Why is Shawn Marion not in the Ring of Honor?

[GatorAZ]

To me there is room for Marion in the roh as it seems like it is more about fan favorites than pure greatness. If Thunder Dan is there than The Matrix should be as well. Get rid of kj if you need room he's turned out to be kind of a jerk.

Marion averaged 5 more PPG than in his Suns’ tenure than Majerle did. And that’s a ROH scoring guard. It shows what personality and fanfare mean in these instances.

 

[pokerface]

Marion was an all around very solid basketball player. Nothing about him was traditional...very unorthodox but effective. He was a stat stuffer and hussled unbelievable. He definitely should be in the ROH.

 

[Hoop Head]

It's tough to say who was more valuable, or more important, to the Suns success during the Nash years but the Suns made the playoffs while Amare missed the entire season, save 3 games, but they missed the playoffs in the first full season after trading Marion away.

I know coaching comes into play some as well with the year they missed the playoffs being the year they tried the Terry Porter experiment but that team sorely missed the little things that Marion did. Grant Hill did his best to fill in for Marion but that is when people really saw what Marion did. He wasn't a true star but he was the best role player in the league for 5-6 years and that got him a few All-Star nods, similar to how Draymond has been awarded for being the top role player the last few seasons recently.

Would I rather start a team with Amare or Marion? Amare, without much thought but if I had a title contender and was able to add either Marion or Amare? Marion, without much thought. They brought different things to the table and had very different skillsets.

Both belong in the ROH and I expect we'll see one of the two get in when things return to normal-ish and the renovations are done. It does make some sense to hold off on something like a ROH induction to coincide with the arena reopening and celebrating it's renovation. Of course the Corona Virus adds another level to that but from a marketing standpoint, holding off the last year or two makes sense because they were trying to get that renovation approved. Having a sellout for that induction makes it more apparent fans will come when something worth watching is taking place but Sarver sold things as fans didn't want to come out because the arena sucked.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns selected Marion with the 9th pick in the 1999 draft so he is our own.

Marion played 8+ seasons with the Suns, was a four time NBA All-Star and received a number of other accolades.

He even made the All-Star team before Steve Nash arrived.

He was an all around player. For example, in 2005–06, Marion started 81 games, averaged 21.8 points, 11.8 rebounds, 1.98 steals, 1.8 assists, 1.69 blocks.

Give the man his due. He belongs in the Suns Ring of Honor.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I know this isn't really the argument but IMO neither Marion nor Stat deserve to be in the HOF but Marion's stats make him borderline. Both should easily be in the Suns ROH. Amare though was the more impactful player of the two and would have made for a solid HOF argument if he'd stayed healthy.

 

[Hoop Head]

I know this isn't really the argument but IMO neither Marion nor Stat deserve to be in the HOF but Marion's stats make him borderline. Both should easily be in the Suns ROH. Amare though was the more impactful player of the two and would have made for a solid HOF argument if he'd stayed healthy.

I'd agree with that but I'd also add that if Marion wasn't traded then he might have had a HOF career here in Phoenix. His numbers dipped after he left and although he was still a really good starter, he never reached the level he did as a Sun. If you add him to that 2009-10 team of overachievers then I think they get past the Lakers in the WCF. A title where he was a top 3 player would make him a more likely HOF'er.

 

[Chaplin]

My 2 cents. Marion should be graded on what he could do and that's a lot... offensively, defensively and rebounding.

I love Marion, but why can't he also be graded on what he COULDN'T do? Like carry a team, make them better, be clutch in playoff situations... Hell, that's how we grade Carmelo Anthony. Just makes us look like hypocrites.

 

[GatorAZ]

I love Marion, but why can't he also be graded on what he COULDN'T do? Like carry a team, make them better, be clutch in playoff situations... Hell, that's how we grade Carmelo Anthony. Just makes us look like hypocrites.

I think the Melo hate goes overboard but I don’t understand the comparison. Melo was the #3 pick and had superstar expectations. Nobody saw Marion as a superstar or best player on the Suns.

 

[Chaplin]

I think the Melo hate goes overboard but I don’t understand the comparison. Melo was the #3 pick and had superstar expectations. Nobody saw Marion as a superstar or best player on the Suns.

The point is, we spend more time criticizing what Carmelo can't do rather than what he can do. I don't care about draft position. That is ancient history. Can you imagine the HOF committee saying, "Let's put Carmelo Anthony in the Hall of Fame. He was a great offensive player!" And nobody says, "Well, what about..."? I know the NBA is a popularity contest, but I don't think even Adam Silver would entertain putting Carmelo in the Hall without taking into consideration everything he didn't do well. Why should our standards be different?

Of course, you're making the argument for everyone when you say, "Nobody saw Marion as a superstar or best player on the Suns." And there's a reason for that.

 

[cwamjn]

Maybe I have recently bias but I don't get the Marion wasn't clutch in the playoffs. They just showed game six of the 2005 playoffs against, and I forgot how huge he came through in that game. Also some pretty good defense against 41.

 

[GatorAZ]

The point is, we spend more time criticizing what Carmelo can't do rather than what he can do. I don't care about draft position. That is ancient history. Can you imagine the HOF committee saying, "Let's put Carmelo Anthony in the Hall of Fame. He was a great offensive player!" And nobody says, "Well, what about..."? I know the NBA is a popularity contest, but I don't think even Adam Silver would entertain putting Carmelo in the Hall without taking into consideration everything he didn't do well. Why should our standards be different?

Of course, you're making the argument for everyone when you say, "Nobody saw Marion as a superstar or best player on the Suns." And there's a reason for that.

