Who is the best DT in the draft?

[Goldfield]

I keep hearing of a DT that is pretty good but I never hear WHO he is...

 

[jon_nyaz]

Why he's Anquan Boldin of course!

 

[KingofCards]

I hope to God, we do not draft another defensive tackle.

We need a CB. We have to draft a bad ass corner back.

Or which every QB is still available.

 

[Goldfield]

I agree we need a CB. But no CB will be good if we dont have a passrush...

 

[KingofCards]

Originally posted by BEERZ
I agree we need a CB. But no CB will be good if we dont have a passrush...

I think D. Johnson, C. Pace, K. King and hopefully W. Bryant will suffice. Plus KVB might be back.

D. Johnson had like 10 tackles on Sunday. We do not need another young DT. Maybe we can actually sign a pass rusher this offseason. If anything we need a proven guy to sign here. As Section 11 said. W. Bryant better step up or he will be working at the Candy Store as a bouncer.

We need speed in the defensive backfield.

 

[Goldfield]

I was way down on D.Johnson before this year. But He has show ALOT of improvment this year.


I think we need atleast one DT and one-two CB's

 

[KingofCards]

Originally posted by BEERZ
I was way down on D.Johnson before this year. But He has show ALOT of improvment this year.


I think we need atleast one DT and one-two CB's

We need so much. If we don't get a real coach and preform in the free agency period I think we are fvcked anyway.

This year we aren't arguing about the franchise crap. Do we even have a canidate for the franchise tag?

I think we should franchise the Avengers. Cody took his mask off and tossed it up and stated the Avengers are done.

I say we use the franchise tag on them.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Originally posted by KingofCards

I think we should franchise the Avengers. Cody took his mask off and tossed it up and stated the Avengers are done.

WHAT? Avenger is that true? Why? Don't make me bring Cheesebeef out of Retirement!

 

[buff17]

Vince Wilfork from The U...

They call him Baby Sapp.....even though he is bigger? hrmmm

 

[KingofCards]

Originally posted by cheesebeef
WHAT? Avenger is that true? Why? Don't make me bring Cheesebeef out of Retirement!

As far as I know it is true. I party with him every game now for two years. I sit right behind them.

He took his cape and his mask and tossed it up. He sits in the first row. He said he is done with it. I can understand why. But won't pretend to guess nor conject his reasons, because he did not share them with me. And would I also like to say this was right after the game and maybe he has reconsidered.


I can certainly understand and have taken advantage of real anonymity.

I probably shouldn't have annouced this. If so he'll give me **** for it.

 

[Chainthroer]

BEERZ – To answer your original question, Vince Wilfork, DT Miami-Fla, is probably the most dominating DT in this year’s draft. He has real speed (fast off the ball & quick penetration); plays low to the ground and manhandles OLs. Weakness is weight & is only 6’2”– is about 355 and cannot gain any more; needs to stay in the area of 345; could tire in a 16 game schedule; would probably have to be played with backup coming in sporadically to keep him from wearing out.
Next best is Tommy Harris from Oklahoma. Has gotten a lot of hype, but has speed and penetration ability too. His weakness is not enough weight – i.e., about 285 and should be bigger (about 300 lbs) as a DT; but could also be used as a DE.
I think we do need a top grade DT. We simply have not penetrated the OL to get to QBs up the middle. We can get a quality CB in 2nd round or even third round.

 

[KingofCards]

No we can't get a real cb in the 3rd round.

That is what we have now. We should have taken Trufant last year. If we take another dt in the first round I will puke.

 

[Loyal Card 17]

vince would probally be the one to succeed in the nfl, because of his size. if harris could gain 20 lbs of good weight then i would consider him. wilfork is the right answer. besides in that dessert heat , he would lose 25lbs easy in the first scrimage.

 

[KingofCards]

Originally posted by Loyal Card 17
vince would probally be the one to succeed in the nfl, because of his size. if harris could gain 20 lbs of good weight then i would consider him. wilfork is the right answer. besides in that dessert heat , he would lose 25lbs easy in the first scrimage.

Well I hope we do not draft anyone that needs to gain or lose 25 lbs. The first and last scrimmages are in the beautiful and perfect weather of Flagstaff, Az. He isn't going to lose 25lbs up there in one day. You have no idea what you are talking about. Oh and it is a DESERT not a DESSERT. Huge difference, especially in the context of your words.

