Why Beasley was the #2 pick

[Chaplin]

I'm not sure you could argue that Beasley has actually played "sub-par" in his first few seasons. Sure, maybe not up to the level a #2 pick SHOULD be, but he hasn't been a bust by any means.

 

[DWKB]

Interesting article. So the few late bloomers they found according to their criteria are mostly point guards. It is rather hard to think of any big man late bloomer examples. I don't know much about the Wins Produced formula they employ, seems to be based on efficiency, but if you look at 2010/11 stats where Beasley enjoyed his best statistical season, he is ranked #450 out of 452 players in WP.

Beasley's best season wasn't 10/11 it was 09/10. He scored more in 10/11, but his defense got much worse and his rebounding dropped and his turnovers went up. His shooting % was the same in both seasons, but in 10/11 he just shot more.

 

[Russ Smith]

Beasley's best season wasn't 10/11 it was 09/10. He scored more in 10/11, but his defense got much worse and his rebounding dropped and his turnovers went up. His shooting % was the same in both seasons, but in 10/11 he just shot more.

And of course the big difference between Beasley and Nash is work ethic, Beasley is just not a hard working kid, he's extremely immature and has been a handful for coaches.

Nash didn't start off like an all star, but he was a hard worker and eventually got there.

Sure it's possible Beasley will but with his history you gotta wonder.

 

[elindholm]

Frye is an example of someone who got better after his first several years. Obviously he's not an All-Star, and has certain weaknesses that he'll never overcome, but he's a credible NBA player now.

 

[Suns_fan69]

... but he's a credible NBA player now.

You wouldn't know it from how this boards seems to perceive him.

 

[elindholm]

You wouldn't know it from how this boards seems to perceive him.

Well of course they are spoiled by memories of the Suns' other recent PFs, for example Marion's post game, Stoudemire's defense, and Amundson's outside shot.

 

[mojorizen7]

Well of course they are spoiled by memories of the Suns' other recent PFs, for example Marion's post game, Stoudemire's defense, and Amundson's outside shot.

Nice.

Speaking of Amundson,where's he been? Has he gotten any better with his offense? We're gonna need a role-player-guy like that on this team in a couple years.

 

[FArting]

Nice.

Speaking of Amundson,where's he been?

He is with the Pacers.

 

[Chaplin]

He is with the Pacers.

No, he's an unrestricted free agent and it's doubtful that Indiana resigns him.

 

[Phrazbit]

Its fine to say that he might have not hit his stride and he might be a very late bloomer, despite having boatloads of opportunity not only didnt improve... but regressed. But you dont throw around multiyear deals on the HOPE that a guy is something totally different than what he has been his entire career.

Its a dumb contract on a guy who has been a terrible player. The Wolves couldnt give him away on the last year of a cheaper deal. And we toss him 3 years on a higher rate.

 

[Chaplin]

Its fine to say that he might have not hit his stride and he might be a very late bloomer, despite having boatloads of opportunity not only didnt improve... but regressed. But you dont throw around multiyear deals on the HOPE that a guy is something totally different than what he has been his entire career.

Its a dumb contract on a guy who has been a terrible player. The Wolves couldnt give him away on the last year of a cheaper deal. And we toss him 3 years on a higher rate.

That is absolutely wrong. How you can think that a contract for barely over the MLE is dumb for a player that has that kind of potential is beyond me.

Tell me how he is such a terrible player. Especially for that amount of money. 6mil a year? That's about what Channing Frye makes, are you saying that Channing Frye is better than Beasley? 3 Years, 18 million for Beasley is almost a bargain considering Dragic got a lot more for about a quarter of a season of good play.

 

[Phrazbit]

That is absolutely wrong. How you can think that a contract for barely over the MLE is dumb for a player that has that kind of potential is beyond me.

Tell me how he is such a terrible player. Especially for that amount of money. 6mil a year? That's about what Channing Frye makes, are you saying that Channing Frye is better than Beasley? 3 Years, 18 million for Beasley is almost a bargain considering Dragic got a lot more for about a quarter of a season of good play.

Frye is grossly overpaid... would you disagree with that? And Beasley got 18 million for 4 years of bad play. The difference between Frye and Beasley is not as wide as you'd think. Beasley can create his own shot, but its an inefficient one and is much worse defensively than Frye is. I wouldnt want either of them at their current rates.

Beasley has shown nothing to warrant a multi-year deal, and the Wolves proved last year that he cant be given away at that salary rate.

