Who trades for Rosen?

[BigRedRage]

I watched that whole round hoping we could squeeze a first for Rosen. Value for him is the only way to save face right now

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[bojack]

What did Murray say to Rosen???

Not to Rosen, but about the situation... He was asked how he felt for Rosen's situation and instead of saying that sucks and he feels bad for anyone who that happens to he basically said "Im a winner, I win at everything I do, this is what I expected" or so it was reported on 98.7. I'm sure the sound bite will get posted soon. It was basically about him being great and coming off pretty disrespectful if they quoted him accurately.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Rosen may or may not have value with the rest of the league but the Cardinals put themselves in a position where they had NO leverage. Other teams know they can just hold out and get Rosen on the cheap. That doesn't mean they don't think he has potential but other GM's are being smarter about what they have to spend to get him.

No they didn’t. The skins, giants and fins couldn’t know that one if the others wouldn’t pony up an earlier pick. If they wanted him, and valued him, they wouldn’t gamble.

 

[moklerman]

Right, by literally preferring jones and Haskins.

Well, you don't know that. No one does. Until we know what the Cardinals were asking in compensation you can't assume it's a straight comparison.

 

[SECTION 11]

Lol the Pats just suck. What a bunch of *****. I hope Kraft gets convicted.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Potential future starters don't garner that much when the selling team wants too much and there are other QB's available to draft.

By saying wanting too much you mean a first rounder which no team was willing to give? Means none of those teams think enough of Rosen to trade for him.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I don't know. I'd say that Rosen's first round grade was reasonable so IMO, it's just that the Cardinals are asking way too much from teams that know they don't have to deal.

So you think they’re asking for more than a first?

 

[moklerman]

No they didn’t. The skins, giants and fins couldn’t know that one if the others wouldn’t pony up an earlier pick. If they wanted him, and valued him, they wouldn’t gamble.

One of the top QB's is still on the board so I think they played the draft a little better than that. They weren't as desperate for a QB as the Cardinals hoped and it shows in how QB's were drafted. Those teams played their cards in such a way that they didn't overspend and the Cardinals did not.

Cardinals overspent to get Rosen and then bailed and are trying to get another team to pay for their mistake. That isn't the rest of the league undervaluing Rosen, that is the rest of the league not also overpaying for him. The better GM's out there are wisely waiting for the Cardinals to sell cheap or go with other options.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Problem is they signed Hundley. Doubt they keep 3 QB's.

Like last year?

 

[moklerman]

So you think they’re asking for more than a first?

A first alone would be a pretty big price tag. There is just a big difference between a draft pick and a veteran. Teams will spend a 1st on their own pick but they rarely pony up a first rounder for someone that another team is willing to let go.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Well, you don't know that. No one does. Until we know what the Cardinals were asking in compensation you can't assume it's a straight comparison.

But if the cards were just asking for a 1 you’d have to acquiesce in that position, no?

 

[moklerman]

Like last year?

Yeah, last year's staff is the model by which we should anticipate actions. Most NFL teams don't keep 3 QB's on their rosters. Although, considering how the Cardinals have approached this, they probably will keep 3 QB's.

 

[PDXChris]

Dolphins most likely destination for Rosen?

https://fansided.com/2019/04/25/josh-rosen-trade-rumors-dolphins-cardinals/

 

[moklerman]

But if the cards were just asking for a 1 you’d have to acquiesce in that position, no?

"Only" a 1st? That's a steep price to ask for a QB everyone knows isn't in the Cardinals future plans. Just because the Cardinals overspent and misspent capital to get Rosen doesn't mean that because the rest of the league isn't willing to bail them out that Rosen is thought of poorly. I agree that he isn't a hot prospect at this point because of the dysfunctional and unproductive team he was on but because he isn't garnering what it cost the Cardinals to draft him doesn't mean he's considered garbage.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

One of the top QB's is still on the board so I think they played the draft a little better than that. They weren't as desperate for a QB as the Cardinals hoped and it shows in how QB's were drafted. Those teams played their cards in such a way that they didn't overspend and the Cardinals did not.

Cardinals overspent to get Rosen and then bailed and are trying to get another team to pay for their mistake. That isn't the rest of the league undervaluing Rosen, that is the rest of the league not also overpaying for him. The better GM's out there are wisely waiting for the Cardinals to sell cheap or go with other options.

But you can’t say it’s not a gamble.

Giants selected jones. Maybe they liked Rosen more. But they wait because as you say, they want to get him for value. But then the redskins offer a first next year, oh no! Giants don’t get him. Obviously they valued jones more than Rosen.

Skins selected Haskins. Maybe they liked Rosen more. But they wait because as you say, they want to get him for value. But then the fins trade for him. Oh no! Skins don’t get him. Obviously they valued Haskins mire than Rosen.

