Why saying Boldin should play out his original contract is crazy

[Russ Smith]

Sorry I figured I ought to put this in a new thread since there's not enough Boldin threads.

The single worst thing the Cards could do IMHO is force Quan to play out his original deal and then renegotiate it, here's why. Quan has 2 years left, 2005, and 2006. Even if we assume Quan is going to willingly negotiate a new deal during the 06 season to avoid being a UFA( a huge IF assuming we force him to play out the original deal), that means we're negotiating a big 2nd contract for him that gives him a big bonus and a higher cap value in 2006.

As I mentioned in another thread, due to the nature of the contract the Cards gave Fitzgerald, they virtually HAVE to renegotiate his deal before 2008 or they owe him 8.5 million in bonus in 08 and 16 in 09. The only way we don't owe him that is if he never makes the pro bowl, or fails to play in 35% of our offensive plays. I'm not even a huge Fitz believer and even I think he'll make at least one pro bowl during that time. and let's face it, if Fitz hasn't made a probowl in his first 4 years there's no way in hell I'm giving him an 8.5 million bonus before year 5.

Does anybody really think it's good sound financial practice to sign one star WR to a HUGE deal in 2006 knowing full well you're going to have to sign the other one to a new deal the very next year? Not as bad as them both being in the same year for sure but imagine the signing bonus cash we're laying out in consecutive years, and imagine how much the contract you give Boldin is going to impact the contract Fitzgerald wants the next year?

The reality is it IF the cards intend to keep Anquan for a long time, it's in their best interests to redo the deal now not later.

 

[clif]

But we all know that either the deal with be torn up and redone, or he will get an extension, or he will be traded. IMO this all happens this year one way or the other. I am sure the team realizes just what you have laid out.

The current system does not allow a team to have 2 players with huge cap numbers to play the same position on the same team.

 

[vinnymac]

fianally a good post on the boldin matter.

 

[Russ Smith]

But we all know that either the deal with be torn up and redone, or he will get an extension, or he will be traded. IMO this all happens this year one way or the other. I am sure the team realizes just what you have laid out.

The current system does not allow a team to have 2 players with huge cap numbers to play the same position on the same team.

Detroit is going to have 3 and get away with it. We CAN sign quan to a fair deal it just has to be done right. The point I was making is everyone saying he has 2 years on his contract he should honor it is failing to realize if we try to sign him then, it's cap suicide.

Now if those people want 2 years of Quan on the cheap and then he leaves as a UFA, I guess saying play out your contract makes sense, if they want Quan to be a Cardinal for longer than that, it's bass ackwards.

 

[clif]

Detroit is going to have 3 and get away with it. We CAN sign quan to a fair deal it just has to be done right. The point I was making is everyone saying he has 2 years on his contract he should honor it is failing to realize if we try to sign him then, it's cap suicide.

Now if those people want 2 years of Quan on the cheap and then he leaves as a UFA, I guess saying play out your contract makes sense, if they want Quan to be a Cardinal for longer than that, it's bass ackwards.

I know what you are saying. There really isn't an easy answer. At what point do we sacrifice the good of the team to satisfy an individual player. We all know that if Quan doesn't get this new deal then he will bolt when he hits the market. If we cave then we will be in cap hell. No one player is above the team IMO. I think we make a fair offer with alot of incentives and be done with it.

 

[joko4]

Russ,where do you think there's a FAIR deal going to come from when Q has Rosenpuke.
Q has checkmated himself.

 

[maddogkf]

I can see where you are going, but then what happens when Dockett, Dansby, Arrington & other non-1st rounders want their $$$ when they have great seasons?

 

[ajcardfan]

I can see where you are going, but then what happens when Dockett, Dansby, Arrington & other non-1st rounders want their $$$ when they have great seasons?

These are the types of problems I HOPE this team has in the future. It's a lot better than the typical problems we've had which is guys underperforming compared to their contract. Having guys outperform their contract and want more money should mean we're winners.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I can see where you are going, but then what happens when Dockett, Dansby, Arrington & other non-1st rounders want their $$$ when they have great seasons?

If they make the probowl and break all rookie records for their position then they probably would deserve a raise IMO.

 

[Slacker]

Why is this an issue at all? He had a GREAT rookie year and then he got hurt. He doesn't deserve anything until he proves he's not another David Boston. He needs to watch is size. Too big has proven bad in the NFL for receivers. One great year does not a great receiver make. Period.

 

[Chainthroer]

Should see if Boldin is the same in the first half of the this season, as he played as a rookie. Then, renegotiate his contract. In the meantime he should report and get prepared for the upcoming season with his new QB. He has a contract and is obligated to conform to the terms thereof!!

 

[Goldfield]

If they make the probowl and break all rookie records for their position then they probably would deserve a raise IMO.

