With the 4th pick, the Phoenix Suns Select

[AzStevenCal]

There's no denying that despite his shortcomings, Chriss has major up-side. But if the reports are true that Sarver is pushing Ryan to make the playoffs now, I can't see us taking him. And it's unlikely we'd take Bender either, neither player is going to help in the short run.

So I think we're going to push hard to trade down and failing that, we'll take whichever of the Sabonis/Ellenson duo we like best. Unless we also move Bledsoe, in which case we'll take Dunn and then probably move up from 13 to take the best of the remaining bigs.

 

[devilalum]

There's no denying that despite his shortcomings, Chriss has major up-side. But if the reports are true that Sarver is pushing Ryan to make the playoffs now, I can't see us taking him. And it's unlikely we'd take Bender either, neither player is going to help in the short run.

So I think we're going to push hard to trade down and failing that, we'll take whichever of the Sabonis/Ellenson duo we like best. Unless we also move Bledsoe, in which case we'll take Dunn.

It seems crazy that they would take Dunn not having worked him out or even interviewed him. If they do take him it shows a total lack of vision.

 

[slinslin]

You can't keep quoting the 24 mpg like its the reason his rebounding was low. Due to being a fouling machine he couldn't stay on the floor so his contributions were limited. And that will remain the case if he doesn't improve in tha area. And a lot of accounts are that he might not do so.

Of course I can.

He is 18. Amare was a junior in highschool at his age.

And so was Shawn Kemp who was 20 in his rookie season and averaged 6.5/4.3/0.3

 

[AzStevenCal]

It seems crazy that they would take Dunn not having worked him out or even interviewed him. If they do take him it shows a total lack of vision.

Not really. Just about every GM has a small group of like-minded GM's that trade info, Ryan will have no trouble learning what he needs to know. And with someone like Dunn, an established 2 way player, it's mostly window dressing anyway. It would be foolish to do it with someone that had no body of work from which to judge but Dunn's been performing at a high level in a very competitive league.

 

[Fenkin]

Hello guys. What about Dragan? It seems like no one want to him in our team. Why?

 

[overseascardfan]

You can't keep quoting the 24 mpg like its the reason his rebounding was low. Due to being a fouling machine he couldn't stay on the floor so his contributions were limited. And that will remain the case if he doesn't improve in tha area. And a lot of accounts are that he might not do so.

+1000. I also don't get why he keeps using that as an excuse. If he's foul prone in college it will be harder to stay out of foul trouble in the NBA.

 

[devilalum]

Not really. Just about every GM has a small group of like-minded GM's that trade info, Ryan will have no trouble learning what he needs to know. And with someone like Dunn, an established 2 way player, it's mostly window dressing anyway. It would be foolish to do it with someone that had no body of work from which to judge but Dunn's been performing at a high level in a very competitive league.

But if there was any chance that the Suns might take him they should have done this work themselves. If they were taking him with the 28th pick I could understand but taking a player at #4 when there is really only one pick ahead of you that is unaccounted for and not having worked him out is crappy work.

 

[slinslin]

If marquese chriss was also a great rebounder already he would be the easy no-brainer #1 pick in this draft.

 

[Covert Rain]

Hello guys. What about Dragan? It seems like no one want to him in our team. Why?

For me, I can't stand big men who play below the rim so much. If you look at his weakness videos he doesn't do well when someone close to his size faces him which will happen more in the NBA. There are times under the rim where he gets pushed around and he is not a good rebounder for someone his size. Simply terrible at positioning himself down low. The other thing that bothers me is his slow release (he often likes to stand straight up before shooting). None of this says great player to me. Just tire of big men who play small under the rim.

Many people here are OK if we end up with Bender though if you read through the thread.

 

[slinslin]

Ps I will be shocked if Chriss is not at least Markieff Morris with insane athleticism and an easier character.

I will take that at 4.

Gambo totally crushed the Bledsoe rumors.

