Why is the Knight-White trade a mistake?

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
Lampe is 18 years old or so and 6'11-7' how can you give him a position?

The Suns will want to devellop him into a center and they talk about him as a F/C.

So Lampe is a center.
 

SweetD

Next Up
Supporting Member
Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Jan 15, 2003
Posts
9,865
Reaction score
173
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Or he could be the SF that the Knicks wanted him to be :)
 

Goldfield

Formally known as BEERZ
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Posts
10,519
Reaction score
2,368
Location
ASFN
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knight-White trade a

Originally posted by hcsilla
And that's why Colangelo said that one of the reasons of the Outlaw-trade was to clear PT for Cabarkapa at backup PF.


Lampe is a NATURAL POWER FORWARD.
.


You are very creative with your suggestions.
Probably you got the idea from watching games that Lampe is a C.

With the addition of McDyess & Harvey, Zarko will see MOST of his time at SF.

Lampe will not play PF on this team. He is a projected center, with the skillz of a PF.

If he gets any playing time on this team it will be at center. there is a log jam at the other front court spots.
 

Goldfield

Formally known as BEERZ
Joined
Sep 13, 2002
Posts
10,519
Reaction score
2,368
Location
ASFN
Anyway, I would love to continue with this pointless asswhooping, but I have to get to work :thumbup:


:jedi: :moon: :notworthy
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
Originally posted by SweetD
Or he could be the SF that the Knicks wanted him to be :)

If he doesn't play at Center, he will be able to not play at SF either. :D

Seriously, with Marion, Carbakapa, JJ, and Jacobsen all putting in mintues at SF; while Stoudemire, Dice, and Harvey at PF; Lampe would be lucky to get a chance to practice at forward let alone play.
 

hcsilla

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Posts
3,454
Reaction score
307
Location
Budapest,Hungary
Originally posted by schutd
Of course they do. I just did, you arrogant turd.

Maybe I'm wrong. Thanks for addressing it. Do so the first time, and without being a jerk, and Ill always concede. Not with some lame ass patronising responce like "They could and the answer would be no" with no backup as to WHY it would be no.
I have some "deja vu" feeling. We had a very similar "debate" some months ago and then you closed that we should leave alone each other.

Now (I assume forgetting your own advice) you started to respond to my posts.
But I didn't know that you don't really read the posts which you are replying to.

I said that Eisley is untradeable.
You responded that we could shop him to CHA with some future picks.
I said that they would reject that offer very quickly because (I think) Eisley's contract is that terrible.
I thought that was pretty clear after saying that Eisley is untradeable.
I don't understand how did that sound as a "lame ass patronizing" but if it did I apologize.

I was under the impression that the CBA had a loophole that if you lost a player to the expansion draft, the other team doesnt even have to have the player make the roster. They cut him and he becomes a UFA, and both teams do OK.
That's correct only if the player has an option or ETO.

"Some players may become unrestricted free agents due to the invocation or non-invocation of an option or ETO (see question number 48 ). The league uses their status on the day of the expansion draft -- i.e., if a player has invoked his option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as a free agent. If a player has not invoked an option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as being under contract (so it is possible for Charlotte to select a player in the expansion draft who then invokes his option, becomes an unrestricted free agent, and signs elsewhere). "

Larry Coon's FAQ

Since there aren't options on Eisley's contract this summer that can't be his case.

You though are an arrogant SOB, who maybe doesnt have a great handle on the enlgish language and whose attitude might be misconstrued because of it. I dont know. But you DO regularly come off like a jerk. Here included.
Sorry for my terrible english command.

That's the 2nd time that you did feel that I have offended you and I did feel that you have offended me.
Maybe we are both too sensitive or my english command is not good enough for a normal conversation.
 

hcsilla

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Posts
3,454
Reaction score
307
Location
Budapest,Hungary
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knight-White trad

Originally posted by BEERZ
With the addition of McDyess & Harvey, Zarko will see MOST of his time at SF.

Lampe will not play PF on this team. He is a projected center, with the skillz of a PF.

