With the Josh Allen extension, gotta imagine Kyler's up next year

[oaken1]

The objective is to win the game. You can play for field goals or not but the reality in the pros is most games seem to come down to three points or less... Kliff hence was not wrong, but our kicker was to blame unless you think Kliff had some juggernaut of talent which winning would come down to blowing people out

When your coach is an offensive genius and your quarterback is a transcendent talent.... playing for a field goal is a losers move.

 

[Stout]

The objective is to win the game. You can play for field goals or not but the reality in the pros is most games seem to come down to three points or less... Kliff hence was not wrong, but our kicker was to blame unless you think Kliff had some juggernaut of talent which winning would come down to blowing people out

If you have a good kicker, this is smart (when you aren't leaving a ton of time on the clock). When you have a crappy kicker that is literally losing us games, it is grossly stupid coaching (especially when there's time on the clock and you start coaching uber conservatively down the stretch).

 

[BritCard]

When your coach is an offensive genius and your quarterback is a transcendent talent.... playing for a field goal is a losers move.

Playing for a 30 yard FG level with 10 seconds to go is smart. We didn't do this.

Playing for a 40+ yard FG with a kicker that's inconsistent over 40 yards, while behind, with 2-5 minutes remaining so the other team has another drive anyway is dumb. We did this at least twice.

 

[oaken1]

Playing for a 30 yard FG level with 10 seconds to go is smart. We didn't do this.

Playing for a 40+ yard FG with a kicker that's inconsistent over 40 yards, while behind, with 2-5 minutes remaining so the other team has another drive anyway is dumb. We did this at least twice.

Right.... obviously if you’re near midfield.... down by one.... and there is 12 seconds left then you look for the strike but make sure you at least get in FG range....
Kliff has brass balls through three quarters.... but when it’s on the line he shrivels

 

[QuebecCard]

Sunk cost fallacy. If your coach sucks, firing him and starting over is a far more desirable outcome than sticking your head in the sand and pretending all is well.




Yet some moron continually coached scared at the end of games and PLAYED FOR FIELD GOALS. Thank you so much for proving my point.

Riddle me this?

You earlier were concerned about wasting KM's lower-cost years and strongly suggested that the Cards should have fired Keim and KK this offseason. How are the disruption and change brought about by having a new GM/staff handling FA and the draft, and a new H-C/staff not a close to perfect recipe for wasting the 2021 and possibly 2022 seasons?

Do you actually think that we'd be closer to a playoff birth this season had we fired Keim and KK given all this resulting disruption?

 

[Stout]

Riddle me this?

You earlier were concerned about wasting KM's lower-cost years and strongly suggested that the Cards should have fired Keim and KK this offseason. How are the disruption and change brought about by having a new GM/staff handling FA and the draft, and a new H-C/staff not a close to perfect recipe for wasting the 2021 and possibly 2022 seasons?

Do you actually think that we'd be closer to a playoff birth this season had we fired Keim and KK given all this resulting disruption?

Sunk cost fallacy. If your coach sucks, firing him and starting over is a far more desirable outcome than sticking your head in the sand and pretending all is well.

Obviously, yes, I think that firing them and hiring better replacements would put us closer to a playoff birth, if not in the playoffs.

 

[Solar7]

Sunk cost fallacy. If your coach sucks, firing him and starting over is a far more desirable outcome than sticking your head in the sand and pretending all is well.

Obviously, yes, I think that firing them and hiring better replacements would put us closer to a playoff birth, if not in the playoffs.

Not only this, but hopefully push us in the direction of long term success quicker. Even if we make the playoffs, does anyone think we're going to contend? Because the team has to be rebuilt next year.

At the moment we only have 38 players under contract for 2022, and 4-6 of those probably don't count, as they're players like Jordan Hicks and Andy Isabella, who will be released/traded in short order.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Not only this, but hopefully push us in the direction of long term success quicker. Even if we make the playoffs, does anyone think we're going to contend? Because the team has to be rebuilt next year.

At the moment we only have 38 players under contract for 2022, and 4-6 of those probably don't count, as they're players like Jordan Hicks and Andy Isabella, who will be released/traded in short order.

LOL your schtick about players under contract is hilarious. If you pull this number for nearly every team, it's the same.