Says we would like to trade Knight.

Would like to trade up from 13 to 7-9 for possibly Sabonis.

Would like to trade from 28+34 to 18-22

 

[AzStevenCal]

For me, I can't stand big men who play below the rim so much. If you look at his weakness videos he doesn't do well when someone close to his size faces him which will happen more in the NBA. There are times under the rim where he gets pushed around and he is not a good rebounder for someone his size. Simply terrible at positioning himself down low. The other thing that bothers me is his slow release (he often likes to stand straight up before shooting). None of this says great player to me. Just tire of big men who play small under the rim.

Many people here are OK if we end up with Bender though if you read through the thread.

I don't know how you put him in this category. And I don't see the slow release unless you're just looking at that weakness video from when he was 16. He can't defend a true center down low but he's much better defending the rim and defending in space than most of the bigs in this class. Plus, thinking that what you're seeing in a 16 or 17 year old big is what you're going to get in the long run is going to pull a lot of prospects off the table.

 

[Chaplin]

I don't know how you put him in this category. And I don't see the slow release unless you're just looking at that weakness video from when he was 16. He can't defend a true center down low but he's much better defending the rim and defending in space than most of the bigs in this class. Plus, thinking that what you're seeing in a 16 or 17 year old big is what you're going to get in the long run is going to pull a lot of prospects off the table.

I'm not sure how he can put him in ANY category. Does that mean he can't jump? Because he can. Can't block efficiently? If that's the case, that is hardly a deal breaker, even for pick #4.

 

[Covert Rain]

I don't know how you put him in this category. And I don't see the slow release unless you're just looking at that weakness video from when he was 16. He can't defend a true center down low but he's much better defending the rim and defending in space than most of the bigs in this class. Plus, thinking that what you're seeing in a 16 or 17 year old big is what you're going to get in the long run is going to pull a lot of prospects off the table.

There is a ton of recent video out there. You can clearly see he likes to stand straight up before releasing his shot sometimes. Also, disagree he is much better than anybody in this class down low. He is going to get pushed around and his positioning is horrible. In most of the video where he looks good he towers over everyone. When he gets up against bigger bodies in the NBA and some just as big...how is he going to look better?

Is he the worst? I didn't say that but he looks like another long shot project who probably won't be on the team after his contract is up.

 

[Chaplin]

There is a ton of recent video out there. You can clearly see he likes to stand straight up before releasing his shot sometimes. Also, disagree he is much better than anybody in this class down low. He is going to get pushed around and his positioning is horrible. In most of the video where he looks good he towers over everyone. When he gets up against bigger bodies in the NBA and some just as big...how is he going to look better?

Are you serious? It's a known fact that he had a horrible teaching experience where he's been, what with the team being awful and him not getting playing time. Add to that the limited footage of what he actually is, and I'm not sure you (or anybody on this forum) is qualified to make such an assessment.

I find it interesting that you think all this without taking into consideration improvement considering he's still a teenager.

 

[Covert Rain]

Are you serious? It's a known fact that he had a horrible teaching experience where he's been, what with the team being awful and him not getting playing time. Add to that the limited footage of what he actually is, and I'm not sure you (or anybody on this forum) is qualified to make such an assessment.

I find it interesting that you think all this without taking into consideration improvement considering he's still a teenager.

Ofcourse I am serious. So are many of the scouts who have pointed out the same thing. Bad teaching or no bad teaching he isn't good at certain things. Also, most draft picks can get better at some things. I have said that before myself. However, I have rarely rarely ever seen a big who struggles down low (i.e. rebounder) get markedly better in the NBA. It almost never happens. I hope I am wrong if we end up with the guy but I am not getting my hopes up.

 

[AzStevenCal]

There is a ton of recent video out there. You can clearly see he likes to stand straight up before releasing his shot sometimes. Also, disagree he is much better than anybody in this class down low. He is going to get pushed around and his positioning is horrible. In most of the video where he looks good he towers over everyone. When he gets up against bigger bodies in the NBA and some just as big...how is he going to look better?

