Would Dampier Be Worth The Price?

[George O'Brien]

Currently, Dampier of the Warriors has a player option for next year. He is currently scheduled to make $8.1 million in 2004-05 and $8.7 million in 2005-06. I have no information suggesting that he is especially unhappy in GS, but it is a franchise in transition.

I would guess he would need at least one and probably two million more to make a move. This would put him in the $9 to $10 million range.

At 6'11" and 265, he has the size and strength to battle big opponents.

He is a good shot blocker and great rebounder. This year he has shown more offense as well with 11.6 ppg, 11.4 rpg, and is shooting 50.4% from the field.

I don't know if he is an ideal fit for the Suns and his numbers are certainly up this season (last year he had only 6.6 rpg in 23 minutes). Maybe this is just a contract year push?

Getting Dampier would require unloading White, possibly as part of a multiteam deal. With only one year left on his contract, White is much more marketable this summer. (The other possiblity would be that he gets taken by the Bobcats).

Overall, I think this kind of deal makes sense. A combination of Dampier, Voskuhl and Lampe would give the Suns three radically different styles for matchups. If Dampier were to play even close to how he has this year, it would give the Suns the best rebounding and shot blocking front line in the NBA.

 

[slinslin]

First of all Dampier has been discussed before. http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23357&highlight=dampier Look who started the thread...


2nd of all is Dampier also injury prone and lazy and might not opt out.

3rd of all 9M$-10M$ is ridiculous.

I would much rather have Camby for the same price than and Camby would most definately be cheaper than 9M$.

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
If Dampier were to play even close to how he has this year, it would give the Suns the best rebounding and shot blocking front line in the NBA.

That's a very big "if." His play this year has been very good, and would be a nice fit with the other Suns centers. But that is too much money, IMO, to pay for someone who put up such mediocre #'s until this year. The fact that it happened at age 29, and in a contract year, leads me to believe it could be an aberration.

I'd love him for the MLE, but someone will no doubt overpay him next year.

 

[SunsTzu]

Re: Re: Would Dampier Be Worth The Price?

Originally posted by newfan101

I'd love him for the MLE, but someone will no doubt overpay him next year.

I agree. I feel the same way about Camby.

 

[elindholm]

No Dampier, no Camby.

There is no case in history where a team has gotten better by overpaying a second-tier center. If anyone can think of example, let me know, but I don't think there is one.

Camby is a very good player when healthy, but I'll be amazed even if he makes it through the end of this season without breaking down. The Suns, we hope, have learned from their mistake with Hardaway.

And Dampier is a flash in the pan, a slightly more dramatic version of Marc Jackson. No thank you.

 

[elindholm]

Sorry, one other thing:

To me it is ludicrous to even suggest offering $10 million a year to Dampier while, in the next sentence, saying that it would be a mistake to offer slightly more than that to Kobe Bryant. Bryant would have at least 20 times as much impact as Dampier would.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Originally posted by elindholm
Sorry, one other thing:

To me it is ludicrous to even suggest offering $10 million a year to Dampier while, in the next sentence, saying that it would be a mistake to offer slightly more than that to Kobe Bryant. Bryant would have at least 20 times as much impact as Dampier would.

Exactly. Besides, we've got enough picks stockpiled over the next few years. We ought to be able to find a center at least as good as Dampier with one of those.

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by elindholm
Sorry, one other thing:

To me it is ludicrous to even suggest offering $10 million a year to Dampier while, in the next sentence, saying that it would be a mistake to offer slightly more than that to Kobe Bryant. Bryant would have at least 20 times as much impact as Dampier would.

I agree 100%.

 

[SunsTzu]

If Dampier does opt out I don't see any team thats going to pay him more than 8mil anyway. The only teams that would be able to offer him more are Suns, Jazz, Nuggets, Spurs and Warriors. If the Spurs resign Manu and Nuggets resign Camby then that would take them out. Jazz are really the only team that might over pay for him.

