Win over the Nugs

[dreamcastrocks]

Not at all. You know the old phrase: defense wins championships.

The proof hangs in the rafters of the AT&T center (and the trophy display case). Come to think of it, they might even need to build an addition to it this year.......

Hate to beat a dead horse but it doesn't seem like people around these parts recognize the need for great defense in order to seriously contend for a title.

I'm just puzzled that people are so exuberant about these offensive outbursts. Nice fireworks display, but where's the NBA Title banner? For that matter, where's the Western Conference Championship banner?

Oh, congrats on another defensive gem last night.......

Why do you think we traded for Shaq? It wasn't for offensive purposes. We can play both styles of basketball, slow grind it out, and uptempo fast break style. I'd say that this team is the envy of a lot of other teams around the league.

Oh, and we have made it to the finals twice btw.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I'm a realist gentlemen. The Nuggets aren't a serious contender yet. Getting to round two would be a major milestone for them.

You on the other hand tout the Suns as serious contenders. Do you honestly believe you can run and run your way to a title while giving up 106/per?

yes.

 

[Agloco]

Field goal % is a better measure of defense. Giving up a lot of points can be a result of fast pace to the game.

Hehe..... insider secret-

A major part of being a great defensive team is being able to control tempo........

Being a Suns fan I wouldn't expect you to be too familiar with all of the tenents of good defense. I'll let this slide.

 

[Agloco]

Why do you think we traded for Shaq? It wasn't for offensive purposes. We can play both styles of basketball, slow grind it out, and uptempo fast break style. I'd say that this team is the envy of a lot of other teams around the league.

Oh, and we have made it to the finals twice btw.

I thought someone would dredge up ancient history......

I think you and I both know that I was referring to the Suns in their current incarnation (ie the Nash years)

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I thought someone would dredge up ancient history......

I think you and I both know that I was referring to the Suns in their current incarnation (ie the Nash years)

Figured you might have been, but you never know.

 

[Agloco]

I'm a realist gentlemen. The Nuggets aren't a serious contender yet. Getting to round two would be a major milestone for them.

You on the other hand tout the Suns as serious contenders. Do you honestly believe you can run and run your way to a title while giving up 106/per?

yes.

I think Einstein hit the nail on the head with his definition of insanity.........

 

[Cheesewater]

I think Einstein hit the nail on the head with his definition of insanity.........

I think casting the Suns as only a run-and-gun team is old hat. They haven't run-and-gun really since Marion left. They ARE a hybrid team now. They play slow-it-down, they play run-it-up-your-back.

 

[Agloco]

I think casting the Suns as only a run-and-gun team is old hat. They haven't run-and-gun really since Marion left. They ARE a hybrid team now. They play slow-it-down, they play run-it-up-your-back.

Um...ok. What's it going to be though? You need an identity going into the playoffs. Being capable of playing both ways isn't the same as actually practicing it night in and night out.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I think Einstein hit the nail on the head with his definition of insanity.........

You are dangerously approaching the level of troll.

 

[Cheesewater]

Um...ok. What's it going to be though? You need an identity going into the playoffs. Being capable of playing both ways isn't the same as actually practicing it night in and night out.

Who (besides you) says you need an identity?

That IS the identity. Complete game. I think they are striving to achieve that balance night in and night out.

 

[Chaplin]

Um...ok. What's it going to be though? You need an identity going into the playoffs. Being capable of playing both ways isn't the same as actually practicing it night in and night out.

Are you dense? How do you think the Spurs beat us last year? It wasn't because they slowed the pace down. It was because they were able to MATCH our fast pace--that is a huge advantage they had, and now, we have.

 

[Agloco]

Who (besides you) says you need an identity?

That IS the identity. Complete game. I think they are striving to achieve that balance night in and night out.

The four championshp banners hanging in the AT&T center say that.
The three championship banners hanging in the Palace of Auburn Hills say that.
The nine championship banners hanging in the Staples Center say that.

etc, etc.
Getting the picture?