Dude, I don't care who you are. But gaining or losing weight is not going to help you. I say if the kid ain't right he ain't right. Don't draft his fat or underweight ass. That is why they have the 5-7th rounds. It is a reach.

Pick a Qb if they drop or a CB. Or the best athlete available.

Definitely not some dude with a weight problem on either side of the spectrum.

 

[Harry]

Tommie Harris of Oklahoma is tops with the people I converse with. Wilfork would be next. The list drops off badly after that but the consensus seems to be Starks from Maryland.

I think it's doubtful the Cards get any of the above unless they trade down (though Harris will go top 5). If they stay put Will Smith, the DE from Ohio State figures to be their target unless Roethlisberger falls into their lap. Then they will have to make a decision.

I don't think any CBs go in the top 10.

Of course, free agency could change everything.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by BEERZ
I keep hearing of a DT that is pretty good but I never hear WHO he is...

That would be the one & only VINCE WILFORK of U of Miami fame. Call him Mr. Stud. 6'2" and down to a svelte 325 pounds. Runs like the wind, relentless, tosses QBs around like rag dolls, eats RBs for lunch, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. Constantly double and tripled teams. Catch him in the Orange Bowl game tomorrow night. He plays witha cape on. His # is 75. Contrary to what some say, he does not tire. That is the Miami system. Rotate 8 DLs and go hard every game and do not blitz because they are such bad azzes they don't need no stinkin blitzes. Chris Rix has nightmares about Vince Wifork.

"Strengths: Say a nickname like “Baby Sapp”, and the entire room hushes to hear about him. Lots of undue expectations follow a nickanme like that, and heck, it pretty much wiped out the guy known as “Baby Jordan”. Well, Vince Wilfork is so talented he oughtta be known as “Daddy Sapp”. Why not? He’s got roughly forty pounds on his namesake.

A freak of nature even compared with other big and fast 300-pounders, Wilfork is a tough, thick-bodied interior lineman who’s lovin’ what he’s doin’ when he’s on a football field. Following an impressive lineage of Hurricane defensive linemen such as Jerome Brown, Cortez Kennedy, Russell Maryland, and Warren Sapp, Wilfork belongs in that pantheon of luminaries because he cannot be blocked one-on-one and must be double-teamed, and even then he still collapses the pocket or stuffs the run. Wilfork’s low center of gravity gives him terrific leverage on offensive linemen, and he has abnormally quick feet that give him a powder keg burst.
Enough said

 

[CaptTurbo]

Originally posted by KingofCards
I hope to God, we do not draft another defensive tackle.

We need a CB. We have to draft a bad ass corner back.

Or which every QB is still available.

Whats the point of getting cover guys if we cant get to the QB. No CB can cover for 8 seconds. NONE.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

The Raiders like Harris.....if both Big Ben and Eli are gne he would be my choice....I got this from a mock draft site:





"The Raiders have a number of needs so they could go a lot of ways with this pick but Harris would be a good fit for the silver and black and would give them the impact pass rusher they lack at this point. Harris has been a force for the Sooners since his true freshman season and, should he choose to enter the 2004 Draft, should be one of the elite players available and potentially the first defensive player chosen. Quarterbacks Eli Manning and Ben Roethlisberger will also garner serious consideration here but Al Davis wants to win now and taking a young quarterback to groom for the future behind Rich Gannon won't make Oakland better in 2004. Pitt wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald is also the kind of flashy pick that Al Davis loves if he wanted to make a splash with this pick and draft a successor to Tim Brown and Jerry Rice."

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

If the Cards are looking seriously at Will Smith then maybe they should consider a trade down.#3 would be a high slot for him even though i think he and Sean Taylor are the 2 best players i saw this past year.

 

[Southpaw]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
If the Cards are looking seriously at Will Smith then maybe they should consider a trade down.#3 would be a high slot for him even though i think he and Sean Taylor are the 2 best players i saw this past year.

I'm not sold on Smith that high. I wonder if he is a good player on a real good defense or real good player on a good defense. I think the Fiesta Bowl will speak volumes on this one.

 

[BACH]

The War Room rates Harris as the best player in the entire draft and Wilfolk as #13, but of the two I think Wilfolk is the best fit for this team. We need a big body inside and Wilfolk outweighs Harris by 50 lbs. Here their bios from the War Room:

Tommie Harris
War Room analysis
Harris, cousin of Lions offensive tackle Stockar McDougle and Eagles defensive end Jerome McDougle, has been a full-time starter since his first game as a true freshman in 2001. He didn't play up to his potential in 2002, but he has bounced back as a senior, playing played with a much more consistent effort. He is the nation's most gifted defensive tackle and could be the first player drafted in '04 if he leaves school after his junior season.