 

[Chaplin]

Frye is grossly overpaid... would you disagree with that? And Beasley got 18 million for 4 years of bad play. The difference between Frye and Beasley is not as wide as you'd think. Beasley can create his own shot, but its an inefficient one and is much worse defensively than Frye is. I wouldnt want either of them at their current rates.

Beasley has shown nothing to warrant a multi-year deal, and the Wolves proved last year that he cant be given away at that salary rate.

Please tell me what constitutes "bad play". Sure he's not a great defender, but there are plenty of high salary people that don't play defense (Amare Stoudemire, anyone?). And 6 million a year isn't even a high salary.

I suppose you could go the slinslin route and try to quote stat after stat, but so far all you've done is present generalizations.

 

[SunsTzu]

Frye is grossly overpaid... would you disagree with that?

The vast majority of the league not on a rookie contract is grossly overpaid. The key is to overpay the right player at the right time. I'm not in favor of Beasley but that contract isn't ruin your franchise terrible, and if there is a team option on the 3rd year it's quite manageable.

NBA players almost never breakout after their 4th season, but the Suns are going to be bad the next couple years anyway and 6mil to Beasley won't be stopping them from being able to make significant moves.

 

[Phrazbit]

Please tell me what constitutes "bad play". Sure he's not a great defender, but there are plenty of high salary people that don't play defense (Amare Stoudemire, anyone?). And 6 million a year isn't even a high salary.

I suppose you could go the slinslin route and try to quote stat after stat, but so far all you've done is present generalizations.

What does he do that constitutes good play?! The guy has ONE skill, jump shooting, he does nothing else well. He does not get to the line, he does not rebound, he is abysmal defensively, he does not pass. This isnt even an Amare situation. At least you could rely on Amare being very productive offensively, thats not the case with Beasley. He requires a ton of possessions to get his points. He "gets his" at the expense of offensive flow. His "skill" is that he is an inefficient ISO chucker. Thats it... its his one talent. He is the kind of player who can drop 20 points on 19 shots, while getting massacred on the other end. Thats the kind of play he has done his entire career.

His college play did not translate to the NBA. He is not quick enough to penetrate the lane and he has no interest in contact. So you're left with a face up scorer who has a solid jump shot... and blows at absolutely everything else.

 

[mojorizen7]

What does he do that constitutes good play?! The guy has ONE skill, jump shooting, he does nothing else well. He does not get to the line, he does not rebound, he is abysmal defensively, he does not pass. This isnt even an Amare situation. At least you could rely on Amare being very productive offensively, thats not the case with Beasley. He requires a ton of possessions to get his points. He "gets his" at the expense of offensive flow. His "skill" is that he is an inefficient ISO chucker. Thats it... its his one talent. He is the kind of player who can drop 20 points on 19 shots, while getting massacred on the other end. Thats the kind of play he has done his entire career.

His college play did not translate to the NBA. He is not quick enough to penetrate the lane and he has no interest in contact. So you're left with a face up scorer who has a solid jump shot... and blows at absolutely everything else.

Phraz,i totally agree about Frye. At best he's a 3rd big off the bench of a loaded playoff team who's only role should be to stretch the defense for about 15 minutes per gm. That was an expensive Nashball signing

IMO Beasley's scoring(no matter how inefficient) will be needed during this rebuild process. I dont think(hope) the Suns have any delusions that Beasley is going to be a major part of the final puzzle in a couple years.
Its not a bad contract the likes of Frye's in terms of where the team was at at the time.
I wouldn't get to frazzled over it Phrazbit.

 

[Phrazbit]

Phraz,i totally agree about Frye. At best he's a 3rd big off the bench of a loaded playoff team who's only role should be to stretch the defense for about 15 minutes per gm. That was an expensive Nashball signing

IMO Beasley's scoring(no matter how inefficient) will be needed during this rebuild process. I dont think(hope) the Suns have any delusions that Beasley is going to be a major part of the final puzzle in a couple years.
Its not a bad contract the likes of Frye's in terms of where the team was at at the time.
I wouldn't get to frazzled over it Phrazbit.

I agree, its not going to kill the team on its own. But between Beasley, Frye, Childress, Warrick... thats a lot of money in guys signed to bad contracts and together it really hurts the cap. I'd hoped we'd broken the habit of flinging multi-year deals at above market value to marginal players when Sarver stopped playing drunken owner/GM. If we lose out on Eric Gordon (a questionable contract on its own) would anyone be stunned if we tossed out yet another multi-year deal to one of the remaining free agents? I fully expect us to.

We should be retaining flexibility during the rebuild, instead we are loading up on contracts that will be next to impossible to trade.