So he belongs in the ROH or not?

 

[Mainstreet]

I love Marion, but why can't he also be graded on what he COULDN'T do? Like carry a team, make them better, be clutch in playoff situations... Hell, that's how we grade Carmelo Anthony. Just makes us look like hypocrites.

That's fair but sometimes I think the Marion critics (especially while he played here) put more blame on him than he deserved. Some of that was because he wasn't tall enough to guard some of the taller power forwards of the day like Dirk. They could shoot over the top of him or provide a mismatch inside. Also I think it was easier to blame any of the Suns shortcomings on Marion than Amare or Nash.

 

[Mainstreet]

And by the way, who was given the task of guarding Dirk Nowitzki and Tim Duncan... Shawn Marion.

 

[GatorAZ]

And by the way, who was given the task of guarding Dirk Nowitzki and Tim Duncan... Shawn Marion.

And he hated it but they had to keep Amare fresh offensively. Otherwise he’d be worn out or in foul trouble. I’ll be the first to admit Marion was underwhelming in the playoffs. The Spurs most notably could phase him out of what he did best but he did have some good series. Specifically the Clippers series in 06’.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That's fair but sometimes I think the Marion critics (especially while he played here) put more blame on him than he deserved. Some of that was because he wasn't tall enough to guard some of the taller power forwards of the day like Dirk. They could shoot over the top of him or provide a mismatch inside. Also I think it was easier to blame any of the Suns shortcomings on Marion than Amare or Nash.

no. it was because he curled up in the fetal position every time we played San Antonio. and he used to run his mouth about how great he was and not getting respect. that's why he got blame. he brought a lot of it on himself. he was a 20 million dollar player who couldn't get his own shot, couldn't take adverting of Tony Parker guarding him on D and regularly got torched by every one he guarded on SA.

 

[Mainstreet]

And he hated it but they had to keep Amare fresh offensively. Otherwise he’d be worn out or in foul trouble. I’ll be the first to admit Marion was underwhelming in the playoffs. The Spurs most notably could phase him out of what he did best but he did have some good series. Specifically the Clippers series in 06’.

Marion was matched up against two of the best players of all time when he played defense. Even if Amare was fresh, he couldn't guard them. It's easy to see why Marion received more than his fair share of blame.

 

[Phrazbit]

Marion made one of the great all time clutch plays in Suns history against the Lakers in 2006.

 

[Yuma]

Yes ROH is my vote.

 

[Chaplin]

Marion made one of the great all time clutch plays in Suns history against the Lakers in 2006.

That doesn’t make up for all the times he folded on the playoffs. Which was a lot.

Not to mention, the “power” he wielded that prevented us from getting us KG.

 

[Chaplin]

So he belongs in the ROH or not?

I wouldn’t have a big problem with it, but I was obviously responding to Mainstreet who said that we should base his impact on what he did well and not consider what he didn’t do well.

 

[Mainstreet]

I wouldn’t have a big problem with it, but I was obviously responding to Mainstreet who said that we should base his impact on what he did well and not consider what he didn’t do well.

If you are going to paraphrase, try getting it right.

My 2 cents. Marion should be graded on what he could do and that's a lot... offensively, defensively and rebounding.

 

[Chaplin]

If you are going to paraphrase, try getting it right.

How am I not wrong? You didn't mention his weaknesses once, or are you claiming that you not using the word "only" precludes you of any criticism?

 

[hcsilla]

There is no way that Stoudemire deserves more credit during his Suns' tenure than Shawn Marion.

Marion was a much more versatile and servicable player. Amare was such a dominant force in the paint that it was easy to forget his painful defensive shortcomings.

He was so dominant that even Tim Duncan and the Spurs defense had issues with keeping him under control, the problem was Duncan and the Spurs offense tricked him completely on the other side of the court.

 

[Phrazbit]

There is no way that Stoudemire deserves more credit during his Suns' tenure than Shawn Marion.

Marion was a much more versatile and servicable player. Amare was such a dominant force in the paint that it was easy to forget his painful defensive shortcomings.

He was so dominant that even Tim Duncan and the Spurs defense had issues with keeping him under control, the problem was Duncan and the Spurs offense tricked him completely on the other side of the court.

I agree completely.

Marion and Amare should both be in the ring of honor, but a "Marion vs Amare on the Suns" conversation where Amare is the clearly superior player is beyond me. Amare's playoff series in 2005 vs San Antonio is commendable, he lit up the stat sheet in a series we lost 4 games to 1. Amare was constantly put in positions to maximize his effectiveness on offense and hide him on defense. Meanwhile, Marion was constantly given the hardest task on defense and on offense did an amazing job of feasting on scraps. I am not trying to beliddle Amare here but... come on, people ripping Marion for his defensive prowess in an Amare vs Marion conversation?! That is astounding. Amare was trash on defense, he wavered between "disinterested" and "clueless". Meanwhile Marion was covering an all-NBA power forward one night and an elite PG the next.

I am not saying Amare sucked, he is one of the greatest interior scorers of his generation, but that was the only area he excelled at and he was putrid in some other aspects of the game. Meanwhile, Marion was somewhere between above average to elite at every aspect of his position. He just wasn't elite in the ways that make for highlight reels.

If I was to add one of the 2, in their prime, right now to the current Suns, it would be Marion without a second thought. A swiss army knife of a player who can fit on any roster and thrive, covering warts across a roster. Amare had the ability to dominate on the interior... he also very rarely provided a positive impact in any other aspect.

 

[cwamjn]

There is no way that Stoudemire deserves more credit during his Suns' tenure than Shawn Marion.

Thirded.