Not if it is only for 1 season... Boldin needs to show he can stay healthy, you cant throw money at a guy that might have knee problems.

Boldin is not a one year wonder, but he had had 2 knee problems in a short amount of time. He has no leverage, he needs to shut up and play out his contract and the money stuff will take care of it self...

Now if he played this year and made the prowbowl again my opinion would change. But when your talking about that much money you have to be certian they are gunna produce more than once.

 

[MadCardDisease]

He had a GREAT rookie year and then he got hurt. He doesn't deserve anything until he proves he's not another David Boston. One great year does not a great receiver make. Period.

Did you even watch this guy play? Quan did what no other rookie WR in history accomplished and he did it on a team with no talent. I don't think it was luck that the ball just happened to stick to his hand over 100 times his rookie season. I don't believe it was luck that allowed him to consistantly beat double teams and still manage to get over 1300 yards.

Boldin is the anti-Boston. I don't even know how you compare the two.

 

[Russ Smith]

These are the types of problems I HOPE this team has in the future. It's a lot better than the typical problems we've had which is guys underperforming compared to their contract. Having guys outperform their contract and want more money should mean we're winners.

Right, that's really the way you have to look at it. Good teams have cap issues, and they typically solve them one of two ways. Screw up and lose key players, or figure out who their CORE guys are and keep them and let others go.

Philly and New England do this better than anybody else.

The Cards need to figure out if Quan is one of their core players or not and decide accordingly, Green said he was last year before he got hurt, I suspect he'd say he was now, but that decision has to be made. Philly lets guys go as they get older, so does New England.

The theory has always been if you have enough good players you can afford a few big salaries. It's hard to say New England is cutting guys to make room for Brady's salary, but had to jettison Ty Law in the process. If we think Boldin won't win enough games to be worth the salary he wants, we should trade him, if we think he will, we should keep him.

But telling him to play out his contract virtually guarantees he's gone in 2 years and if we think we're going to let him go in 2 years we probably have to consider if its better to trade him now for something in return, or is it better to get 2 years of an unhappy Quan and then let him go?

 

[MadCardDisease]

Right, that's really the way you have to look at it. Good teams have cap issues, and they typically solve them one of two ways. Screw up and lose key players, or figure out who their CORE guys are and keep them and let others go.

Philly and New England do this better than anybody else.

The Cards need to figure out if Quan is one of their core players or not and decide accordingly, Green said he was last year before he got hurt, I suspect he'd say he was now, but that decision has to be made. Philly lets guys go as they get older, so does New England.

The theory has always been if you have enough good players you can afford a few big salaries. It's hard to say New England is cutting guys to make room for Brady's salary, but had to jettison Ty Law in the process. If we think Boldin won't win enough games to be worth the salary he wants, we should trade him, if we think he will, we should keep him.

But telling him to play out his contract virtually guarantees he's gone in 2 years and if we think we're going to let him go in 2 years we probably have to consider if its better to trade him now for something in return, or is it better to get 2 years of an unhappy Quan and then let him go?

I agree. Considering Quan's age and with his ability I can't see how you wouldn't consider him one of your core players.

 

[joko4]

Boldin is the anti-Boston. I don't even know how you compare the two.[/QUOTE]

Easy,if Q atays this course,the comparison will be they no longer play for the Cards.

 

[vinnymac]

I can see where you are going, but then what happens when Dockett, Dansby, Arrington & other non-1st rounders want their $$$ when they have great seasons?

that is the thing about salary cap. you won't be able to keep all your big names, unless the player are willing to take less than market value to stay on the team. an example would be teddy brushi of the patriots. he took less pay to stay with patriots and win championships. if you can find players like that then a team can build on success just like the patriots. in boldin case, he not getting anything near his market value, and he deserves to get paid. another reason boldin deserves the money is he helped get the cardinals back on the map. boldin rookie season put a buzz around hte nfl that the cardinals are going to be a forced to be reckon with. he didn't do it alone, but was one of the factors.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ,where do you think there's a FAIR deal going to come from when Q has Rosenpuke.
Q has checkmated himself.

Well considering how often I've said I detest Rosenhaus I am not sure why you seem to think I'm on his side?

The day QUan hired Rosenhaus I predicted we'd wind up trading Quan, that's how Rosenhaus works.

The thing is, Quan has said he wants to stay here, we have said we want him, I think that gives us some chance. Portis there was no chance, Portis felt he was the best RB in the NFL and wanted the most money, he told the Broncos point blank I want to be the highest paid RB in the NFL. This is a guy who posed with a mock heavyweight title belt around his waist on the sideline during and NFL game. Portis is a great player but he's on a par with TO when it comes to ego and being selfish.