If he gets any playing time on this team it will be at center. there is a log jam at the other front court spots.
But who cares this season?
It's over.
The more games we lose the better.

Next season without McDyess and Harvey the young players with quaranteed contracts will get the chnace to play on their natural positions.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,564
Reaction score
17,177
Location
Round Rock, TX
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knight-White

Originally posted by hcsilla
But who cares this season?
It's over.
The more games we lose the better.


I always care about the Suns. While I see the advantage of losing, I find it very difficult to wish for the Suns to lose. Call it the competitive spirit in me.
 

frdbtr

Registered
Joined
Jun 12, 2003
Posts
407
Reaction score
1
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knight-White trade a mistake?

Originally posted by hcsilla

BTW, I wouldn't call the Grizzlies size starved with Gasol (7') nad Wright (6'11") as their starting frontcourt.



There is a difference between Size and height. Shawn Bradly is 7'6" but gets pushed all over the place on the court because he is skinny. Size is a combination of Height and weight. Unfortunately Agility is sometimes lost with weight (unless you are Shaq)

Gasol is skinny at 7' so he is not a big player, only tall.
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knight-Wh

Originally posted by Chaplin
I always care about the Suns. While I see the advantage of losing, I find it very difficult to wish for the Suns to lose. Call it the competitive spirit in me.

I'm not convinced that there is anyone worth tanking the season to get this coming draft. I would rather the Suns start playing good basketball and establish some momentum for next season.
 

slinslin

Welcome to Amareca
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Posts
16,855
Reaction score
562
Location
Hannover - Germany
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knight-White

Originally posted by hcsilla

Next season without McDyess and Harvey the young players with quaranteed contracts will get the chnace to play on their natural positions.

Who says McDyess and Harvey will definately not be there next season?
At least Dice has a good chance to be here if he performs well.

Next season we will likely have at least 2 more first round picks and I would guess that one of them is a big guy plus we might sign a big guy so how will it be easier to find playing time then?

Why is Lampe's natural position forward? Are Okur and Miller naturally forwards??
 

schutd

ASFN Addict
Joined
Oct 15, 2002
Posts
6,258
Reaction score
2,217
Location
Charleston, SC
Originally posted by hcsilla
I have some "deja vu" feeling. We had a very similar "debate" some months ago and then you closed that we should leave alone each other.

Now (I assume forgetting your own advice) you started to respond to my posts.
But I didn't know that you don't really read the posts which you are replying to.

I said that Eisley is untradeable.
You responded that we could shop him to CHA with some future picks.
I said that they would reject that offer very quickly because (I think) Eisley's contract is that terrible.
I thought that was pretty clear after saying that Eisley is untradeable.
I don't understand how did that sound as a "lame ass patronizing" but if it did I apologize.


That's correct only if the player has an option or ETO.

"Some players may become unrestricted free agents due to the invocation or non-invocation of an option or ETO (see question number 48 ). The league uses their status on the day of the expansion draft -- i.e., if a player has invoked his option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as a free agent. If a player has not invoked an option or ETO by the day of the expansion draft, then he is treated as being under contract (so it is possible for Charlotte to select a player in the expansion draft who then invokes his option, becomes an unrestricted free agent, and signs elsewhere). "

Larry Coon's FAQ

Since there aren't options on Eisley's contract this summer that can't be his case.


Sorry for my terrible english command.

That's the 2nd time that you did feel that I have offended you and I did feel that you have offended me.
Maybe we are both too sensitive or my english command is not good enough for a normal conversation.

We're good. I fly off the handle, we miscommunicate, whatever. Ill take everything into consideration if I choose to repons to some of your points or you to mine. Youre right, I did put forth the notion that we should ignore each other. Id rather we be able to converse. So Ill try harder.

thanks for posting the clip from the CBA. Thats not what I was thinking about, and I dont even know what an ETO stands for. Im too intimidated by reading the Cap FAQ to even know where to start, but I swear I read something about what I was alluding to earlier. My thoughts were that it had nothing to do with whether or not the player invoked anything, but that the team could draft him on expansion draft day, and then simply cut him befoer the season started and he becomes a UFA. Damn. I wish I could find where I read this and why I am thinking it. But no one else is stepping up to agree with me, so Ill assume I was incorrect in my assumption until otherwise noted.

