Who is the most underrated Cardinal?

[Mr.Dibbs]

McCown will be in Dallas next year- mark my words. I'm not saying he'll start, but I'd bet money he'll be in Texas.

We all know he'll see some playing time this year, even if it's just for a series or two. Being that our new center is #67, some kid name Duct Tape, I really don't see Warner having good protection on a steady basis until maybe game 4 or 5. He'll get popped a few times and McCown will have to come in.

 

[JPlay]

oline sucked... playcalling was terrible.. no real running threat... hurt WR... and oh yeah.. first year starting....


other than that... everything was peachy.

Oh yeah add in no-name QB that sucked and you have 2004/2005 Cards.

 

[Tony W]

Underrated Card

Can someone explain to me why Marcel can't catch a break with this team? He's a bruising back with decent speed and quickness. I have yet to see this "speed" and quickness of JJ Arrington. For all Shipps been through he should of at least had the opportunity to compete for the Starting spot. Does Denny hate this guy or what?

 

[clif]

Can someone explain to me why Marcel can't catch a break with this team? He's a bruising back with decent speed and quickness. I have yet to see this "speed" and quickness of JJ Arrington. For all Shipps been through he should of at least had the opportunity to compete for the Starting spot. Does Denny hate this guy or what?

Read this article and you will know why. He is not the speedy big play back that DG thinks JJ is.

http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=59276

 

[vince56]

oline sucked... playcalling was terrible.. no real running threat... hurt WR... and oh yeah.. first year starting....

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Looks like Plummer apologists have morphed into McCown apologists

 

[clif]

Excuses, excuses, excuses.

Looks like Plummer apologists have morphed into McCown apologists

Give me a freakin break... Is it a coincidence that only 2 starters from last years online are even on the team?

1 is a backup... 1 is a starter and already being called out of shape, and the other is out of the league IIRC.


Our RB from last year has retired!

Our offensive coordinator is unemployed!

Could these issues have contributed to Joshs' performance?

I don't think he is underrated.. more like hated.

 

[joeshmo]

Can someone explain to me why Marcel can't catch a break with this team? He's a bruising back with decent speed and quickness. I have yet to see this "speed" and quickness of JJ Arrington. For all Shipps been through he should of at least had the opportunity to compete for the Starting spot. Does Denny hate this guy or what?

If Green hated him he wouldnt be on the team anymore, and he wouldnt have given him the #2 spot right away coming off of a long hiatus from a major leg injury.

Green uses his #1, #2, and #3 RB(In some cases) a lot through out the game. Shipp will get his playing time and plenty of touches. Heck we even know that JJ and Shipp will be in the backfield at the same time on some plays.

 

[Shane]

Give me a freakin break... Is it a coincidence that only 2 starters from last years online are even on the team?

1 is a backup... 1 is a starter and already being called out of shape, and the other is out of the league IIRC.


Our RB from last year has retired!

Our offensive coordinator is unemployed!

Could these issues have contributed to Joshs' performance?

I don't think he is underrated.. more like hated.

Dont let facts get in the way.

Although ther not all correct.

 

[joeshmo]

Give me a freakin break... Is it a coincidence that only 2 starters from last years online are even on the team?

1 is a backup... 1 is a starter and already being called out of shape, and the other is out of the league IIRC.

What you talking about.

Davis, Wells, Step, Bridges are all still on the team. By my count thats 4.

As for the last sentence I assume you mean Bridges being the backup, Shelton as the out of shape guy, and I am going to assume the guy you think is out of the league is Clement, well he is not out of the league he is a backup for the Broncos.

 

[clif]

What you talking about.

Davis, Wells, Step, Bridges are all still on the team. By my count thats 4.

As for the last sentence I assume you mean Bridges being the backup, Shelton as the out of shape guy, and I am going to assume the guy you think is out of the league is Clement, well he is not out of the league he is a backup for the Broncos.

No I was referring to Cameron Spikes.


I will correct one thing though... 3 starters are left.. Step, Davis, and Wells.

Shelton, Clement, Spikes are gone, and Bridges is on the bench.

 

[joeshmo]

No I was referring to Cameron Spikes.

Spikes is on the Broncos as well.

 

[clif]

Spikes is on the Broncos as well.

Might as well be out of the league... he won't get any PT


The point remains.. there are a million factors as to why this offense struggled last year, but the most convienent one is to blame the QB. There was a reason that DG made sweeping changes on the offense, but people seem to forget that.

 

[vince56]

Give me a freakin break... Is it a coincidence that only 2 starters from last years online are even on the team?

1 is a backup... 1 is a starter and already being called out of shape, and the other is out of the league IIRC.


Our RB from last year has retired!

Our offensive coordinator is unemployed!