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by elindholm
Bryant would have at least 20 times as much impact as Dampier would.

I don't think anybody on this board would argue against that.

There is no case in history where a team has gotten better by overpaying a second-tier center. If anyone can think of example, let me know, but I don't think there is one.

Sacramento, this year. They signed Vlade as a FA too, I believe.



If the Suns are in the market for a center, then I count at least four teams (Denver, Golden State, Utah and Phoenix) going for two centers (Dampier and Camby). Even if you throw Utah out of the mix, I think the Suns will have to pay top dollar to get either of the two centers.

 

[SunsTzu]

From what GSW fans are saying I doubt Dampier is back there next year and wouldn't be suprised if he's dealt before the end of the year.

The difference between Sac and us is they are a contender and we are not. As a rebuilding team I don't see the need for 30 year old centers each being quite disappointing till this contract year.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by F-Dog



Sacramento, this year. They signed Vlade as a FA too, I believe.

Divac was not a FA last summer.

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by SunsTzu
From what GSW fans are saying I doubt Dampier is back there next year and wouldn't be suprised if he's dealt before the end of the year.

I can see why--I'm not high on him either (there's a big difference in my eyes between Camby getting hurt and Dampier dogging it for years at a time).

Also, I agree with you that 30-year-old free agents aren't ideal to go with the Suns' youth movement.

Originally posted by SunsTzu
The difference between Sac and us is they are a contender and we are not.

It still counts as a "case in history", though.

Portland and Arvydas Sabonis is another.

 

[SunsTzu]

Originally posted by F-Dog




It still counts as a "case in history", though.

You are technically correct. The best kind of correct.

 

[F-Dog]

Originally posted by hcsilla
Divac was not a FA last summer.

The question is, was Vlade a FA when the Kings first got him?

If so, that too counts as a "case in history".

 

[Dan H]

Originally posted by F-Dog
The question is, was Vlade a FA when the Kings first got him?

If so, that too counts as a "case in history".

They signed him from Charlotte. He would have been a lot better in a Suns uni than Longley, huh? The two were FA's the same summer.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I wouldn't mind Dampier, but no way to I pay him more than the mid level exception.

This next year it is going to be a buyers market.

 

[elindholm]

I thought someone might bring up Sacramento and Miller. It's debatable whether the Kings are any better this year than last. And Miller is mainly playing PF for them, not center. When Webber returns and Miller starts seeing most of his minutes at center, we'll see just how much better he has made the Kings.

Portland was already an elite team before they added Sabonis. He didn't get them any farther in the playoffs than they had been before, although I grant that he could have if not for the infamous Game 7 meltdown. But wasn't Sabonis on a cheap contract? I was asking about cases where the centers were overpaid.

You can make a case for Divac, I'll give you that one.

 

[George O'Brien]

"Kobe is 20 times more valuable than Dampier." Let's see, Dampier is averaging just over 11 points a game, so I can expect Kobe to average 210 ppg?

Let me say that I do not expect the Suns to find a quality center in this year's draft. None of the real centers are more promising than Lampe and I don't expect him to be a starter for at least two years.

I am not excited about getting Camby although he is a really fine player. Camby benefits from playing with Nene, who is 6'11" and listed at 260 and can take on the bigger opponents. While I'm sure he would be a big help, I can't see the Suns winning a championship with him at the #5.

Okur is not the kind of strong defensive player I think the Suns will need in the playoffs.

So where does that leave us? The push for Kobe is based on him being the key piece to winning it all, but without at least a mid level center I think that is unrealistic. Would Kobe even want to join a team that had that big a hole?

Maybe Dampier isn't the answer, but I don't see the Suns getting to the championship unless they have someone at least as good as him at center.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien


Maybe Dampier isn't the answer, but I don't see the Suns getting to the championship unless they have someone at least as good as him at center.

Then what do you suggest? You're great at pointing out what we need, but you never offer any solutions.

