Why Beasley was the #2 pick

[SweetD]

you didn't answer that question. would you have signed him for 6 million for three years if he was available this off-season? and if so, why?

So somewhere around 4-5Million for three years. So would I pay the extra 1Million, sure.

Why ~
He still is a PF that can streach the floor
showed the year before he can be an ok/below average on D
last year (Lock Out Year) he had a shoulder problem, would expect him to improve his shooting % *Would rely on medical staff to see if this going to be problem in 3years
**At the time (No PF on roaster)**

 

[SunsTzu]

So your saying you should pay Anderson since he had one above average season, but not Frye?

No. I don't want to speak for anyone else but I think most of the people you're arguing with would not pay EITHER of them what they got. If they get that from another team let them walk(as the Magic wisely did). Again regardless how much Ryan Anderson or anyone else gets paid it does not make Frye's deal any better.

 

[Chaplin]

and good work putting words into someone's mouth here.

let me ask you this SweetD, have the Suns ever done ANYTHING wrong as far as your concerned?

Have they done anything right?

 

[Cheesebeef]

So somewhere around 4-5Million for three years. So would I pay the extra 1Million, sure.

again, you're not answering my question. with where we are today, i'm asking if you would give a FA of Frye's ilk 6 million dollars a year for the longest contract possible under the CBA, like the Suns did when they gave him 6 million for 5 years? nothing in the CBA would keep us from handing out a 4 year deal for 24 million dollars for Frye. would you do that?

 

[Chaplin]

again, you're not answering my question. with where we are today, i'm asking if you would give a FA of Frye's ilk 6 million dollars a year for the longest contract possible under the CBA, like the Suns did when they gave him 6 million for 5 years? nothing in the CBA would keep us from handing out a 4 year deal for 24 million dollars for Frye. would you do that?

After 2011-2012? No. After 2010-2011? Perhaps.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Have they done anything right?

i've said MULTIPLE times they have and give credit where credit's due and have eaten crow when i was wrong. nash was the right move back in 2004 and I gladly ate crow on that. Raja was the right move and i loved it at the time. drafting dragic was a great move. getting Grant Hill was a good move. Firing DA was the right move. Dudley's contract was the right move. the gortat trade was a good trade.

and i said all these... ad naseum Chap.

sadly, the terrible moves have outweighed the good ones over the Sarver's tenure.

 

[SunsTzu]

Have they done anything right?

Signing 1 year deals last offseason, Correcting that horrible Hedo trade and somehow getting Gortat and re-signing Dudley. That's about all I can think of for the current FO, withholding judgement on Morris(preferred Leonard and Faried) and Marshall(players I liked were already gone).

 

[Cheesebeef]

After 2011-2012? No. After 2010-2011? Perhaps.

then I think you're just as misguided about how to put a basketball team as I do the Suns. shocking i know.

 

[Chaplin]

i've said MULTIPLE times they have and give credit where credit's due and have eaten crow when i was wrong. nash was the right move back in 2004 and I gladly ate crow on that. Raja was the right move and i loved it at the time. drafting dragic was a great move. getting Grant Hill was a good move. Firing DA was the right move. Dudley's contract was the right move.

and i said all these... ad naseum Chap.

sadly, the terrible moves have outweighed the good ones over the Sarver's tenure.

Sorry, that was again more tongue in cheek than anything. Used to Phrazbit not finding one redeeming quality in anything having to do with the Suns. I'm pretty sure he thinks the Gorilla is the worst freaking mascot in pro sports.

 

[Chaplin]

then I think you're just as misguided about how to put a basketball team as I do the Suns. shocking i know.

Wow was that really called for?? What did I do to you (today) to make you put THAT attack in there?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Wow was that really called for?? What did I do to you (today) to make you put THAT attack in there?

it's my honest opinion dude. it's not a slam. I just disagree with your line of thinking and think it matches the Suns. How else am I supposed to say I think you're wrong.

edit:
oh, good god... that was an attack? i said you were misguided. Basically that means i think you're wrong. I'm not starting this with you again.

 

[Chaplin]

Signing 1 year deals last offseason, Correcting that horrible Hedo trade and somehow getting Gortat and re-signing Dudley. That's about all I can think of for the current FO, withholding judgement on Morris(preferred Leonard and Faried) and Marshall(players I liked were already gone).

Signing all those 1 year deals did nothing. If you ask Phrazbit and others, they were a waste of time and money since we ended up using the money saved from doing those deals on horrible contracts on players that shouldn't be in the NBA.

I like the Marshall pick, but not the Morris pick (so far). Dudley is ok, but I've never been as enamoured with him as everyone else seems to be. The Hedo fix was a slam dunk, so we agree there.

 

[Phrazbit]

So your saying you should pay Anderson since he had one above average season, but not Frye?

NO! I dont like Anderson's contract! I think I made that pretty clear. But Anderson deserves bigger contract than Frye because he is significantly better.

Frye is a bench player, any team with a decent PF would only play him like 20 minutes a game, tops. You dont toss guys like that 5 year deals, I dont care what version of the CBA was out. Its a stupid signing.