Could these issues have contributed to Joshs' performance?

I don't think he is underrated.. more like hated.

Calm down.

My position is that he may develop into something good down the road, but right now he just doesn't have it. He hasn't proven otherwise yet, and that seems to be the most logical judgement.

 

[joeshmo]

The point remains.. there are a million factors as to why this offense struggled last year, but the most convienent one is to blame the QB. There was a reason that DG made sweeping changes on the offense, but people seem to forget that.

And Josh was one of them changes, yet some seem to forget that as well.

And I blame a lot of people for our O sucking last year. And Yes Josh was part of the problem.

 

[Dr. Jones]

No contest.... Marcel Shipp.

 

[Stout]

Excuses, excuses. Yes, we had a lot of problems. Those problems DO NOT excuse a propensity to hold the ball far too long. They do NOT excuse an inability to see open receivers and get them the ball. They do NOT excuse an inability to check down. Those faults, which Josh had in spades last year, lie squarely on the QB's shoulders.

 

[clif]

And Josh was one of them changes, yet some seem to forget that as well.

And I blame a lot of people for our O sucking last year. And Yes Josh was part of the problem.

No doubt... but he is still on the team and so you have to atleast feel that DG has some confidence in his abilities.

 

[clif]

Excuses, excuses. Yes, we had a lot of problems. Those problems DO NOT excuse a propensity to hold the ball far too long. They do NOT excuse an inability to see open receivers and get them the ball. They do NOT excuse an inability to check down. Those faults, which Josh had in spades last year, lie squarely on the QB's shoulders.

and you could say that for about 3/4 of the Qb's in the league. I'm not debating whether or not McCown is the most underrated cardinal player since I already stated my opinion as that being Leonard Davis, but I do think the guy gets a bad rap.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I believe I understand the question... and, so - it's "without a shadow of doubt" -

RUSSELL DAVIS....

 

[joeshmo]

Excuses, excuses. Yes, we had a lot of problems. Those problems DO NOT excuse a propensity to hold the ball far too long. They do NOT excuse an inability to see open receivers and get them the ball. They do NOT excuse an inability to check down. Those faults, which Josh had in spades last year, lie squarely on the QB's shoulders.

I smell a 10+ page thread a brewing.

 

[joeshmo]

No doubt... but he is still on the team and so you have to atleast feel that DG has some confidence in his abilities.

As a 2nd stringer, yes I do.

 

[clif]

I smell a 10+ page thread a brewing.

nah not because of me. I apologize for my contributions to this getting off topic. The OB obiviously won't be decided anytime soon..so the discussion is pointless

 

[kerouac9]

Can some one please tell me who it is that's "underrating" Marcel Shipp? It's not the local media. It's not 85% of the posters on this board. It's not the national media (who always mentions his name). Who is it? Do you people really think that Marcel Shipp is a 1200 yard, 10 TD back and no one wants to say it?

Good call on Ross Kolodeji, as well. I almost mentioned him. They said last Saturday that he's being trained at all four positions on the D-line. He's the definition of a good backup: cheap and effective.

 

[mncardfan]

Can some one please tell me who it is that's "underrating" Marcel Shipp? It's not the local media. It's not 85% of the posters on this board. It's not the national media (who always mentions his name). Who is it? Do you people really think that Marcel Shipp is a 1200 yard, 10 TD back and no one wants to say it?

I would say (and admitidly it sounds stupid) all the coaches he has played for. He basically never gets the starting job, there always seems to be someone brought in to start before him. ie: T. Jones, E. Smith, and now JJ.

Obviously the coaches know better than us what good talent is, but they really never give him the starting position because young talent coming in or old talent hanging around. And truthfully I have not seen the national media hyping Shipp until this year cause he is coming back from injury and they always say the combo of JJ and Shipp will be good. However the national media is ALL OVER the JJ starting/NFL rookie of the year thing.

mncardfan

 

[conraddobler]

Excuses, excuses. Yes, we had a lot of problems. Those problems DO NOT excuse a propensity to hold the ball far too long. They do NOT excuse an inability to see open receivers and get them the ball. They do NOT excuse an inability to check down. Those faults, which Josh had in spades last year, lie squarely on the QB's shoulders.

You are correct in all you say and yet completely wrong in my opinon.

You are correct that all those things he did and that they are all bad things for a QB to do.

You are assuming he will never learn not to do those things at least I'm assuming you are implying that by your tone.

I think that's were the difference of opinion really is on the whole subject, those that like the guy believe he might get it those that hate the guy never believe he will.

He was a kid with a lot of illusions that got built up even worse by DG and then all taken away and deservedly so but maybe through all that he will find out what it really means to be an NFL QB.

I think he comes out of this and becomes a starter but it's only my opinion we will have to see.