Seems pretty clear cut to me unless it comes out the cards asked for more than a 1st, in which case that’s the cards over valuing josh.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

A first alone would be a pretty big price tag. There is just a big difference between a draft pick and a veteran. Teams will spend a 1st on their own pick but they rarely pony up a first rounder for someone that another team is willing to let go.

In . . . other . . . words . . . they valued jones and Haskins more than Rosen. That’s what you’re saying. That’s what happened. I can’t even understand how you’re still arguing this.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yeah, last year's staff is the model by which we should anticipate actions. Most NFL teams don't keep 3 QB's on their rosters. Although, considering how the Cardinals have approached this, they probably will keep 3 QB's.

Actually, the cards have done that a lot under Keim. Palmer-Stanton-Lindley; Palmer-Stanton-Thomas.

 

[slanidrac16]

No sleep tonight for Keim and Bidwill. KK will sleep a little better. Keim and Bidwill have to be dreading their news conference. We can still land on our feet here. If we can deal Rosen , even if it’s for a 3rd round pick and trade down from our 33 for a 2 and 3 we could still have a second and 3 third round picks. We have to swallow our pride and accept the fact that we overvalued Rosen.

 

[HoodieBets]

In . . . other . . . words . . . they valued jones and Haskins more than Rosen. That’s what you’re saying. That’s what happened. I can’t even understand how you’re still arguing this.

Or they like being able to have an extra year of control on a QB.


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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

"Only" a 1st? That's a steep price to ask for a QB everyone knows isn't in the Cardinals future plans. Just because the Cardinals overspent and misspent capital to get Rosen doesn't mean that because the rest of the league isn't willing to bail them out that Rosen is thought of poorly. I agree that he isn't a hot prospect at this point because of the dysfunctional and unproductive team he was on but because he isn't garnering what it cost the Cardinals to draft him doesn't mean he's considered garbage.

Never said “garbage.” Never even cane close to intimating that. Don’t put words in my mouth. But it unequivocally means that at a minimum the giants liked jones more than Rosen and the skins liked Haskins mire than rosen, otherwise they would have traded those picks for him instead of taking the QB they DID choose. Those are facts.

 

[Timm Rosenbach]

No sleep tonight for Keim and Bidwill. KK will sleep a little better. Keim and Bidwill have to be dreading their news conference. We can still land on our feet here. If we can deal Rosen , even if it’s for a 3rd round pick and trade down from our 33 for a 2 and 3 we could still have a second and 3 third round picks. We have to swallow our pride and accept the fact that we overvalued Rosen.

Rosen is taking a nap. He got paid well and has nothing to worry about.

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[moklerman]

But you can’t say it’s not a gamble.

Giants selected jones. Maybe they liked Rosen more. But they wait because as you say, they want to get him for value. But then the redskins offer a first next year, oh no! Giants don’t get him. Obviously they valued jones more than Rosen.

Skins selected Haskins. Maybe they liked Rosen more. But they wait because as you say, they want to get him for value. But then the fins trade for him. Oh no! Skins don’t get him. Obviously they valued Haskins mire than Rosen.

Seems pretty clear cut to me unless it comes out the cards asked for more than a 1st, in which case that’s the cards over valuing josh.

No, they were able to wait and play the draft because there are multiple options at QB available. Rosen being the least expensive in terms of capital. All of the teams rumored to be interested in QB had the QB's they wanted fall to them and they didn't have to do a trade. That doesn't mean the whole league thinks Rosen is worthless. You blow it on a pick and tell everyone you're moving on and you're not going to get a high pick in return.

If Rosen was in this draft I'm sure that someone would have drafted him in the first round. But that isn't the scenario and teams just aren't going to bail the Cardinals out. If it turns out that all they wanted was a 4th and no one would bite, then I'd agree that the league didn't think much of Rosen. But it seems likely to me that the Cardinals wanted to recoup one of the 3 draft picks they spent to move up and they had nothing to bargain with.

 

[bojack]

Either we trade Rosen for a song or he's staying here and Keim will hedge his bet on Murray hoping to save face if he Murray is bad or gets hurt. Either way it's a cluster-f.

 

[moklerman]

Never said “garbage.” Never even cane close to intimating that. Don’t put words in my mouth. But it unequivocally means that at a minimum the giants liked jones more than Rosen and the skins liked Haskins mire than rosen, otherwise they would have traded those picks for him instead of taking the QB they DID choose. Those are facts.

Those aren't facts because you don't know that the Cardinals would have accepted that trade or what they were asking. A 1st round pick for a college prospect is different than trading for someone that you know you can likely get cheaper later.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Or they like being able to have an extra year of control on a QB.


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If you had a choice:

1. Quarterback you like for 5 years

2. Quarterback you like more for 4 years (and in giants case on a cheaper contract)

Which would you choose? Given the importance of the qb position I am always choosing the one I like more. Always. Not sometimes. Always. The position is just too important to settle for less just bc of one additional year of control. That’s ridiculous. If they have them graded the same, or just a sliver of difference, then okay. But for a qb? No way I go with the dude I think is the lesser talent.