We're stuck with a bench quality player for 3 more years. And with Nash gone I fully expect Frye to get even worse. How anyone can think its a good signing nuts, its not even half over and the guy has devolved into a scrub.

 

[Chaplin]

it's my honest opinion dude. it's not a slam. I just disagree with your line of thinking and think it matches the Suns. How else am I supposed to say I think you're wrong.

edit:
oh, good god... that was an attack? i said you were misguided. Basically that means i think you're wrong. I'm not starting this with you again.

Wrong how, that I think it's possible that the contract he signed was reasonable? He had a good year in 2010-2011 and we saw it on the court with his increase in rebounds and defensive skills. Then it all went downhill when he dislocated his shoulder.

Geez, I didn't say it was a slam dunk great contract, I simply said that based on his previous year's performance, which was his best, 6 million per isn't that big of a stretch.

 

[SweetD]

and good work putting words into someone's mouth here.

let me ask you this SweetD, have the Suns ever done ANYTHING wrong as far as your concerned?

Yes ~ I am sure there are more, just can't come up with them off the top of my head

Bad Signing
Joe Barry Carrol, Luke Longley, John "Hot Rod" Willimas, Marion, Marcus Banks, Hedo Turkagulu, Josh Childress, Hakim Warrick

Bad Trades
Charles Barkley (Houstan), Thunder Dan (Clevleand), Marion (Shaq), Nash (Lakers)- Just would have prefered diffent team

 

[Phrazbit]

Signing all those 1 year deals did nothing. If you ask Phrazbit and others, they were a waste of time and money since we ended up using the money saved from doing those deals on horrible contracts on players that shouldn't be in the NBA.

I like the Marshall pick, but not the Morris pick (so far). Dudley is ok, but I've never been as enamoured with him as everyone else seems to be. The Hedo fix was a slam dunk, so we agree there.

Signing one year deals last year was a good idea. Dont commit yourself long term while you're in the middle of a major rebuild. Whats stupid is they quickly derailed from that course and appear to have no plan at all for how to construct the roster.

 

[SunsTzu]

Signing all those 1 year deals did nothing. If you ask Phrazbit and others, they were a waste of time and money since we ended up using the money saved from doing those deals on horrible contracts on players that shouldn't be in the NBA.

I like the Marshall pick, but not the Morris pick (so far). Dudley is ok, but I've never been as enamoured with him as everyone else seems to be. The Hedo fix was a slam dunk, so we agree there.

I took the signing of the 1 year deals at face value. Even if the Suns royally screw up the cap space it doesn't deter the fact that preserving cap space was the right move.

 

[Phrazbit]

Sorry, that was again more tongue in cheek than anything. Used to Phrazbit not finding one redeeming quality in anything having to do with the Suns. I'm pretty sure he thinks the Gorilla is the worst freaking mascot in pro sports.

The Suns are my most beloved sports team by far. But IMO its impossible to not be extremely disillusioned by the direction this franchise has been going.

If you want I will lay out a list of all the moves I can recall during the last several years and what I thought of them. There are some I liked a lot, but lately... yes, its been mostly disappointment.

 

[Phrazbit]

Yes ~ I am sure there are more, just can't come up with them off the top of my head

Bad Signing
Joe Barry Carrol, Luke Longley, John "Hot Rod" Willimas, Marion, Marcus Banks, Hedo Turkagulu, Josh Childress, Hakim Warrick

Bad Trades
Charles Barkley (Houstan), Thunder Dan (Clevleand), Marion (Shaq), Nash (Lakers)- Just would have prefered diffent team

Marion was a bad signing?!

 

[Chaplin]

Signing one year deals last year was a good idea. Dont commit yourself long term while you're in the middle of a major rebuild. Whats stupid is they quickly derailed from that course and appear to have no plan at all for how to construct the roster.

Let's look at the plan:

Losing their starting point guard, so what do they do:
Draft Marshall and sign Dragic

Regardless of the quality, an attempt to replace Nash and move forward with much younger players happened.

Draft Morris last season as another big man--good strategy in theory, unfortunately Morris just isn't that good, but that's the chance you take in the draft. PF is easily our worst position if Gordon signs, my guess is if Gordon is signed, it will be our next focus. If Gordon is matched, then it will still remain our 2nd worry.

Get rid of Hedo's horrible contract: Great job doing that, but what makes it a real slam dunk is getting Gortat in return--a clear-cut starting center. Robin Lopez, while not very good, is pretty much your standard average backup center--compared to other backup centers, that is (which there are not many).

Our starter at Small Forward was a 40-year-old man whose body began to break down. So what do we do? Sign a much younger small forward. Argue all you want about the money, but that was a concerted effort to find a starting SF. He's young and if he's as bad as you think, then it means a better pick next summer.

As for shooting guard, I'm still unclear why the Suns decided to sign Eric Gordon considering the media has consistently said that he would be matched. But you can't blame the Suns for going for the 2nd best free agent of this summer. Is Gordon worth the max? Debatable, that's for sure, but he's certainly a pretty good player and starting SG is a need.