I posted an article 4 months ago that made a mockery of this complaint.

Most of the deserving guys will be resigned and the chicken little routine will then focus on the next year or the year after that.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Sunk cost fallacy. If your coach sucks, firing him and starting over is a far more desirable outcome than sticking your head in the sand and pretending all is well.

Obviously, yes, I think that firing them and hiring better replacements would put us closer to a playoff birth, if not in the playoffs.

I'm much more of in the fire Keim camp. There is just a lot of evidence that he isn't the guy to build a championship roster.

While I think we disagree on the current state of the Cardinals roster, the one thing we all should be able to agree on is that Keim isn't building this team through the draft. He just isn't. Too much of the meat of this team is acquired through free agency or costly trades. Keim hasn't been terrible at this aspect, but teams built through free agency are expensive.

Look at the Rams, Les Snead has gotten pretty damn good at replacing expensive vets with cheap, young players, especially in the secondary.

On ESPN Plus, they have the current rankings for young talent (25 and younger) and the Cardinals are ranked 12th. Rams are like 23rd, Seahawks 28th, and the Niners are like 5th or 6th. So the numbers aren't as bad as some on this board think. Granted, Murray pushes this ranking up a lot, but the Cardinals do have a good future if they have the right guy to steer the ship.

I don't think Keim is that guy, because we can't trust him to replenish the roster cheaply and it will result in the team going into a rebuild every 3-4 years and another few lean years between runs. This current team is going to need to win NOW because the Cardinals aren't going to have a cheap QB after maybe next season.

 

[Solar7]

LOL your schtick about players under contract is hilarious. If you pull this number for nearly every team, it's the same.

I posted an article 4 months ago that made a mockery of this complaint.

Most of the deserving guys will be resigned and the chicken little routine will then focus on the next year or the year after that.

Literally just picking a random team, the WFT has 43 players under contract. I'm sure they have some players that qualify like ours, that won't make the team, but it's still more.

We've got to replace or re-sign multiple starters with the looming specter of extending Kyler. And re-signing a lot of our current starters we're losing again counts on relying on guys age 32+.

We'll need:
WR2 (assuming Rondale sticks in the slot)
RB1 (and 2, to be fair)
TE (and basically all three unless Carl Angeline or Bernard Seihkovits turn into anything)
CB1
OLB1

That's already looking steep given we don't have a ton of estimated cap space next year ($17 million). Compare that to the past two years where we've had a lot more and still haven't been able to do a ton... I don't know how anyone can't feel like Keim isn't desperately trying to paddle upstream with a boat he keeps patching on the fly.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Literally just picking a random team, the WFT has 43 players under contract. I'm sure they have some players that qualify like ours, that won't make the team, but it's still more.

We've got to replace or re-sign multiple starters with the looming specter of extending Kyler. And re-signing a lot of our current starters we're losing again counts on relying on guys age 32+.

We'll need:
WR2 (assuming Rondale sticks in the slot)
RB1 (and 2, to be fair)
TE (and basically all three unless Carl Angeline or Bernard Seihkovits turn into anything)
CB1
OLB1

That's already looking steep given we don't have a ton of estimated cap space next year ($17 million). Compare that to the past two years where we've had a lot more and still haven't been able to do a ton... I don't know how anyone can't feel like Keim isn't desperately trying to paddle upstream with a boat he keeps patching on the fly.

Five more! That's a small amount bro. And Spotrac has the Cardinals with 41 under contract for 2022.

SF has 37 under contract. KC has 36 under contract. Bears 41. Patriots 45. Lions 41. Titans 45. Colts 40. Texans 37.

This is literally a non-story.

 

[DVontel]

Five more! That's a small amount bro. And Spotrac has the Cardinals with 41 under contract for 2022.

SF has 37 under contract. KC has 36 under contract. Bears 41. Patriots 45. Lions 41. Titans 45. Colts 40. Texans 37.

This is literally a non-story.

Yea, there’s A LOT more things you can get mad about than this. @Solar7. This is pointless.

 

[Solar7]

Five more! That's a small amount bro. And Spotrac has the Cardinals with 41 under contract for 2022.

