Why I Give the Cardinals' Draft an A

[Garthshort]

Mitch, there is one pick that I'm most happy with, and one that I'm most worried about. And they are the same guy. Bobby Massie. I was estatic that he fell to us in the fourth round and couldn't believe our luck. But with more time to think about it, I'm concerned that there is a reason he fell to the fourth, when I thought he'd go late first to early second. Am I just being paranoid, or just being a Cards' fan?

 

[Duckjake]

Very wordy way of my saying Horton is more comfortable with the LBer unit then he was with the DB unit.

Or it could be Horton was more comfortable with the DBs that were available in the draft when the Cards selected than the LBs.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Mitch,-----I give us an A also, not so much because we got the best players coming out of college this year, but because we got the (best players for us) this year. Steve Keim deserves a huge 'attaboy' in my opinion for this draft, and has changed the way we draft since he became director of player personnel. His marks are all over this draft.

1. He got us Floyd, (a 6'4" Anquan Boldin), to take pressure off Fitz and bring toughness and strength to the other side of the field from Fitz.

2. He got us Fleming, a corner with some length who can tackle, (yet can also play safety, with loose hips to turn an cover deep), all in the same package. Horton will absolutely be thrilled with what he can do with this guy.

3. With the Massie pick, we got the best right tackle in the draft, (and we got him in the 4th round by staying true to our board and letting the draft come to us. He might start immedieatly, but if he doesn't he surely will before the season is over. He will more than likely become a fixture there for several years.

4. While the rest are slated to be either backups or special teamers, they are great fits for OUR TEAM, and will provide good depth, while learning to take over as starters in the future.

Keim has changed the WAY we draft, you could see it in last year's draft, and again in this one. He has determined which players best fit our scheme, and selected shown the staff how we are best served if we follow his lead. All our selected O-linemen can pass block. All our defensive backs taken can cover, yet tackle. This is the best draft we have had since coming to AZ in my opinion.

It starts with the "shopping list" from the Head Coach, Coordinators and position coaches. IMO

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Mitch, there is one pick that I'm most happy with, and one that I'm most worried about. And they are the same guy. Bobby Massie. I was estatic that he fell to us in the fourth round and couldn't believe our luck. But with more time to think about it, I'm concerned that there is a reason he fell to the fourth, when I thought he'd go late first to early second. Am I just being paranoid, or just being a Cards' fan?

Left to be seen, but don't you think the League would like a second crack at drafting Sam Acho?

 

[Totally_Red]

Nice writeup.

Regarding the Lindley pick, Mike Mayock was far less complimentary than Jaws and Polian. He said Lindley did not handle pressure well at all, and was very inaccurate as his 55% completion percentage would indicate. I've heard more than one analyst say accuracy is far more important than arm strength. The inaccuracy and folding under pressure are probably why he was available in the 6th round.

It was a good pick but it's way too early to project him even making the 53-man roster let alone leading the Cardinals to the Promised Land IMO.

 

[Catfish]

It starts with the "shopping list" from the Head Coach, Coordinators and position coaches. IMO

You're right of course, (or at least that is the way it is SUPPOSED to be). Until last year, when Keim was promoted to director of player personnel, our position coaches were asking for players who could not do what we needed at the positions we played them in. That is why all the hate is on this board for Levi Brown. We play the pass two thirds of the time, yet he is a road grading mauler who run blocks. He had a heck of a time learning to pass block the speed rushers. The same goes for our corner backs. For a long time our position coaches went for cover corners who couldn't tackle, then we played them off the line of scrimmage in zone. It wasn't working.

Keim was promoted, and we brought in Horton to design the 'D'. Keim got him the kind of players he could use in his scheme, and added to that again this year. Every O-lineman we drafted this year can pass block. That more fits what we do than what the position coaches were asking for in years prior. This draft fits what we do. It will be a very successful one in my opinion. Only two major changes occurred in our FO and Staff before this began to happen. Steve Keim was promoted to director of player personnel, (which means he has one hell of a lot to say about what type of player we select), and Ray Horton was hired as 'D' coordinator. Since those two moves, we are drafting a different kind of player. This will work in my opinion.

 

[RonF]

Mitch- I'm okay with the Lindley pick. At that point in the draft, the best you can typically hope for is a special teamer, so what not take a Tom Brady-shot-in-the-dark. However, I have a question. In all the footage I saw of this guy, I did not once see him throw a spiral. Has anybody seen him throw one?[/quote]

It appears Kent has:

Per Kent Somers: Ryan Lindley started 49 consecutive games at quarterback for San Diego State. He's 6-feet-3-inches and 232 pounds, and he can make a football spin as fast as a centrifuge.

Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/sports/car...-nfl-draft-san-diego-state.html#ixzz1td4yIEEV
​

 

[Russ Smith]

Left to be seen, but don't you think the League would like a second crack at drafting Sam Acho?

