Who else is excited for the new Suns era?

[mojorizen7]

Excited still?.

Yes. Nashball is over. Young players. Clean slate. A different approach is pending because the Suns no longer have the choice to continue re-treading the roster around an old core. Sarver and his basketball people must now create something from nothing for the first time since he arrived here.

All of that excites me.

 

[Griffin]

Those numbers are history. Do you honestly expect Dragic to be below 10 ppg and 8 apg mark?

Well, they aren't history yet, and that's my point. Fans of any team could point to any number of their currently underachieving players, especially just acquired, and proclaim that this is the year that they will realize their potential. But we know that for most of those players, it will not happen. Why should the Suns be an exception?

None of these new players have proven anything yet. None of them have played at an all-star level for the duration of a season. And that's probably why they were available for the Suns to pick up. Now that doesn't mean that some of them won't take advantage of their new opportunity and have great seasons like Gortat did last year. But I'm certainly not going to expect that. This isn't like having a much-coveted young player coming into his own. Almost all the players that make up the Suns team have been given up on by some other team.

I don't know what to expect from Dragic. He may very well be a career 12/6 guy who just overachieved for part of season last year while taking advantage of the fact that teams didn't exactly focus on him defensively. It's the same with Jeremy Lin. It will be interesting to watch, but can we really expect him to maintain that level of play for the rest of his career?

 

[JCSunsfan]

This franchise is suffering the effects of trying to ride Nashball two years two long. That is what it is. It cannot be changed. Based upon the present condition, this summer was a success. It is going to be low for a while, but one good deal, one good draft, can change things considerably.

We are where the Suns were in 1986. At that point, they traded Larry Nance for Kevin Johnson, Tyrone Corbin, Mark West and the pick that became Dan Majerle. One deal changed everything. There were hopes that KJ was going to be a good pg, but no one was sure. He was stuck on the bench behind Price in Cleveland. The pick was mid-first rounder and everyone booed when Majerle was picked. Corbin and West were throw ins but eventually became quite productive. Add to that a good FA signing in Chambers (who was paid an obscene amount of money at the time, and was a notoriously poor defender) and the transformation was nearly done.

Draqic is more of a sure thing than KJ was at that moment. We still have Gortat, who is a valuable piece to build with (not around) or trade for parts like we did with Nance.

I can't lie, I like the trading and drafting stuff as much as like watching the bball itself.

 

[Griffin]

Draqic is more of a sure thing than KJ was at that moment.

I don't know about that. KJ was the 7th overall pick in '87 so the Suns were getting a top-tier young project in his rookie season with arguably limitless potential. That's more like acquiring JJ or even Kidd than Dragic. KJ was 21 while Dragic is already 26 and going into his 5th season. And of course KJ put up 20/12/4 in his first full season with the Suns at 22 and I don't think anyone expects that from Dragic. I actually think Marshall has a better chance of developing into the Suns next great PG than Dragic.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I don't know about that. KJ was the 7th overall pick in '87 so the Suns were getting a top-tier young project in his rookie season with arguably limitless potential. That's more like acquiring JJ or even Kidd than Dragic. KJ was 21 while Dragic is already 26 and going into his 5th season. And of course KJ put up 20/12/4 in his first full season with the Suns at 22 and I don't think anyone expects that from Dragic. I actually think Marshall has a better chance of developing into the Suns next great PG than Dragic.

My point was that KJ was still an unknown quantity at that moment, not that Dragic will do what KJ did. I figured someone would take issue with that point. KJ was still a rookie and couldnt unseat Mark Price. JJ is a good comparison.

 

[jagu]

I think some of you guys aren't excited because this team isn't pushing for a ring. I won't be drinking any koolaid to believe they will either. Nonetheless it's better than having Nash and a bunch of misplaced overpaid parts in here trying to reach a goal that they can never attain. I'm one of the biggest Nash fans and even I'm glad that this Suns team can move on and rebuild or go in a different direction. That's the exciting part of it. I don't care if they lose but the unknown about this team is exciting. If Nash, Hill, and others were here we all knew it would be another 13th to 14th pick in the draft team again.

 

[Covert Rain]

Did I miss something? When did the new era start? I guess technically when a new era ends another begins. However, when this team has alot of young talent that you know will be on this team for some time to come and we actually manage to land a franchise player........

I will get excited then. Right now this doesn't feel like a new era......it feels like a stop gap.

 

[Budden]

Did I miss something? When did the new era start? I guess technically when a new era ends another begins. However, when this team has alot of young talent that you know will be on this team for some time to come and we actually manage to land a franchise player........

I will get excited then. Right now this doesn't feel like a new era......it feels like a stop gap.

I agree completely with this. So many people seem to want to claim that, unless the Suns management is doing something proactive (making trades, drafting new talent, or even cutting salary), they're not in the process of trying to setup a successful future. People believe that, because the Suns has not articulated a clear vision for the future with a roadmap on how they plan to get there, that the Suns have no idea what they plan to do. However, the unfortunate reality is that there is not much of anything the team can do at this point to improve the outlook of the team's future.