SF has 37 under contract. KC has 36 under contract. Bears 41. Patriots 45. Lions 41. Titans 45. Colts 40. Texans 37.

This is literally a non-story.

Spotrac's overall listing is including guys we're paying the void contract years to. SF, KC, TEN, IND, are all playoff likely/championship contenders (well, IND was until the unfortunate injuries). The Lions are in as bad of shape as us, sure. But CHI, NE, IND, etc. all have much better cap situations than we do. Anyone else in worse shape outside of the Texans is a contender.

We're in the bottom five of players signed for next year with the third least money of those five teams. Our best comps right now are the Lions and Texans, because we can at least all agree that the 49ers and Chiefs have quality squads that can win now.

Yea, there’s A LOT more things you can get mad about than this. @Solar7. This is pointless.

I'm mad that any success we have this year is going to count on yet another desperate rebuild coming up around the corner. Without a cheap QB contract anymore, those kinds of annual rebuilds can't continue. Keim is screwing the pooch here with his abhorrent drafting.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Spotrac's overall listing is including guys we're paying the void contract years to. SF, KC, TEN, IND, are all playoff likely/championship contenders (well, IND was until the unfortunate injuries). The Lions are in as bad of shape as us, sure. But CHI, NE, IND, etc. all have much better cap situations than we do. Anyone else in worse shape outside of the Texans is a contender.

We're in the bottom five of players signed for next year with the third least money of those five teams. Our best comps right now are the Lions and Texans, because we can at least all agree that the 49ers and Chiefs have quality squads that can win now.


I'm mad that any success we have this year is going to count on yet another desperate rebuild coming up around the corner. Without a cheap QB contract anymore, those kinds of annual rebuilds can't continue. Keim is screwing the pooch here with his abhorrent drafting.

There is no correlation. That was the point of my post.

And if you think the Cardinals are on the same level as the LIONS....

 

[DVontel]

Literally just picking a random team, the WFT has 43 players under contract. I'm sure they have some players that qualify like ours, that won't make the team, but it's still more.

We've got to replace or re-sign multiple starters with the looming specter of extending Kyler. And re-signing a lot of our current starters we're losing again counts on relying on guys age 32+.

We'll need:
WR2 (assuming Rondale sticks in the slot)
RB1 (and 2, to be fair)
TE (and basically all three unless Carl Angeline or Bernard Seihkovits turn into anything)
CB1
OLB1

That's already looking steep given we don't have a ton of estimated cap space next year ($17 million). Compare that to the past two years where we've had a lot more and still haven't been able to do a ton... I don't know how anyone can't feel like Keim isn't desperately trying to paddle upstream with a boat he keeps patching on the fly.

Man it just continues to irritate me that you keep putting RB in the same ballpark as CB1 & OLB1 as need lmao

 

[Solar7]

There is no correlation. That was the point of my post.

And if you think the Cardinals are on the same level as the LIONS....

We're not far away. The cap situation isn't far away. At least they're working on a rebuild. We're "all-in" on a whole lot of nothing.

Man it just continues to irritate me that you keep putting RB in the same ballpark as CB1 & OLB1 as need lmao

RB falls well behind CB1 & OLB1 next year, but this franchise has consistently failed to put a reasonable product out there at RB. One way or the other, we need to fill that role. We haven't. I completely agree with you that in the modern NFL, you should be able to produce with talent aggregated in the 2nd-3rd (4th with some luck) rounds. Instead, we pay the franchise tag for Kenyan Drake, or rely on dudes who are backup tier players.

I wouldn't harp on RB if we had anything resembling future talent. Both guys on hand are okay at best, and will require a longer contract to retain.

 

[Krangodnzr]

We're not far away. The cap situation isn't far away. At least they're working on a rebuild. We're "all-in" on a whole lot of nothing.


RB falls well behind CB1 & OLB1 next year, but this franchise has consistently failed to put a reasonable product out there at RB. One way or the other, we need to fill that role. We haven't. I completely agree with you that in the modern NFL, you should be able to produce with talent aggregated in the 2nd-3rd (4th with some luck) rounds. Instead, we pay the franchise tag for Kenyan Drake, or rely on dudes who are backup tier players.

I wouldn't harp on RB if we had anything resembling future talent. Both guys on hand are okay at best, and will require a longer contract to retain.