SOrry for the name calling. We're obviously just not communicating well. That can be fixed.
 

hcsilla

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Posts
3,454
Reaction score
307
Location
Budapest,Hungary
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knight-Wh

Originally posted by slinslin
Who says McDyess and Harvey will definately not be there next season?
At least Dice has a good chance to be here if he performs well.
You mean as the backup of Amare for mid-level amount?
I do think that is a terrible idea.

Next season we will likely have at least 2 more first round picks and I would guess that one of them is a big guy plus we might sign a big guy so how will it be easier to find playing time then?
Great point.
And possible re-signing of McDyess would help to find PT?

Are Okur and Miller naturally forwards??
They are, IMO.
They are just forced to play C and they do it well on regularly basis.


Why is Lampe's natural position forward?
Because his strenghts (quickness, sweet shhoting touch) are rather PF skills in my eyes while he seems to be weaker at post up play and toughness which are rather C skills.
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knigh

Originally posted by hcsilla

Because his strenghts (quickness, sweet shhoting touch) are rather PF skills in my eyes while he seems to be weaker at post up play and toughness which are rather C skills. [/B]

I would rather have him focus on gaining those center skills, than having him back up Amare, Harvey, and Dice. As it is, Voskuhl doesn't have low post skills and gets shoved around a lot, so using Lampe there would not change much. However, they think he may grow and fill out.
 

hcsilla

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Posts
3,454
Reaction score
307
Location
Budapest,Hungary
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the K

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I would rather have him focus on gaining those center skills,
OK, but that looks more difficult than to improve his natural skills.

than having him back up Amare, Harvey, and Dice.
But please that's the another point.
Suns do not need McDyess or Harvey if Lampe turns to a decent PF which right now seems to be more likely than the same at C.
If Lampe can play some C it's fine if he will become a true C it's even better but using him at PF looks more reasonable and cheap for me.

Then pick Harrison or Perovic with NYK's pick or with our own who are probably more of a natural C.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP
F-Dog

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knigh

Originally posted by hcsilla
Because his strenghts (quickness, sweet shhoting touch) are rather PF skills in my eyes while he seems to be weaker at post up play and toughness which are rather C skills.

There's no room at PF, and there's no room in the post. If Lampe is going to play for the Suns, he'll have to play center.

My question is, will he turn into full-sized center (I'm thinking of Nesterovic on the Spurs) who can shoot, or will he turn out to be another Peja Drobnjak? If the answer is Drobnjak, then he's not worth developing--the Suns would be better off moving him along while he's still a "lottery" pick in some people's eyes.



I will say that I really liked the way that Lampe handled himself at the draft last year.
 

hcsilla

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Posts
3,454
Reaction score
307
Location
Budapest,Hungary
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the K

Originally posted by F-Dog
[

My question is, will he turn into full-sized center (I'm thinking of Nesterovic on the Spurs) who can shoot,
[
That would be the ideal scenario but it's probably too nice to be true.

or will he turn out to be another Peja Drobnjak?
I don't know.
He is not a Drobnjak-type of player, IMO. He is more athletic than Drobnjak and maybe not that jumpshot-oriented.
Lampe has rather a LaFrentz-type of mobility, I guess.
 

hcsilla

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Posts
3,454
Reaction score
307
Location
Budapest,Hungary
Originally posted by schutd
We're good. I fly off the handle, we miscommunicate, whatever. Ill take everything into consideration if I choose to repons to some of your points or you to mine. Youre right, I did put forth the notion that we should ignore each other. Id rather we be able to converse. So Ill try harder.
Me too.

thanks for posting the clip from the CBA. Thats not what I was thinking about, and I dont even know what an ETO stands for. Im too intimidated by reading the Cap FAQ to even know where to start, but I swear I read something about what I was alluding to earlier. My thoughts were that it had nothing to do with whether or not the player invoked anything, but that the team could draft him on expansion draft day, and then simply cut him befoer the season started and he becomes a UFA. Damn. I wish I could find where I read this and why I am thinking it. But no one else is stepping up to agree with me, so Ill assume I was incorrect in my assumption until otherwise noted.
You may remember that rule:

"Restricted free agents (see question number 34) may be selected, but become unrestricted free agents upon selection (with the caveat that they cannot then re-sign with the team from which they came)."

