Would Tmac be that much more than Marion, JJ after next year?

[cardsunsfan]

I really don't understand why we were stalling at moving JJ. He is a very inconsistant player. Either he stays inconsistant next year which would really hurt our team or he plays great and we have to pay him a lot of money. With Marion's max contract and JJ's possible very big contract (if he has a really good year could he ask for the max?!) . We could be paying as much or more than McGrady right? How many players have max contracts that aren't in the top ten players in the league, let alone five!? I think there are several including Marion. Many teams don't have the opportunity to get a top five player so they end up spending a lot of their money, sometimes giving out max contracts to players who aren't one of the best.

I just don't see how our team will be better off a year from now being stuck with Marion and JJ compared to TMac. Feeling that our draft pics are going to become something really special, better than all of the draft picks chosen from other teams is a pipe dream. Very few teams end up competing for a championship. I think we have an opportunity to in a few years if we pick up McGrady and with a little luck. I don't see it happening with JJ and Marion.

If you guys want to see us have a chance at the fourth seed in the Western conference keep the core we have. If you want a chance at a championship you need to get someone like McGrady or Kobe. There are only so many winners in the NBA. Betting on another draft pick turning out to be like Amare or several draft pics becoming perfect roleplayers when you aren't picking at the top of the draft will be long odds at best.

If the Rockets make this deal watch how they do compared to us with Yao and McGrady. I bet you they will be much better than us....

 

[JCSunsfan]

I really don't understand why we were stalling at moving JJ. He is a very inconsistant player. Either he stays inconsistant next year which would really hurt our team or he plays great and we have to pay him a lot of money. With Marion's max contract and JJ's possible very big contract (if he has a really good year could he ask for the max?!) . We could be paying as much or more than McGrady right? How many players have max contracts that aren't in the top ten players in the league, let alone five!? I think there are several including Marion. Many teams don't have the opportunity to get a top five player so they end up spending a lot of their money, sometimes giving out max contracts to players who aren't one of the best.
....

OK, I'll try to answer.

1. T-Mac led the league in scoring, but on a a bad team that did not have anyone else with whom he had to share shots. This means that he did get more defensive pressure, but he also got more shots.

2. T-Mac does not play D, has shown no interest in playing D.

3. T-Mac quit on his team this year.

4. T-Mac is demanding a trade--not a good sign in itself. Not a company guy.

5. T-Mac has injury issues (back) at a young age.

Conclusion: NBA GM's don't value T-Mac nearly as highly as NBA fans do. He's a very good player, but not the type of superstar that Kobe is. He's worth getting but not worth breaking the bank over.

1. JJ was a very young player when drafted. He has developed since then.

2. JJ was very consistent after the Marbs trade. It seemed something just "clicked" at that point.

3. JJ plays D--very well.

4. JJ is a very good ball handler and distributor. He's a contributor even when he isn't scoring.

5. JJ has no injury issues. Not only that, his playing style is such that he is less likely to have injury issues over other players that depend more on their athleticism.

6. JJ has a reasonable salary and should be able to be resigned for something reasonable.

Conclusion: NBA GM's value JJ higher than most NBA fans. He's new, he's not flashy, he does alot of little things that less knowledgable fans don't notice. He's a nice piece that you don't want to give away-- in this salary cap environment especially. He's not untradeable, but you have to stick to your guns to get proper value for him.

 

[yotes1921]

I agree, I like JJ and think he is a better fit for the Suns then T-MAC, now Kobe is a different issue, if somehow they can make that deal, they need to, Kobe has a will to win, I don't know if anyone saw Kobe and T-Mac toward the end of the year going at it. But Kobe dominated T-Mac. I would like to see Kobe improve on making the other guys better, but he is only 25

 

[cardsunsfan]

I hope McGrady would start playing better defense if he played for us and he felt that we could win. I also hope coaching would make a difference. I think McGrady gave up on the season when he felt that they had no chance of being a good team. He might have also played a little timid when he knew he wanted his team to trade him and he didn't want to get hurt and lower his market value.

JJ is very inconsistant. He could very well dissapear next year or start shooting attrociously again. Having Marion with a max contract might actually be a bad thing for our team. He is probably not worth it. Marion has never been very good in the playoffs although he is a good complimentary player which you want more than for a max contract. I think Marion has already hit his peak and I actually expect his play to decline because so much of his play is due to athleticism.