A top RB can be a third round pick next year.

This Chicken Little routine is hilarious.

I'm much more concerned with the future of Chandler Jones or if the team can find his replacement.

All of these problems you are talking about, a good GM can address quite easily. Remember the Saints pending salary cap hell coming into last offseason and next offseason? Yeah thats not really affecting them at all! A good GM can rework a few contracts and get out of it.

Its a concern of the uninformed, because if you look at teams since the salary cap era, there is nearly always a way to move money around to make moves.

I know what I am saying will have no impact on your thinking even though everything I am saying right now is 100% factually correct.

 

[Cardiac]

Literally just picking a random team, the WFT has 43 players under contract. I'm sure they have some players that qualify like ours, that won't make the team, but it's still more.

We've got to replace or re-sign multiple starters with the looming specter of extending Kyler. And re-signing a lot of our current starters we're losing again counts on relying on guys age 32+.

We'll need:
WR2 (assuming Rondale sticks in the slot)
RB1 (and 2, to be fair)
TE (and basically all three unless Carl Angeline or Bernard Seihkovits turn into anything)
CB1
OLB1

That's already looking steep given we don't have a ton of estimated cap space next year ($17 million). Compare that to the past two years where we've had a lot more and still haven't been able to do a ton... I don't know how anyone can't feel like Keim isn't desperately trying to paddle upstream with a boat he keeps patching on the fly.

Why would you randomly pick the WFT and not 1 or 2 from our division.

 

[Solar7]

A top RB can be a third round pick next year.

This Chicken Little routine is hilarious.

I'm much more concerned with the future of Chandler Jones or if the team can find his replacement.

All of these problems you are talking about, a good GM can address quite easily. Remember the Saints pending salary cap hell coming into last offseason and next offseason? Yeah thats not really affecting them at all! A good GM can rework a few contracts and get out of it.

Its a concern of the uninformed, because if you look at teams since the salary cap era, there is nearly always a way to move money around to make moves.

I know what I am saying will have no impact on your thinking even though everything I am saying right now is 100% factually correct.

That's funny. They're not "just fine." They'll struggle to make the playoffs and are counting on a QB competition between the likes of Taysom Hill and Jameis Winston to carry them through the season. With Michael Thomas hurt, their receiving corps is among the worst in the NFL. Their TEs stink. That offense is going to be nothing but Kamara.

I laugh at this third round RB nonsense that's constantly spouted. If it's so easy, why aren't we flush with top RBs?

It's simple... because only a few 3rd round RBs pan out and it's not as much of a throwaway position as you insist. Especially with someone who can't draft at the helm.

You're also forgetting that continuity actually helps teams. But fine, I'm a chicken little because I don't think rebuilding our non-playoff roster every year with diminishing cap space is a healthy strategy to winning.

 

[Solar7]

Why would you randomly pick the WFT and not 1 or 2 from our division.

1. They're my dad's team, so they come to mind a lot.
2. They have a similar record but have been better drafters.

 

[Krangodnzr]

That's funny. They're not "just fine." They'll struggle to make the playoffs and are counting on a QB competition between the likes of Taysom Hill and Jameis Winston to carry them through the season. With Michael Thomas hurt, their receiving corps is among the worst in the NFL. Their TEs stink. That offense is going to be nothing but Kamara.

I laugh at this third round RB nonsense that's constantly spouted. If it's so easy, why aren't we flush with top RBs?

It's simple... because only a few 3rd round RBs pan out and it's not as much of a throwaway position as you insist. Especially with someone who can't draft at the helm.

You're also forgetting that continuity actually helps teams. But fine, I'm a chicken little because I don't think rebuilding our non-playoff roster every year with diminishing cap space is a healthy strategy to winning.

I'm talking about their cap situation....teams tend to fall back down to Earth when a HOF QB retires lol.

The Cardinals aren't flush with RB talent because they haven't used the draft capital besides David Johnson...which proves my point!!!!

 

[QuebecCard]

That's funny. They're not "just fine." They'll struggle to make the playoffs and are counting on a QB competition between the likes of Taysom Hill and Jameis Winston to carry them through the season. With Michael Thomas hurt, their receiving corps is among the worst in the NFL. Their TEs stink. That offense is going to be nothing but Kamara.