SOrry for the name calling. We're obviously just not communicating well. That can be fixed. [/B]
That can.
 

George O'Brien

ASFN Icon
Joined
Nov 22, 2003
Posts
10,297
Reaction score
0
Location
Sun City
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the K

Originally posted by F-Dog
If the answer is Drobnjak, then he's not worth developing--the Suns would be better off moving him along while he's still a "lottery" pick in some people's eyes.

[/B]

The history of moving young players for veterans includes innumerable fiascos such as J. O'Neal for Dale Davis or Jalen Rose for Brad Miller. How about Kobe for Divac. The guys received were not bad players, but it was still a mistake to give up on young big men too early.

Lampe is not Trybanski. Lampe has the potential to be a really good player. (Also, he has second rounder's contract).
 
OP
OP
F-Dog

F-Dog

lurker
Joined
Aug 27, 2003
Posts
3,637
Reaction score
0
Location
Tucson
Lampe is not Trybanski. Lampe has the potential to be a really good player. (Also, he has second rounder's contract).

I believe Lampe's contract is worse than Barbosa's--he makes $1m/year for 3 years (the extra money was necessary to induce him to buy out his contract, and the extra year was to prevent him from becoming a RFA before the Knicks had his Bird rights).

Barbosa's contract is 3yr, $950k/yr, and it has a team option year, which makes it significantly better than Lampe's contract from a team standpoint.



Anyway, I agree that Lampe is a keeper if he's got true potential for stardom, but that was a matter of debate before the draft last year. Fortunately, the Suns do a great job scouting talent, and I'm sure they'll make the right decision. :)
 

hcsilla

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Posts
3,454
Reaction score
307
Location
Budapest,Hungary
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knight-White trade a mist

Originally posted by Chaplin
:confused:

That was paralell to your "Well, Big Jake and Bo Outlaw certainly didn't make this team "fantastic" either. If you think they did, then perhaps you need to watch games more." statement.

You have put a statement in my mouth which I never said and after you were helpful enough to give me a patronizing advice.
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,564
Reaction score
17,177
Location
Round Rock, TX
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knight-White trade a

Originally posted by hcsilla
That was paralell to your "Well, Big Jake and Bo Outlaw certainly didn't make this team "fantastic" either. If you think they did, then perhaps you need to watch games more." statement.

You have put a statement in my mouth which I never said and after you were helpful enough to give me a patronizing advice.

Takes one to know one, I guess.

Is that patronizing enough for you? :)

I don't understand why you have to depend on fantasy to prove a point--it never works.
 
Last edited:

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,501
Reaction score
964
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the Knigh

Originally posted by hcsilla

Because his strenghts (quickness, sweet shhoting touch) are rather PF skills in my eyes while he seems to be weaker at post up play and toughness which are rather C skills.

I remember seeing a little bit of footage of Lampe prior to the draft. If those snippets of the deal are any indication quickness is not one of its assets. Neither is athletic ability.

I was under the impression that his future with the Phoenix Suns is as a high post center.

Joe Mama
 

Chaplin

Better off silent
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
46,564
Reaction score
17,177
Location
Round Rock, TX
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is the K

Originally posted by Joe Mama

I was under the impression that his future with the Phoenix Suns is as a high post center.

Joe Mama

Then the real question then is how he compares to our current high post center.
 

Joe Mama

Moderator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
9,501
Reaction score
964
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Why is t

Originally posted by Chaplin
Then the real question then is how he compares to our current high post center.

You mean no one on the injured list?

Joe Mama
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
559,496
Posts
5,464,563
Members
6,337
Latest member
rattle
Top