Is he the worst? I didn't say that but he looks like another long shot project who probably won't be on the team after his contract is up.

Whoa, I never said anything about him not getting pushed around down low, or at least I never meant to. Yes, it's true, he is not going to be guarding true centers (true PFs) in the paint any time soon. But he can protect the rim and he is much better defending in space than most of the others options in this draft. And since he's clearly going to be a wing/stretch forward, those are the important things, not whether he can guard Cousins on the block.

 

[Mainstreet]

IMO, the Suns best option at #4 would be to trade down.


However, if the Suns cannot trade down, I will go with these selections in my mock.

4. Marquese Chriss

13. Dejounte Murray

28. Cheick Diallo

34. Tyler Ulis

 

[slinslin]

I don't know how you put him in this category. And I don't see the slow release unless you're just looking at that weakness video from when he was 16. He can't defend a true center down low but he's much better defending the rim and defending in space than most of the bigs in this class. Plus, thinking that what you're seeing in a 16 or 17 year old big is what you're going to get in the long run is going to pull a lot of prospects off the table.

That defending in space is a myth.

Defending the average Israeli league 3 or 4 in space is a totally different thing compared to defending even dleague players in space.

The difference in athleticism between euro leagues bball and NBA ball is ginormous.

Best example is Vesely who was horrendous at everything but when you put him back into Europe he suddenly looks like a 7 footer that can defend multiple positions.

Tldr: I believe it when I see it. Until then I will keep claiming that there is absolutely no way Bender can efficiently defend on the perimeter in the NBA. Especially once he put up 30lbs muscle which he absolutely has to.

And he cant defend in the paint at all. He is not a rim protector at all and fouls once per rebound on average.

He fouls more than Chriss.

His offensive game right now in europe is taking open setshots, nothing else almost. He takes more 3s than 2s.
Against better euroleague competition he shot 40/25 and made just 8 shots for the season while getting blocked 4 times. That is because he is not a pure shooter, he doesnt shoot off the dribble, he makes shots when he has some time and is open.

 

[AzStevenCal]

IMO, the Suns best option at #4 would be to trade down.


However, if the Suns cannot trade down, I will go with these selections in my mock.

4. Marquese Chriss

13. Dejounte Murray

28. Cheick Diallo

34. Tyler Ulis

Are those the choices you like the best at those spots or your guess as to who we take?

 

[Mainstreet]

Are those the choices you like the best at those spots or your guess as to who we take?

This is what I'm guessing the Suns will draft particularly at #4. Actually the #4 pick throws off my mock. If the Suns could trade down from #4, I would be happy with players like Deyonta Davis, Henry Ellenson or Sabonis at a pick like #8.

If it wasn't for the Suns need at PF I would probably select Jaylen Brown at #4.

 

[slinslin]

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[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Of course I can.

He is 18. Amare was a junior in highschool at his age.

And so was Shawn Kemp who was 20 in his rookie season and averaged 6.5/4.3/0.3

Age has nothing to do with the argument I just made.

 

[slinslin]

https://mobile.twitter.com/DraftExpress/status/746025458798632960

Says Noels value is late lottery, not top 5.

Seems to be right on imo.

Offense is bad and longterm injury concern dont disappear.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

Talk that Noel may be available for a late lottery pick - I'd give up 13 for him in a heartbeat.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Talk that Noel may be available for a late lottery pick - I'd give up 13 for him in a heartbeat.

What's your reasoning?

I'd still worry about the same things today that kept us away on draft night, the concern that his knees won't make it much past his first contract. Having seen how poorly he fits next to an inside man, I can't see him making an impact for anyone unless they play him in the middle. And pair him with a good stretch forward. That parts doable if we're looking to move on from Len though.