking a QB this year is not that he will help out this year. Hopefully we get a QB who would be our starter in pehaps 2 years and hopefully for years on forward. We are going to have to go with whoever we can sign this year or with an unproven Skelton. Either case is not likley to make us a playoff team.

The problem with your logic is that, if we draft a QB and we don't have a CBA in place, we are basically going to pay him for a wasted year of service. You want a rookie to be ready in perhaps 2 years? Try perhaps THREE years; he will get almost zero development without a CBA in place.

 

[WildBB]

The problem with your logic is that, if we draft a QB and we don't have a CBA in place, we are basically going to pay him for a wasted year of service. You want a rookie to be ready in perhaps 2 years? Try perhaps THREE years; he will get almost zero development without a CBA in place.

Just having someone like Gabbart in the mix this year would be good for the team going forward.

There is opportunity to compete in this division going ahead, but your going to have to address the QB spot 1st, if that is going to happen. Better try it sooner than later imho.

If Gabbart's there, he's the pick.

 

[Stout]

Just having someone like Gabbart in the mix this year would be good for the team going forward.

There is opportunity to compete in this division going ahead, but your going to have to address the QB spot 1st, if that is going to happen. Better try it sooner than later imho.

If Gabbart's there, he's the pick.

Well, outside of what we're debating, it is my opinion that KW will pass on him or Newton.

Remember, even if we drafted him, Gabbert probably won't be in the mix. There is very little chance he'll develop much, and almost no chance he would see the field. Even if we can't get a vet in until very late, I'd much rather ride with Skelton this year than draft Gabbert or Newton.

 

[lobo]

John, you also don't draft a 1st rd QB for the sake of drafting one either.

As Wiz said a few days ago, he didn't feel the sure fire #1 QB was available like Bradford last year & I 100% agree. IMO big question marks on on the table with Newton, Gabbert & Mallet...buyer beware!!!

He may not be sure, but I am....anything is possible as we all know, but that would be one in the team picture as an all time stupid move.....unless he wants out.

 

[desertdawg]

I don't see a QB in this draft that will "produce" in his first season either.

I see Gabbert, I think he will be a pretty darn good QB, I don't see Superbowl.

Newton, I see a lot differently than others, I think he will be great or at least better than Gabbert. I don't see bust mode, maybe over hyped, but he will still be in the League in 5 years time (IMO) and probably be one of the better QBs in the land by then.

I don't like the idea of drafting a QB later in the rounds, give me Liberty or give me death. Bulger...I don't think so.
Smith is a Free Agent, if we don't draft, we better call him.
Orton or McNaab, you better think Skelton is the future.
Palmer or Kolb, I'd take Palmer or Kolb and I wouldn't need a diaper.

I still want Newton or Gabbert with Skelton probably getting the nod. Next year will show promise or poop, I can handle not making the playoffs but I want some promise.

 

[lobo]

Well, outside of what we're debating, it is my opinion that KW will pass on him or Newton.

Remember, even if we drafted him, Gabbert probably won't be in the mix. There is very little chance he'll develop much, and almost no chance he would see the field. Even if we can't get a vet in until very late, I'd much rather ride with Skelton this year than draft Gabbert or Newton.

You (or anyone) can load all three and get them on the first stage out of Dodge. Maybe keep Skelton as a scout team guy...that is it.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

The problem with your logic is that, if we draft a QB and we don't have a CBA in place, we are basically going to pay him for a wasted year of service. You want a rookie to be ready in perhaps 2 years? Try perhaps THREE years; he will get almost zero development without a CBA in place.

If there is no CBA there are no services to be rendered and no contract in effect. In other words: no negotiations, no agreement on a contract until there's a league wide deal.

 

[kerouac9]

If there is no CBA there are no services to be rendered and no contract in effect. In other words: no negotiations, no agreement on a contract until there's a league wide deal.

We'll know more once the April 6 decision is rendered in the 2 weeks leading up to the draft. The other thing is that if the court overrules the lockout, we'd be able to impose a 6-year contract on the #5 overall pick. With a new CBA and a rookie pay scale, contracts are likely to be limited to 4 years even for top picks.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

We'll know more once the April 6 decision is rendered in the 2 weeks leading up to the draft. The other thing is that if the court overrules the lockout, we'd be able to impose a 6-year contract on the #5 overall pick. With a new CBA and a rookie pay scale, contracts are likely to be limited to 4 years even for top picks.

True. But, any court ruling to that effect would be appealed, and carry the issue beyond the draft. However, putting the appeal aside, a ruling against the lockout could bring parties back to the settlement table. I, for one, don't see an end much before July.

 

[D-Dogg]

Newton, I see a lot differently than others, I think he will be great or at least better than Gabbert. I don't see bust mode, maybe over hyped, but he will still be in the League in 5 years time (IMO) and probably be one of the better QBs in the land by then.

Dude, you are chewing some ganja brownies a little too much if you don't see the potential for epic bust with sCam Newton. It is as likely, or more, as him becoming a superstar stud.

 

[desertdawg]

Dude, you are chewing some ganja brownies a little too much if you don't see the potential for epic bust with sCam Newton. It is as likely, or more, as him becoming a superstar stud.

I just see most of his problems as being so far off the field. Everything he does right is on the field, I do know about his past. I really do believe ( might be the ganja butter ) Newton has everything he needs to get her done in the NFL. Physically speaking, bust is the furthest thing from my mind.

 

[kerouac9]

Dude, you are chewing some ganja brownies a little too much if you don't see the potential for epic bust with sCam Newton. It is as likely, or more, as him becoming a superstar stud.

I don't that anyone is avoiding the "potential" for "epic bust" with Cam Newton. I personally don't think that the potential for an "epic" bust along the lines of JaMarcus Russell or Ryan Leaf are there--no one's really made the parallels clear. But is the "potential" any greater for "bust" than there is with Von Miller? Than there was with Levi Brown?

Why?

 

[Stout]

I just see most of his problems as being so far off the field. Everything he does right is on the field, I do know about his past. I really do believe ( might be the ganja butter ) Newton has everything he needs to get her done in the NFL. Physically speaking, bust is the furthest thing from my mind.

So, you'd be cool if he was told to take a knee and he decided to shoot for glory instead?

 

[Crazy Canuck]

So, you'd be cool if he was told to take a knee and he decided to shoot for glory instead?

What's the problem? He'd only be second guessing the Coach like so many others on this board.

 

[desertdawg]

So, you'd be cool if he was told to take a knee and he decided to shoot for glory instead?

I never said anything like that. I know what he did in college.

 

[Stout]

What's the problem? He'd only be second guessing the Coach like so many others on this board.

Zing! Nice one, CC!

I never said anything like that. I know what he did in college.

I know, I just couldn't help it. Beg your pardon, DD.

 

[desertdawg]

I know, I just couldn't help it. Beg your pardon, DD.

No worries, Newton has made some pretty dumb moves in his short career. I can understand why people don't want him that high in the draft, I just think he will end up being a gamer.