Denver told Portis they'd redo his deal, but he and Rosenhaus forced the trade because they knew they would not get the highest paid RB in the NFL contract. I don't think Quan is doing that, he certainly has not come out in public and asked for it. IF Quan is asking to be the highest paid WR in the game I say immediately try to trade him, but at this point I see no reason to believe he is.

Especially when the same guy negotiating his contract is negotiating TO's contract and Santana Moss' contract and javon Walkers' contract. If he's asking for #1 contract for Quan, he'd be asking for it for all of those guys.

Nobody on this board dislikes Rosenhaus more than I do.

 

[Chainthroer]

Cards have the Cap money, so I doubt it would be in Quan's interest to force a trade. Not many teams have a lot of Cap space to do a big deal. [Then, of course, I thought that Kansas City did not have sufficient Cap space and they still figured a way to sign Surtain]!!

 

[joko4]

I am not claiming that. Just frustration. I am not against Q. Hell, over a year ago
I did not want Frtiz for this reason. Jan. 2004 I stated on this board I wanted BR, you know the QB that went to the Steelers. Bottom line, you cannot spend
100 million plus on two slot recievers.That's what we are really talking about in this mess.

 

[NFL_FAN]

Did you even watch this guy play? Quan did what no other rookie WR in history accomplished and he did it on a team with no talent. I don't think it was luck that the ball just happened to stick to his hand over 100 times his rookie season. I don't believe it was luck that allowed him to consistantly beat double teams and still manage to get over 1300 yards.

No doubt he had an incredible rookie season. I believe the big concern is the injury and if he can bounce back from it. They should agree to an extension with solid performance incentives so if he returns to rookie form he will be shown the money he wants. But we have no idea what Green and Graves are offering.

 

[MadCardDisease]

No doubt he had an incredible rookie season. I believe the big concern is the injury and if he can bounce back from it.

He was the leading receiver on the team during the second half of the season when he came back from his injury.

 

[slanidrac16]

I'd really be concerned if the Cards were publicly playing hardball, but they're not.

One more thought at the thought of making Quan play out his current contract. I truly believe he would pull a Keenan McCardell prior to the 2006 season, especially if he had a monster year in 2005.

Bottom line, the Cards should ante up an offer to make him happy. But it has to be equitable for both him and the club. He is the type of player that seems to be worhy of the gamble.

Hell guys, we are about to throw a bunch of money at Antrell Rolle and on the very first play of pre season he could get hurt an never play again.
Q has had two knee injuries. He played the entire 2003 season without any problems. His injury last year was a bit of a quirk( on how it happened). He came back and played the remainder of the year without incident. McGehee had one of the worst knee injuries I've ever seen and has come back to play just fine.

We're not talking about a marginal player here. Q has superstar written all over him. Thats why I think the Cards have to roll the dice just a bit.
I believe it will take a nice bonus to get it done and backload the last year to entice him to play out the contract and/or entice the club to renegotiate at that point.

 

[Russ Smith]

No doubt he had an incredible rookie season. I believe the big concern is the injury and if he can bounce back from it. They should agree to an extension with solid performance incentives so if he returns to rookie form he will be shown the money he wants. But we have no idea what Green and Graves are offering.

Oh I agree we need some protection should he get hurt again. But as for the stuff that so many say about one good year.

Last year Quan had 56 catches 623 yards 11.1 YPC and 2 TD's coming off the knee surgery. He played in 10 games starting 9, topped 100 yards twice, had a low of 31 twice.

In those same 10 games Fitz had 32 catches for 409 yards 12.78 YPC, 6 TD's. He had a game of 0 catcches, a game of 1 catch, 2 games of 2 catches. Game of 0 yards, game of 2 yards, game of 12 yards, game of 21 yards.

The fewest catches Quan had in a game last year was 3, Fitz had less than that in FOUR games of the 10 Quan played in.

Quan in the lineup really helped FItz score TD's, 6 in ten games with him, 2 in 6 games without him. But his other stats all went down, 3.2 catches per game with him, 4.3 without him. 12.78 YPC with him, 14.3 without him. Fact is that when they played together, Fitz wasn't nearly as effective as Quan was.

So if we're worried that Quan's rookie year was a fluke, we should REALLY be worrying about how overpaid and overrated Fitz is given those numbers.

Again, I'm not advocating making Quan the highest paid WR in the game, but we gotta come to some middle ground here because if people think we're going to get fair value in trading him it's VERY unlikely. Most of the disgruntled WR's who might get traded have the same agent Quan does, anybody want to trade for Santana Moss or Javon Walker and go through the same mess? Of all Rosenhaus' clients, Quan is probably the best character guy.

 

[Scott MS]

Boldin is the anti-Boston. I don't even know how you compare the two.

No, I think Kevin Kasper was the anti-Boston.

Boston and Boldin are closer than you think. They're the last 2 receivers to give the Cards front office headaches, and they both think they are worth much more than they really are.