Probably because your idea of getting a center is near impossible because your perfect center doesn't exist in today's NBA. And even if he did, we probably won't be in a position to acquire him.

On the other hand, even though you are convinced Kobe wouldn't help us to a championship, he at least would help us get deep in the playoffs--and a deep playoff team is much more desirable to a free agent in 2005 and beyond for the kinds of centers you would prefer.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Then what do you suggest? You're great at pointing out what we need, but you never offer any solutions.

I was the one who suggested Dampier and got shot down.

[Probably because your idea of getting a center is near impossible because your perfect center doesn't exist in today's NBA. And even if he did, we probably won't be in a position to acquire him.

I don't want a perfect center. I want a center who can play defense, block shots, and rebound - and score just enough to force opponents to defend him.

[On the other hand, even though you are convinced Kobe wouldn't help us to a championship, he at least would help us get deep in the playoffs--and a deep playoff team is much more desirable to a free agent in 2005 and beyond for the kinds of centers you would prefer.

That's an interesting strategy. I just have to wonder how it differs from the Maverick's strategy.

 

[elindholm]

The push for Kobe is based on him being the key piece to winning it all, but without at least a mid level center I think that is unrealistic.

Which is more likely?

A. Bryant continues to improve (he's still only 25) and eventually reaches a Jordaneque level, sufficient to win championships in spite of not having a solid center on his team.

B. The Suns form a championship-level team with Stoudemire as the only true star, having spent most of their money on an "adequate" but unspectacular center, just so they can say they don't have a hole in the middle.

My money would be on A.

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
The push for Kobe is based on him being the key piece to winning it all, but without at least a mid level center I think that is unrealistic.

Which is more likely?

A. Bryant continues to improve (he's still only 25) and eventually reaches a Jordaneque level, sufficient to win championships in spite of not having a solid center on his team.

B. The Suns form a championship-level team with Stoudemire as the only true star, having spent most of their money on an "adequate" but unspectacular center, just so they can say they don't have a hole in the middle.

My money would be on A.

Only two choices?

How about:

Amare becomes an elite player
Marion returns to his all-star form
JJ becomes a near all-star level player
Barbosa and/or Vujanic become a top ten PG
Cabakapa becomes sixth man of the year

and the Suns have Voskuhl at center

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
Only two choices?

How about:

Amare becomes an elite player
Marion returns to his all-star form
JJ becomes a near all-star level player
Barbosa and/or Vujanic become a top ten PG
Cabakapa becomes sixth man of the year

and the Suns have Voskuhl at center

The thing is, everything on that list doesn't have very good odds of happening. But Kobe is a proven talent RIGHT NOW. That means a lot, especially in today's NBA.

 

[elindholm]

How about :

Amare becomes an elite player
Marion returns to his all-star form
JJ becomes a near all-star level player
Barbosa and/or Vujanic become a top ten PG
Cabakapa becomes sixth man of the year

and the Suns have Voskuhl at center

How about it? That team wouldn't be a title contender, and I still maintain that adding Bryant to it would help more than upgrading the center position.

Also, I don't know why you're so down on Voskuhl. He commits stupid fouls, but he should, eventually, be able to learn how to avoid that. I disagree with you that he is particularly weak or undersized -- he certainly looks at least as big as Camby or as strong as Divac. He moves well and even has a decent set shot from 12-15 feet. He is by far the best rebounder on the Suns from a technique standpoint, by which I mean he actually knows how to box out. In my opinion his hands are pretty good (even though he brings the ball down low more than he should) and he's a fairly reliable finisher around the basket -- he'd be in the top five in the league in FG% if he had enough attempts to qualify. It's true that he's not a shot-blocker, but neither is Brad Miller, of whom you seem so enamored. And he's still fairly young at 26.

In short, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Voskuhl gets to the level where, the next time he is a free agent (summer 2006), he's in a position to command MLE money.