There is most definitely a plan here. The only issue is about the quality of players--which will vary depending on who you talk to.

 

[Phrazbit]

Let's look at the plan:

Losing their starting point guard, so what do they do:
Draft Marshall and sign Dragic

Regardless of the quality, an attempt to replace Nash and move forward with much younger players happened.

Draft Morris last season as another big man--good strategy in theory, unfortunately Morris just isn't that good, but that's the chance you take in the draft. PF is easily our worst position if Gordon signs, my guess is if Gordon is signed, it will be our next focus. If Gordon is matched, then it will still remain our 2nd worry.

Get rid of Hedo's horrible contract: Great job doing that, but what makes it a real slam dunk is getting Gortat in return--a clear-cut starting center. Robin Lopez, while not very good, is pretty much your standard average backup center--compared to other backup centers, that is (which there are not many).

Our starter at Small Forward was a 40-year-old man whose body began to break down. So what do we do? Sign a much younger small forward. Argue all you want about the money, but that was a concerted effort to find a starting SF. He's young and if he's as bad as you think, then it means a better pick next summer.

As for shooting guard, I'm still unclear why the Suns decided to sign Eric Gordon considering the media has consistently said that he would be matched. But you can't blame the Suns for going for the 2nd best free agent of this summer. Is Gordon worth the max? Debatable, that's for sure, but he's certainly a pretty good player and starting SG is a need.

There is most definitely a plan here. The only issue is about the quality of players--which will vary depending on who you talk to.

I disagree. I dont see the plan, I see them spending money but I dont see what the end game is here. I guess there might be a plan if their goal is to perpetually finish between 7th and 12th in the conference. But even the most rosey out-looked fan would have a hard time seeing what they're constructing (even with Gordon) as better than a fringe playoff squad.

Even you say that the issue is the quality of players... So they're spending a lot of money on players of questionable talent... thats the plan? I dont buy it.

 

[SweetD]

I disagree. I dont see the plan, I see them spending money but I dont see what the end game is here. I guess there might be a plan if their goal is to perpetually finish between 7th and 12th in the conference. But even the most rosey out-looked fan would have a hard time seeing what they're constructing (even with Gordon) as better than a fringe playoff squad.

Even you say that the issue is the quality of players... So they're spending a lot of money on players of questionable talent... thats the plan? I dont buy it.

Please provide us with your plan for this offseason.

 

[elindholm]

It's pointless to say that someone is "overpaid" without articulating what the standards are. If every third-tier big man in the league is "overpaid," that doesn't tell us anything, because if you want a third-tier big man for some reason, then that's what you'll end up paying. Players on rookie contracts and veterans playing for the minimum distort the scale, but 90% of the NBA's "middle-aged" guys are on contracts that seem too high, even once one moves past the rhetoric of how nonsensical it is to make athletes the richest members of society.

 

[Phrazbit]

Please provide us with your plan for this offseason.

During the draft they should have put everyone on the team on the trading block. We should be loading up on picks and young players. Keep the team flexible so we can be facilitators in trades when teams are desperate for to clear space at the expense of picks.

If Iman Shumpert was actually on the table from the Knicks and Nash was willing to go there (even if he preferred LA) I would have sent him to New York.

Dont sign long term deals that is by far the most important part. There is no point in compiling expensive role players when there is nothing for them to play off of.

It would be a bad team next year, but I'd rather have a 20 win team with a ton of draft picks, cap space and youth, than a 30-35 win team with no direction and little prospect of improvement.

Also I'd extend Gentry. He is good at getting use of his entire roster and we need a coach who can showcase players. Also, he does not deserve to be made the fall guy for the last several years of roster stupidity.

 

[SweetD]

During the draft they should have put everyone on the team on the trading block. We should be loading up on picks and young players. Keep the team flexible so we can be facilitators in trades when teams are desperate for to clear space at the expense of picks.

If Iman Shumpert was actually on the table from the Knicks and Nash was willing to go there (even if he preferred LA) I would have sent him to New York.

Dont sign long term deals that is by far the most important part. There is no point in compiling expensive role players when there is nothing for them to play off of.

It would be a bad team next year, but I'd rather have a 20 win team with a ton of draft picks, cap space and youth, than a 30-35 win team with no direction and little prospect of improvement.

Also I'd extend Gentry. He is good at getting use of his entire roster and we need a coach who can showcase players. Also, he does not deserve to be made the fall guy for the last several years of roster stupidity.

1 - Nash was a URFA so that is moot/In 1/2 a year Shumpert is someone you should build around?
2 - Why would anyone want to come play for a team that will not give a long term deal? (What's a long term deal?)
3 - What are you going to do about lost revenue and loss of advertising partners?
4- Your not going to get anyone to sign with a team, that is not competative unless you are going to overpay, but since that is out of the question. I guess we will just keep drafting players.
5- Why would Gentry want to coach a team of rookies? How will that help him get his next contract?