There is nothing to be excited about going into this season, however. We have a summer league team - a tryout squad or mostly players who are hoping to get their chance to make it in the NBA. Most of the guys will not make it. Most 26-year old players who came out of college 6 years ago and have bounced in and out of the NBA, gone to Europe for a couple years, or showed some promise in the D-League don't ever become impact players in the league. That's just the reality of our team. Just because you some specifics about each individual's story doesn't make them any more likely to be an outlier.

Now, that's not to say that there's no reason to watch the Suns play this season. It is to say, however, that if your reason for watching the Suns is that you want to see them win basketball games, then you're not going to enjoy what you see. Evaluate discarded wildcards in the hopes that one guy is actually worthy of being in the league? Sure. But even then, it's not exciting.

This current Suns team is a good 9 or 10 players away from being a contender for anything. So the Suns' plan is really obvious: acquire an entire roster of basketball players who are good enough to be a contender. Beyond that, what more can management say or do?

 

[elindholm]

I agree completely with this. So many people seem to want to claim that, unless the Suns management is doing something proactive (making trades, drafting new talent, or even cutting salary), they're not in the process of trying to setup a successful future. People believe that, because the Suns has not articulated a clear vision for the future with a roadmap on how they plan to get there, that the Suns have no idea what they plan to do. However, the unfortunate reality is that there is not much of anything the team can do at this point to improve the outlook of the team's future.

There is nothing to be excited about going into this season, however. We have a summer league team - a tryout squad or mostly players who are hoping to get their chance to make it in the NBA. Most of the guys will not make it. Most 26-year old players who came out of college 6 years ago and have bounced in and out of the NBA, gone to Europe for a couple years, or showed some promise in the D-League don't ever become impact players in the league. That's just the reality of our team. Just because you some specifics about each individual's story doesn't make them any more likely to be an outlier.

Now, that's not to say that there's no reason to watch the Suns play this season. It is to say, however, that if your reason for watching the Suns is that you want to see them win basketball games, then you're not going to enjoy what you see. Evaluate discarded wildcards in the hopes that one guy is actually worthy of being in the league? Sure. But even then, it's not exciting.

This current Suns team is a good 9 or 10 players away from being a contender for anything. So the Suns' plan is really obvious: acquire an entire roster of basketball players who are good enough to be a contender. Beyond that, what more can management say or do?

Definitely one of your most salient posts.

 

[Drop D]

This current Suns team is a good 9 or 10 players away from being a contender for anything. So the Suns' plan is really obvious: acquire an entire roster of basketball players who are good enough to be a contender. Beyond that, what more can management say or do?

Ummm, yeah. Show me a team whose 9th or 10th best player is better than our best player.

 

[Griffin]

Ummm, yeah. Show me a team whose 9th or 10th best player is better than our best player.

First we'd have to figure out who our best player is

 

[mojorizen7]

So the Suns don't have a vision? Is that the argument against this next season being a new era?
Nobody posting in here (including myself) knows if the Suns have a vision in place,or if its even worth a damn. Hopefully they do

99% of everything the Suns have done with the roster for the last 8 years has centered on or around Steve Nash. He's gone now. IMO that qualifies as a new era of basketball....regardless of the current status of the roster.

Stop-gap? Hell, if anything i'd qualify the last 2 seasons as a stop-gap. Only because their vision was foolish and the team ran in place

BTW,i agree that this current roster will be quite different than it is today in 2 or 3 years time. We hope!

 

[Sonec]

Well, they aren't history yet, and that's my point. Fans of any team could point to any number of their currently underachieving players, especially just acquired, and proclaim that this is the year that they will realize their potential. But we know that for most of those players, it will not happen. Why should the Suns be an exception?

None of these new players have proven anything yet. None of them have played at an all-star level for the duration of a season. And that's probably why they were available for the Suns to pick up. Now that doesn't mean that some of them won't take advantage of their new opportunity and have great seasons like Gortat did last year. But I'm certainly not going to expect that. This isn't like having a much-coveted young player coming into his own. Almost all the players that make up the Suns team have been given up on by some other team.

I don't know what to expect from Dragic. He may very well be a career 12/6 guy who just overachieved for part of season last year while taking advantage of the fact that teams didn't exactly focus on him defensively. It's the same with Jeremy Lin. It will be interesting to watch, but can we really expect him to maintain that level of play for the rest of his career?

You sure are a bit delusional. Dragic has proven he can be a consistent when he starts the game (last season in Houston d, he was better than Lin no doubt, stats as a starter proves that) and don't mess that with the stats as a Lowry's backup again and his previous Phx job. Second, those numbers are history, except if you live in the past, season ended period. I'm just stating the facts here.