Absolutely but in the case of Acho I think it was NFL people weren't entirely sure what he was an undersized pass rushing DE or a LB. Because we're a 3-4 team we were fortunate, most of the teams interested in Acho were 3-4 teams, he was considered too short and small to play DE and not quick enough to play OLB in a 4-3 but in a 3-4, he fit in just fine and had a terrific year. Acho was also a terrific kid by all accounts

Massie is entirely different everyone knows he's an OT, the questions on him were apparently off field, people said he was immature and didn't interview well and was not a consistent worker is what people said.

massie may make it he certainly looks the part and has the measurables. With Acho it was what is he, with massie it's does he want it.

 

[LarryStalling]

Absolutely but in the case of Acho I think it was NFL people weren't entirely sure what he was an undersized pass rushing DE or a LB. Because we're a 3-4 team we were fortunate, most of the teams interested in Acho were 3-4 teams, he was considered too short and small to play DE and not quick enough to play OLB in a 4-3 but in a 3-4, he fit in just fine and had a terrific year. Acho was also a terrific kid by all accounts

Massie is entirely different everyone knows he's an OT, the questions on him were apparently off field, people said he was immature and didn't interview well and was not a consistent worker is what people said.

massie may make it he certainly looks the part and has the measurables. With Acho it was what is he, with massie it's does he want it.

I heard a Massie interview and I will concur with your sentiment about him being a poor interview.

Additionally, another factor that I believe led to his slide is the fact that he has never displayed any versatility in his play on the offensive line. It is either rt or ?. In today's NFL, coaches like the players to be flexible in their abiblity to play different positions. Massie has not shown that to any degree.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think you are seeing the benefit of having organizational stability. We are figuring out what we are looking for in a player and making smart decisions in adding those types of players IN THE DRAFT. FA is a whole other issue we need to address.

 

[az jam]

I think you are seeing the benefit of having organizational stability. We are figuring out what we are looking for in a player and making smart decisions in adding those types of players IN THE DRAFT. FA is a whole other issue we need to address.

An excellent point. That is the cornerstone for the best teams. Revolving head coaches never helps an organization.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

You're right of course, (or at least that is the way it is SUPPOSED to be). Until last year, when Keim was promoted to director of player personnel, our position coaches were asking for players who could not do what we needed at the positions we played them in. That is why all the hate is on this board for Levi Brown. We play the pass two thirds of the time, yet he is a road grading mauler who run blocks. He had a heck of a time learning to pass block the speed rushers. The same goes for our corner backs. For a long time our position coaches went for cover corners who couldn't tackle, then we played them off the line of scrimmage in zone. It wasn't working.

Keim was promoted, and we brought in Horton to design the 'D'. Keim got him the kind of players he could use in his scheme, and added to that again this year. Every O-lineman we drafted this year can pass block. That more fits what we do than what the position coaches were asking for in years prior. This draft fits what we do. It will be a very successful one in my opinion. Only two major changes occurred in our FO and Staff before this began to happen. Steve Keim was promoted to director of player personnel, (which means he has one hell of a lot to say about what type of player we select), and Ray Horton was hired as 'D' coordinator. Since those two moves, we are drafting a different kind of player. This will work in my opinion.

He has a lot to say about the actual player selected; not the "type". The type of player needed to fit the system design falls to the coaches. He didn't tell Whiz, Grimm or Horton what they needed; they told him. He in turn told them that player "X" was the best fit for their wants and needs.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Absolutely but in the case of Acho I think it was NFL people weren't entirely sure what he was an undersized pass rushing DE or a LB. Because we're a 3-4 team we were fortunate, most of the teams interested in Acho were 3-4 teams, he was considered too short and small to play DE and not quick enough to play OLB in a 4-3 but in a 3-4, he fit in just fine and had a terrific year. Acho was also a terrific kid by all accounts

Massie is entirely different everyone knows he's an OT, the questions on him were apparently off field, people said he was immature and didn't interview well and was not a consistent worker is what people said.

massie may make it he certainly looks the part and has the measurables. With Acho it was what is he, with massie it's does he want it.

Another factor with Massie is that it's generally accepted that he's strictly a right tackle. This lack of versatility, so to speak, would also have lowered him on some boards.

 

[Russ Smith]

Another factor with Massie is that it's generally accepted that he's strictly a right tackle. This lack of versatility, so to speak, would also have lowered him on some boards.

Yep

 

[WildBB]

They got the probably best WR in the draft, 3 offensive lineman, 2 cornerbacks and a quarterback and did not reach.

All I need to know.

 

[Doc Cardinal]

Another factor with Massie is that it's generally accepted that he's strictly a right tackle. This lack of versatility, so to speak, would also have lowered him on some boards.

I think the biggest factor for Massie is that he's pi$$ed because so many people are dissing him.

He's gonna put the hurt on some people this year.