Harris bulked up in the offseason prior to '03 and is in the best shape of his life. He is athletic, powerful, quick and explosive. He has become better at occupying two blockers against the run when called upon to do so, but his strength is penetration. He shows exceptional initial quickness, a powerful upper body, burst through the line, good change of direction and instincts when tracking down the ball. He also has great closing speed in pursuit.

Harris' best fit in the NFL will be in a one-gap scheme where he can use his initial quickness, athleticism and nose for the ball to provide a constant disruption vs. the run and inside penetration on the pass rush.

Vince Wilfork
War Room analysis
Wilfork is in his first season as a full-time starter after rotating with a deep group of defensive linemen in his first two seasons at Miami. A fourth-year junior, he considered entering the 2003 draft and would have been a first-round pick. Wilfork returned to the Hurricanes after promising his mother, who passed away as a result of a stroke last fall, that he would graduate. He likely will enter the '04 draft and should be the second defensive tackle selected behind Oklahoma's Tommie Harris, somewhere in the top 10.

Wilfork is showing great hustle in '03 and has developed into much more of a complete player. He is quick and active for his size and is strong at the point of attack. He excels at controlling the line in a two-gap scheme. He also has enough mobility, athleticism and strength to become a factor as a pocket-collapsing interior power rusher.

He needs to play with better leverage and consistency, but when fresh he is one of the nation's most dominant and disruptive tackles. He almost always commands double-team attention because he is too quick, big and powerful for most guards to handle by themselves. He has improved at consistently fighting through those double teams.

Wilfork is a terrific athlete for his size, but his biggest challenge will be to keep his weight down in the NFL, because the heavier he gets, the less explosive he becomes.

 

[Southpaw]

Based on those analyses, it would seem Harris and Smith are as good as they are going to get and Wilfork can only get better. This weight thing with him is old info. Check him out in the Orange Bowl tomorrow. Lean, mean, fighting machine. He has a new wife, a new baby and his personal grieving for his recently deceased parents is less of a distraction. On top of that he is one heckuva nice guy.

 

[football karma]

I have come to some conclusions on the draft:

1. I have promised myself this year not to get too caught up in "the measurables" of a player. Height, weight, 40 time, etc. As long as those measurables are in the ballpark, I am discounting the impact of .1 of a second in 40 time, 15 lbs, etc amongst the various players.

2. The Cardinals should draft the very best player regardless of position. Year after year they reach for people based on need with the results we are all familiar with. If they are at #3 and the best player still on the board by a far margin over the rest is Roy Williams ---- take him. Dont reach for Will Smith or DeAngelo Hall because you need a pass rusher or a corner.

 

[Harry]

Weight issues are on-going problems, but more often than not, they can be contoled through incentive clauses. Wilfork did not have the year scouts had hoped he would have. His surrounding cast decline and he didn't appear to elevate his game and move forward this season. I was surprised to read the glowing report for the Horton gang. I wonder how late in the season they scouted him. He is readily available for viewing most weeks. Wilfork actually had twice as many tackles this year (he didn't start last season), but had fewer sacks this year. He just didn't get the penetration he got last season.

I still like him a great deal and I think he goes in the top 10, but I don't know he solves the Cards' pass rushing issues.

Free agency this year, will definitely dictate the Cards first round selection unless they go QB.

 

[D-Dogg]

Originally posted by swd1974
Whats the point of getting cover guys if we cant get to the QB. No CB can cover for 8 seconds. NONE.

And no pass rush can get to the qb if receivers are open within 2 seconds. NONE.

It goes both ways.

We need STUD corners who will allow our average line to get penetration.

Even if we had Stud DL, our corners are so crap that the pressure wouldn't matter. Three step, throw, completion. Repeat as necessary. I think our DL is sufficient (add to it in FA to bring in a difference maker) but our corners are seriously lacking.

We should grab a CB in FA if we can, and our second pick overall should be a CB (assuming we don't trade down). Hell, Vasher may even be available then...doubtful but dang...there are a lot of good CBs in this draft in rounds one and early 2. We would get an average to sub par CB in round 3, IMO.