 

[elindholm]

Dragic has proven he can be a consistent when he starts the game

He started 28 games for a lottery team that lost 7 of its last 9 games. It's too small a sample size to prove anything. And if he's getting his numbers at the expense of team success, that's not exactly cause for celebration, is it? At least Lin's flash in the pan coincided with team victories. The Rockets made it pretty clear which one they consider to be the better prospect.

I'm just stating the facts here.

You're hand-picking the facts which fit your narrative.

 

[Griffin]

last season in Houston d, he was better than Lin no doubt, stats as a starter proves that

Dragic as starter in 28 games: 18.0 ppg, 8.4 apg, 3.5 rpg in 36.5 mpg
Lin as starter in 25 games: 18.2 ppg, 7.7 apg, 3.7 rpg in 34.0 mpg

Explain how Dragic's stats as starter prove that he was better than Lin as starter.

those numbers are history, except if you live in the past, season ended period. I'm just stating the facts here.

By your own admission then, his stats in the games he started last year are also history and should be disregarded since the season ended, period.

 

[Mainstreet]

First we'd have to figure out who our best player is

You bring up a key point. I really had to think about it. I guess it is Marcin Gortat... at least for now. He would have the most trade value.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Typical Suns board. Complain and moan that we are not rebuilding and we need to tank etc. Then when we do, complain and moan that we are not any good and we have no future.

If you don't like where we are, what would you have done? Who would you have signed? Who would you have drafted?

Every fan is a draft master because he has the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Sonec]

do you guys have any facts to back up your disbelieve in him? All those 28 or sth games that Dragic started played great, so no reason to believe why wouldn't he continue doing that. Any games, unknown facts to prove me wrong?...that he's not a good if not great legit starting play-maker in this league? I think I know the answer. I'm out...

 

[JS22]

Dragic as starter in 28 games: 18.0 ppg, 8.4 apg, 3.5 rpg in 36.5 mpg
Lin as starter in 25 games: 18.2 ppg, 7.7 apg, 3.7 rpg in 34.0 mpg

Explain how Dragic's stats as starter prove that he was better than Lin as starter.

By your own admission then, his stats in the games he started last year are also history and should be disregarded since the season ended, period.

Didn't Lin average nearly 5 turnovers a game as a starter? You need to factor that in. And Lin is miserable defensively.

On a side note, this forum is so depressing. Not too long ago it was active and we had a ton of different posters. Some were positive about the Suns and some were negative. Now it's basically the same 10 people bitching about every little thing.

 

[Sonec]

and Griffin do the +/- of those numbers, you'll see Dragic is above Lin, also much better defensive player. I'm out...

 

[elindholm]

Typical Suns board. Complain and moan that we are not rebuilding and we need to tank etc. Then when we do, complain and moan that we are not any good and we have no future.

I'm not complaining. I've been saying all along that this team's asset fundamentals are far, far too weak for a quick recovery to be possible. Sure, they had an okay off-season, even a good one, given what they had to work with. And it's probably a step in the right direction, but it's a very small one. For people to talk about the playoffs this season is staggeringly unrealistic, but acknowledging that fact isn't "complaining"; it's just the way it is.

Every fan is a draft master because he has the benefit of hindsight.

That's why I don't follow draft prospects. If the best basketball minds in the country can't predict who is going to pan out and who isn't, I know I don't have a chance.

 

[desertdawg]

If you really want a new era then we have to can Gentry and bring in a up and comer, I'd take UofA's Coach Miller > Alvin and the Wimpmunks. I know we can't get Miller and it bugs me when folks propose stuff that won't ever happen so I apologize, that idea aint worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on.

I'm just saying I aint feeling Gentry, especially if we heading in a new direction. If Gentry stays, it stays the same and the only way to truley get a New Era is by going to the mall.

 

[Chaplin]

If you really want a new era then we have to can Gentry and bring in a up and comer, I'd take UofA's Coach Miller > Alvin and the Wimpmunks. I know we can't get Miller and it bugs me when folks propose stuff that won't ever happen so I apologize, that idea aint worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on.

I'm just saying I aint feeling Gentry, especially if we heading in a new direction. If Gentry stays, it stays the same and the only way to truley get a New Era is by going to the mall.

Dan Majerle is almost certainly going to be our next head coach. Just a matter of when.

 

[SirStefan32]

and Griffin do the +/- of those numbers, you'll see Dragic is above Lin, also much better defensive player. I'm out...

Oh good Lord, not another +/- guy.

I like Dragic a lot, and I think he will surprise a lot of people this year, but saying he was much better than Lin is not really true. He is definitely a better defender, but he was not better than Lin last season.

 

[SirStefan32]

Dan Majerle is almost certainly going to be our next head coach. Just a matter of when.

In my opinion, Dan has no business being a head coach in the NBA. I like him, he was one of my favorite players back in the day, I liked him as an announcer, I am sure he is a great guy to have around, but I've seen nothing that would suggest he'd be a good head coach.