 

[DoTheDew]

6. Ryan Lindley, QB, San Diego St. What impressed me so much about this pick was having watched the SDSU tapes from last year to see what we had in WR DeMarco Sampson, I came away thinking man this Lindley kid is good. Any time you have a QB who can feed two WRs for over 1,000 yards in a season as Lindley did with Vincent Brown and DeMarco Sampson, you have quite a prospect on your hands.

I hadn't even realized that Lindley was Sampson's QB. You have to wonder if Sampson was talking up Lindley to the coaches and FO, further increasing the chances of drafting him.

 

[pinetopred]

I liked some of the draft this year especially 3-7 could have done without the Lindley pick thou, with a young QB on the roster that needs reps I think we drafted a camp arm/ pratice squad player could be wrong but i don't see him beating out Bartell for the 3rd spot this year. Still don't love the Floyd pick, he is a fine player but just didn't see the value at the WR position in the 1st round this year, I think both him and Blackmon got overvalued due to the lack of a front line guy so they both were built up in peoples minds, I think the same thing happened with CB this year Claiborne was a true top 10 talent, but there wasn't another so Gilmore got drafted alot higher then his talent because it is a position that teams covet much like WR. The lack of drafting front seven help also was a big concern for me, we are supper thin everywhere on the front seven we have quailty front line guys but I would have liked to see them bring in more depth especially OLB or DE, overall I think this was a B- draft for us we drafted our board and tried to stay true to BPA.

 

[52brandon]

Mitch, there is one pick that I'm most happy with, and one that I'm most worried about. And they are the same guy. Bobby Massie. I was estatic that he fell to us in the fourth round and couldn't believe our luck. But with more time to think about it, I'm concerned that there is a reason he fell to the fourth, when I thought he'd go late first to early second. Am I just being paranoid, or just being a Cards' fan?

Decastro was predicted to go top 10. He slid far himself. Doubt Pitts fans are worried about "why"

 

[Longcolts]

I liked some of the draft this year especially 3-7 could have done without the Lindley pick thou, with a young QB on the roster that needs reps I think we drafted a camp arm/ pratice squad player could be wrong but i don't see him beating out Bartell for the 3rd spot this year. Still don't love the Floyd pick, he is a fine player but just didn't see the value at the WR position in the 1st round this year, I think both him and Blackmon got overvalued due to the lack of a front line guy so they both were built up in peoples minds, I think the same thing happened with CB this year Claiborne was a true top 10 talent, but there wasn't another so Gilmore got drafted alot higher then his talent because it is a position that teams covet much like WR. The lack of drafting front seven help also was a big concern for me, we are supper thin everywhere on the front seven we have quailty front line guys but I would have liked to see them bring in more depth especially OLB or DE, overall I think this was a B- draft for us we drafted our board and tried to stay true to BPA.

Currently listed on our roster (I think some may UDFA's) are 3 OLB's. 5 ILB's, 5 LB (no designated inside or outside postions) 7 DL. I don't think we're as thin as you think except with the possible exception of OLB's.

 

[Garthshort]

I'd have zero concern about DeCastro. His stock fell because of the position he plays. Guards aren't as highly rated as tackles. I think he's a sure thing.

 

[pinetopred]

Currently listed on our roster (I think some may UDFA's) are 3 OLB's. 5 ILB's, 5 LB (no designated inside or outside postions) 7 DL. I don't think we're as thin as you think except with the possible exception of OLB's.

There is a huge difference between numbers and quality, you could list 20 guys at those postions and if the only good players are the starters we had better hope we stay healthy. I would almost be willing to bet next year we spend most of our draft picks on BPA's that miraculously play the front seven.

 

[WildBB]

I'd have zero concern about DeCastro. His stock fell because of the position he plays. Guards aren't as highly rated as tackles. I think he's a sure thing.

Close to , he has to get a year in the books first.

 

[Longcolts]

There is a huge difference between numbers and quality, you could list 20 guys at those postions and if the only good players are the starters we had better hope we stay healthy. I would almost be willing to bet next year we spend most of our draft picks on BPA's that miraculously play the front seven.

That wasn't the point. You made the statement that we are thin at the front 7 but as of this moment we aren't. Now I'll admit that you might be correct when it comes to what we look like come the regular season but until then no one really knows. What you consider to be quality might be entirely different than what the Cards and Horton see as quality. I'll wait until the final roster to make a determination whether I think we're thin. For some reason I don't think Horton believes we are. Not to mention that there are going to be some changes made before the regular season starts. We have no way of knowing what those changes might be yet.

 

[52brandon]

I'd have zero concern about DeCastro. His stock fell because of the position he plays. Guards aren't as highly rated as tackles. I think he's a sure thing.

DeCastro was VERY highly rated. Massie was rated high, but nowhere near that high. DeCastro fell far for himself, as did Massie. Yet there's no question about DeCastro and all of a sudden, plenty about Massie. If PITT took Massie, there would be none, just a "why didn't we get him?" for a question. Maybe it's the Cards curse, but it seems we can't be happy when a great player falls to us out of position and we have to question it, but I just don't get it... be happy, I am...