 

[BC867]

What does he do that constitutes good play?! The guy has ONE skill, jump shooting, he does nothing else well. He does not get to the line, he does not rebound, he is abysmal defensively, he does not pass.

Yes. Frye is a 2-Guard in the body of a Power Forward. Very soft for a big man. And, with his claim to fame playing 23 feet from the basket, he has been very inconsistent.

He is one of those "if only . . ." players.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes. Frye is a 2-Guard in the body of a Power Forward. Very soft for a big man. And, with his claim to fame playing 23 feet from the basket, he has been very inconsistent.

He is one of those "if only . . ." players.

... that post was in reference to Beasley.

But it could easily apply to Frye too so the confusion is understandable. Beasley is better at creating his own shot, while Frye passes up open looks that others create for him, both are inefficient face up players who play downy soft.

 

[Superbone]

Kevin Garnett took a few years, so did Marcus Camby. Its especially an issue when a player is emotionally immature.

It often takes players a little longer, especially big men. One of the great tragedies of the early entry players is that I believe many are immature in body and mind and end up failing and out of the league before they actually mature enough to be effective.

The NBA would be better off with a more developed minor league system.

Another name that comes to mind is Jermaine O'Neal.

 

[carey]

Classic recap of a head to head matchup against Blake Griffen. If this kid could get his act together, he has the talent to be really great.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znxwlkye9sI&feature=related

That was cool, thanks. You can see that neither player has changed much. Blake got all his points off dunks in that game and still does for the most part. Beasley sure seems to have all the moves, even back then. Floaters, dunks, runners, range out to the 3. He seems to like that 15-foot baseline shot quite a bit.

 

[carey]

Frye is grossly overpaid... would you disagree with that?

Frye is not grossly overpaid. He makes average money and he puts up average stats almost universally. I know you like to dip into hyperbole, I mean, who doesn't? Message boards are virtually known for it. Just try not to get to carried away with it.

This is my favorite article about Channing Frye and the myth that he is overpaid, from Bright Side of the Sun.

What these numbers say to me, along with watching Frye play for the Suns these last 2+ years, is that he's an excellent bench player, lackluster starter and overall average player. He sometimes plays terrible, sometimes plays great, and sometimes both in the same game (i.e. his 2-18 shooting, 14 rebound, outstanding defensive performance vs. Blake Griffin) and it averages out to, well, average.

His $5.6M salary this season is also remarkably close to the league mean average salary, which was reported to be $5.15 last season. So, we all agree that Frye will never be a star and isn't compensated like one. Let's take a look at a group of players with whom he can be fairly compared. The following is NBA centers and power forwards who are making annual salaries within $2M of Frye's this year.

 

[Phrazbit]

Im sorry, but Frye is very overpaid. A spot up shooter who constantly hesitates? There are plenty of big men on awful contracts around the league but it does not justify Frye's deal. Once in a blue moon he gets double digit boards. He is a big man who shot 41% from the field last year and is a turnstile defensively.

Where is the value there? A 41% shooting big man who does not rebound or defend?

And over the last 2 years Frye has shot 38% and 35% when Nash is out of the game. If the Suns could find anyone to take Frye off our hands they should do it in a heart-beat. He is the Jamal Crawford of big men, and that contract will be extremely hard to give away... hence him being grossly overpaid.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Frye is not grossly overpaid. He makes average money and he puts up average stats almost universally. I know you like to dip into hyperbole, I mean, who doesn't? Message boards are virtually known for it. Just try not to get to carried away with it.

This is my favorite article about Channing Frye and the myth that he is overpaid, from Bright Side of the Sun.

I agree with this.

 

[SweetD]

Im sorry, but Frye is very overpaid. A spot up shooter who constantly hesitates? There are plenty of big men on awful contracts around the league but it does not justify Frye's deal. Once in a blue moon he gets double digit boards. He is a big man who shot 41% from the field last year and is a turnstile defensively.

Where is the value there? A 41% shooting big man who does not rebound or defend?

And over the last 2 years Frye has shot 38% and 35% when Nash is out of the game. If the Suns could find anyone to take Frye off our hands they should do it in a heart-beat. He is the Jamal Crawford of big men, and that contract will be extremely hard to give away... hence him being grossly overpaid.

So what should he be paid, you forget the contract he signed had to do with him when he was a free agent. Look at Ryan Anderson, 9mil a year. Frye had a bum shoulder last year and when he was a free agent the Suns got him at a good price. This is not the NFL where you can just cut people when contracts are overpaid.