Signing TMac is taking a chance but I think we have a better chance with him than Marion and JJ.....

 

[George O'Brien]

OK, I'll try to answer.

1. T-Mac led the league in scoring, but on a a bad team that did not have anyone else with whom he had to share shots. This means that he did get more defensive pressure, but he also got more shots.

2. T-Mac does not play D, has shown no interest in playing D.

3. T-Mac quit on his team this year.

4. T-Mac is demanding a trade--not a good sign in itself. Not a company guy.

5. T-Mac has injury issues (back) at a young age.

Conclusion: NBA GM's don't value T-Mac nearly as highly as NBA fans do. He's a very good player, but not the type of superstar that Kobe is. He's worth getting but not worth breaking the bank over.

1. JJ was a very young player when drafted. He has developed since then.

2. JJ was very consistent after the Marbs trade. It seemed something just "clicked" at that point.

3. JJ plays D--very well.

4. JJ is a very good ball handler and distributor. He's a contributor even when he isn't scoring.

5. JJ has no injury issues. Not only that, his playing style is such that he is less likely to have injury issues over other players that depend more on their athleticism.

6. JJ has a reasonable salary and should be able to be resigned for something reasonable.

Conclusion: NBA GM's value JJ higher than most NBA fans. He's new, he's not flashy, he does alot of little things that less knowledgable fans don't notice. He's a nice piece that you don't want to give away-- in this salary cap environment especially. He's not untradeable, but you have to stick to your guns to get proper value for him.

I agree. Our image of JJ was set early. His problem was that he is not a great catch and shoot player, yet that is all the opportunties he got when playing with Marbury. Without Marbury JJ was getting the ball much earlier in the offense and "magically" became productive. Once he started attracting defensive attention he became a distributor and his assist totals jumped.

My view is that this is the REAL JJ, not the guy who was third option when Marbury was wasting time dribbling around trying to go one on five against opponents. Personnally, I think JJ is turning into a Rip Hamilton type guard, but a much better rebounder.

 

[elindholm]

If Johnson asks for too much money, the Suns can just show him the door. Problem solved.

 

[slinslin]

If Johnson asks for too much money, the Suns can just show him the door. Problem solved.

Trade asset lost for nothing...

 

[elindholm]

Trade asset lost for nothing...

Except all-precious cap space, which evidently the Suns can't get enough of.

 

[F-Dog]

If he's overpaid, he's no longer an asset.

Johnson will be a RFA next year, so the Suns will be able to match any offers. Unless he absolutely explodes next year, it will be tough for him to find another team that's willing to tie up most of its FA money on him, when the Suns are almost certain to match a couple of weeks later.

The Spurs are in the same position with Ginobili, so we'll see what kind of contract Manu winds up signing.

 

[elindholm]

Johnson would have to have an amazing season to be worth more than the MLE. "Mediocre erratic swingman" is the easiest position in the league to fill.

 

[cardsunsfan]

If Johnson asks for too much money, the Suns can just show him the door. Problem solved.

yeah problem solved...except wait.... we could have had McGrady for him! Who will be on the market that is as good as McGrady if Johnson leaves...

 

[F-Dog]

Johnson would have to have an amazing season to be worth more than the MLE. "Mediocre erratic swingman" is the easiest position in the league to fill.

I guess it all depends--word from NJ is that they're resigned to the prospect of maxing out Richard Jefferson next year.

Corey Maggette's contract will probably be more of a benchmark for JJ, though.

 

[Joe Mama]

JJ's game really only has a couple holes. The first and maybe the biggest one is his shooting consistency. In the end I believe this is what will determine whether he gets a contract starting at $5-6 million a year or a contract starting at $8-10 million per year. The next hole in his game is his consistency. He needs to bring it every night. I believe this goes hand-in-hand with his shooting. If he's shooting well he will be more aggressive. The other thing he needs to work on is his turnovers.

If JJ can fill these holes, the team plays well, and he is asking for a nice contract I say give it to him.