You knew what was coming with each and every one of those teams. I don't recall a major identity overhaul in the middle of the season for any of these teams.

Kudos for striving to achieve balance, but you have to have a forte. So what's the Suns strength exactly? What do they do better than almost anyone in the league? That's what thier calling card should be.

Are you dense? How do you think the Spurs beat us last year? It wasn't because they slowed the pace down. It was because they were able to MATCH our fast pace--that is a huge advantage they had, and now, we have.

No I'm not dense (my wife might disagree though). By advantages I suppose you mean your ability to slow things down now? Where is it then? It certainly wasn't evident against the Nuggets. You seem to think defense is something you can turn a switch on and just play. It's not at all like offense. You've got to be really hungry to want to play defense all game long. I don't see that commitment from the Suns.

 

[Cheesewater]

The four championshp banners hanging in the AT&T center say that.
The three championship banners hanging in the Palace of Auburn Hills say that.
The nine championship banners hanging in the Staples Center say that.

etc, etc.
Getting the picture?

You knew what was coming with each and every one of those teams. I don't recall a major identity overhaul in the middle of the season for any of these teams.

Yeah I think those teams have an identity because they won championships, not the other way around. Losing teams have identities too. And the Suns did not have a "major identity overhaul".

Kudos for striving to achieve balance, but you have to have a forte. So what's the Suns strength exactly? What do they do better than almost anyone in the league? That's what thier calling card should be.

How's this for a forte then: Adapting to or dictating the pace and then kicking the other team's butt? That sounds like a good calling card. It doesn't have to be EITHER grind-it-out or run-it-up.

No I'm not dense (my wife might disagree though). By advantages I suppose you mean your ability to slow things down now? Where is it then? It certainly wasn't evident against the Nuggets. You seem to think defense is something you can turn a switch on and just play. It's not at all like offense. You've got to be really hungry to want to play defense all game long. I don't see that commitment from the Suns.

If you're going to craft an edict on 1 or two games...then go ahead but...

I read this in another thread (thanks nowagimp!) so I haven't confirmed the number but :"Well the 42% opposing FG% that the suns reeled off over a 12 game span be for [sic] the nugz back to back"

 

[Agloco]

Yeah I think those teams have an identity because they won championships, not the other way around. Losing teams have identities too. And the Suns did not have a "major identity overhaul".

How's this for a forte then: Adapting to or dictating the pace and then kicking the other team's butt? That sounds like a good calling card. It doesn't have to be EITHER grind-it-out or run-it-up.

If you're going to craft an edict on 1 or two games...then go ahead but...

I read this in another thread (thanks nowagimp!) so I haven't confirmed the number but :"Well the 42% opposing FG% that the suns reeled off over a 12 game span be for [sic] the nugz back to back"

What was the trade for Shaq then exactly? More of the same? Because Shaq brings a similar skillset to the table right?

Good job on 42%. Why are your opponenets scoring 106/per then? Thats gotta be troubling on some level.

 

[Cheesewater]

What was the trade for Shaq then exactly? More of the same? Because Shaq brings a similar skillset to the table right?

They got Shaq for interior defense and rebounding without sacrificing offense. It has worked.

Good job on 42%. Why are your opponenets scoring 106/per then? Thats gotta be troubling on some level.

Not to me. I think I've got it figured out now though...it would worry YOU because you are a fan of a team that historically averages in the 90s right? My team can score 107 in their sleep. If you want to illustrate a scoring concern, look at point differential. Not just total point given up.

And yes, I'd LOVE to see a greater point differential for my team. Concerned? No.

 

[Agloco]

They got Shaq for interior defense and rebounding without sacrificing offense. It has worked.



Not to me. I think I've got it figured out now though...it would worry YOU because you are a fan of a team that historically averages in the 90s right? My team can score 107 in their sleep. If you want to illustrate a scoring concern, look at point differential. Not just total point given up.