I laugh at this third round RB nonsense that's constantly spouted. If it's so easy, why aren't we flush with top RBs?

It's simple... because only a few 3rd round RBs pan out and it's not as much of a throwaway position as you insist. Especially with someone who can't draft at the helm.

You're also forgetting that continuity actually helps teams. But fine, I'm a chicken little because I don't think rebuilding our non-playoff roster every year with diminishing cap space is a healthy strategy to winning.

The guy who would have fired Keim/KK and by extension their staff this offseason preaches the importance of continuity.

Missing the playoffs last season can be chalked up to a number of specific reasons, which doesn't include a non-playoff roster.

 

[Solar7]

I'm talking about their cap situation....teams tend to fall back down to Earth when a HOF QB retires lol.

The Cardinals aren't flush with RB talent because they haven't used the draft capital besides David Johnson...which proves my point!!!!

Regardless, they're not "just fine." They're unlikely to be a playoff team, and have many years of probable rebuilding ahead of them, barring Jameis suddenly becoming elite with Payton's coaching. I don't know what else you mean by "just fine" unless you think I thought they or we in the future are going to be barred from playing in the league because of a cap situation.

My point is, we're bottom five in how full our roster is, we don't have a particularly large amount of talent on the team, and we have very little money to handle that problem with the looming contract on the horizon.

Also, let's take a look at round 3 RBs and how great they've been in the past six years, to see if "a top RB can be a round 3 pick next year." I'll star the guys making real impacts.

2021:
Trey Sermon - TBD, but won't start
2020:
Ke'Shawn Vaugn - 3rd stringer
Zack Moss - Maybe the starter? He's hurt though.
Darrynton Evans - Will barely see the field
2019:
Darrell Henderson - Only the starter due to injury, was replaced after year one
*David Montgomery - The first example of a good RB on this list
*Devin Singletary - Probably more credit than he's deserved given he's in a timeshare
Damien Harris - Has potential but was a complete wash year one
2018:
Royce Freeman - Non-factor to probably get released or traded, team signed a pricey FA
2017:
*Alvin Kamara - Legit star
*Kareem Hunt - Kinda half of a star deserved here because he let his team down
D'Onta Foreman - Non-factor
*James Conner - I'll give him a star but he was a non-factor as a rookie and then mediocre besides 2018
2016:
Kenyan Drake - Some flashes but ultimately not a starting caliber player for Miami (or us)
C.J. Prosise - Non-factor

So... out of 15 guys in six years, five guys have been legit players. Only 3 have had 1,000 yard seasons (although Kamara deserves a shout out for his passing game accomplishments).

The success rate isn't as high as you seem to think. It's not just a plug and play scenario. Especially when you consider that the successful rookies in that list are basically just Hunt and Kamara.

 

[Solar7]

The guy who would have fired Keim/KK and by extension their staff this offseason preaches the importance of continuity.

Missing the playoffs last season can be chalked up to a number of specific reasons, which doesn't include a non-playoff roster.

Continuity of bad decision makers isn't good for winning either. Our GM can't draft, our HC doesn't want to coach anything but offense. Missing the playoffs last year can be chalked up to not being able to manage game situations.

 

[oaken1]

Spotrac's overall listing is including guys we're paying the void contract years to. SF, KC, TEN, IND, are all playoff likely/championship contenders (well, IND was until the unfortunate injuries). The Lions are in as bad of shape as us, sure. But CHI, NE, IND, etc. all have much better cap situations than we do. Anyone else in worse shape outside of the Texans is a contender.

We're in the bottom five of players signed for next year with the third least money of those five teams. Our best comps right now are the Lions and Texans, because we can at least all agree that the 49ers and Chiefs have quality squads that can win now.


I'm mad that any success we have this year is going to count on yet another desperate rebuild coming up around the corner. Without a cheap QB contract anymore, those kinds of annual rebuilds can't continue. Keim is screwing the pooch here with his abhorrent drafting.

Lmao.... sorry bro.... third least... out of five!!
Perspective and agenda.... third least is also third best.

I mean, screw keim... fire him yesterday and go beat him with a bat tomorrow.... I’m on board

but try not to be so obvious