And yes, I'd LOVE to see a greater point differential for my team. Concerned? No.

During the regular season against inferior competition. It helps to closely scrutinize who you've been playing also.

Your point about differential is a good one, and one that not many people understand or pay attention to. It's actually the barometer by which I love to gauge teams (Opp Pts. being the other).

While Dallas was winning 67 games last year, I looked at the league leader in differential and knew it would be ok. Guess who?

Based on that, you guys should avoid NOH like the plague. On second thought, everyone should.

 

[capologist]

Agloco, why do you assume that our scoring will suddenly plummet in the playoffs just because it’s the playoffs, but our opponents will continue to score at the same pace?

 

[elindholm]

Agloco, why do you assume that our scoring will suddenly plummet in the playoffs just because it’s the playoffs, but our opponents will continue to score at the same pace?

Well, because it fits his argument, obviously. He has no interest in being rational, only in attracting attention.

 

[Cheesewater]

During the regular season against inferior competition. It helps to closely scrutinize who you've been playing also.

84, 95, 87. San Antonio's score in the three games against the Suns this season. Under 106? Yeh, by a big margin. Unless that's who you meant by inferior competition...

Your point about differential is a good one, and one that not many people understand or pay attention to. It's actually the barometer by which I love to gauge teams (Opp Pts. being the other).

While Dallas was winning 67 games last year, I looked at the league leader in differential and knew it would be ok. Guess who?

Differential so far: SA +5.29, PHX +4.76
If you aren't worried, why should I be?

Based on that, you guys should avoid NOH like the plague. On second thought, everyone should.

Word.

Edit: Actually, no. NOH is only at +4.79 margin.

 

[Agloco]

Agloco, why do you assume that our scoring will suddenly plummet in the playoffs just because it’s the playoffs, but our opponents will continue to score at the same pace?

I'll spell it out again:

Because you're not a good defensive team......... and serious title contenders are.

What happens when you play SA?
My point is that I can have a reasonable expectation of being able to execute my offense against your defense. Can your offense say the same against my defense? Not that there won't be a dropoff on both ends. The difference works out in my favor though.

I don't think you can answer yes with a straight face. Phoenix's body of work speaks for itself over the past 5 years. Not so much as a WC Championship banner hanging from the rafters yet, much less an NBA title.

 

[nashman]

You Agloco are really clueless if you think this Suns team is anything like the ones of the past five years. God I hope we get to play your punk ass team and kick the crap out of them, strangely I feel like if that happens you and your little buddy ambchang can go in hiding together because we all know you won't be around here talking smack anymore!

 

[Agloco]

Well, because it fits his argument, obviously. He has no interest in being rational, only in attracting attention.

Attracting debate. If I want attention, I've got other options besides this board. Don't flatter yourself.

You must admit though, a good debate never hurt anyone. Egos perhaps, but that will pass.

 

[Agloco]

You Agloco are really clueless if you think this Suns team is anything like the ones of the past five years. God I hope we get to play your punk ass team and kick the crap out of them, strangely I feel like if that happens you and your little buddy ambchang can go in hiding together because we all know you won't be around here talking smack anymore!

I admire your passion......

Really I do. I won't take this personally.

Good luck on banner number one.

 

[Cheesewater]

Attracting debate. If I want attention, I've got other options besides this board. Don't flatter yourself.

You must admit though, a good debate never hurt anyone. Egos perhaps, but that will pass.

Except that you are not debating. I posted a reply with point differential information. Why don't you respond to that instead of the provoking posts? If you were really interested in debate you would ignore the posts not adding to the debate, no?

 

[Agloco]

Except that you are not debating. I posted a reply with point differential information. Why don't you respond to that instead of the provoking posts? If you were really interested in debate you would ignore the posts not adding to the debate, no?

Link? Again, I've got lots of fan mail to sift through. I won't intentionally duck a well presented view.

Nashmans personal flames? Well............