Perhaps I'm smoking that crack people keep talking about when my glasses are overly rose colored, but I honestly believe this will be a good team if they just add some pieces around these players. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against Kobe Bryant. I just believe this can be a very good team without him.

Joe Mama

 

[George O'Brien]

JJ's game really only has a couple holes. The first and maybe the biggest one is his shooting consistency. In the end I believe this is what will determine whether he gets a contract starting at $5-6 million a year or a contract starting at $8-10 million per year. The next hole in his game is his consistency. He needs to bring it every night. I believe this goes hand-in-hand with his shooting. If he's shooting well he will be more aggressive. The other thing he needs to work on is his turnovers.

If JJ can fill these holes, the team plays well, and he is asking for a nice contract I say give it to him.

Perhaps I'm smoking that crack people keep talking about when my glasses are overly rose colored, but I honestly believe this will be a good team if they just add some pieces around these players. Don't get me wrong. I'm not against Kobe Bryant. I just believe this can be a very good team without him.

Joe Mama

It's curious that JJ is considered inconsistent, even though he was the team's first option on offense and had a better shooting percentage than T-Mac, Pierce, and Iverson.

I have this feeling that there is a kind of "grass is greener" approach to looking at players. We see all of our own player's faults, but don't get a chance to see what these other guys are doing day in and out. Are we looking at players or just their reputations?

 

[Goldfield]

I cant believe people forget JJ is about the same age as Amare...


He is improving, and has shown us more than flashes of what he can become.




Will he be a superstar??? No, but he can be a top SG, with a very balanced game. I love the kid. He is one of the pieces we NEED.

 

[Dylan]

It's curious that JJ is considered inconsistent, even though he was the team's first option on offense and had a better shooting percentage than T-Mac, Pierce, and Iverson.

I have this feeling that there is a kind of "grass is greener" approach to looking at players. We see all of our own player's faults, but don't get a chance to see what these other guys are doing day in and out. Are we looking at players or just their reputations?

Kinda like the backup QB in football is always popular whenever the starter has a bad game. Then, he gets in, and you see his faults.

 

[Dylan]

I cant believe people forget JJ is about the same age as Amare...


He is improving, and has shown us more than flashes of what he can become.




Will he be a superstar??? No, but he can be a top SG, with a very balanced game. I love the kid. He is one of the pieces we NEED.

Agreed. And I love that size, both height and weight. Can play 3 positions. During a long season that really comes in handy with injuries.

 

[cardsunsfan]

I cant believe people forget JJ is about the same age as Amare...


He is improving, and has shown us more than flashes of what he can become.




Will he be a superstar??? No, but he can be a top SG, with a very balanced game. I love the kid. He is one of the pieces we NEED.

Not for the max we don't and if he does improve and becomes more consistant he might just get it too... as I mentioned before teams are giving max contracts out to players that aren't super stars because their are only so many of them.. .so the question might be...do we want to give up a max contract that we maybe shouldn't have given in Marion...and a potential max contract that isn't a superstar for McGrady?

 

[pokerface]

Not for the max we don't and if he does improve and becomes more consistant he might just get it too... as I mentioned before teams are giving max contracts out to players that aren't super stars because their are only so many of them.. .so the question might be...do we want to give up a max contract that we maybe shouldn't have given in Marion...and a potential max contract that isn't a superstar for McGrady?

You've been making a lot of assumptions. You're assuming JJ will be inconsistant his whole NBA career. You dont allow for players to mature and get better. You're assuming JJ will get max or near max money...but I guess that means you think JJ WILL improve...correct?

You seem to mention Tmac is a "superstar" over and over....like anyone who isnt superstar is almost subhuman or something. Marion and JJ have a lot of value even though they do not have the superstar tag. Marion has been to an allstar game and JJ might be going to one before his career is over...lets not sell them too short.

 

[George O'Brien]

This is part of a continued debate on this board. One side takes the position that the way to get to the championship is to have two superstars and some support players. The other side wants to have a very strong overall team with just one superstar (Amare).

In the last 15 years two teams have done it with two superstars - Da Bulls and the Lakers. Houston won with one, San Antonio with 1 and with 2, Detroit in the 90's did it without a true shooting superstar and the latest version without any true offensive superstars.

What does it prove? Not much. The rules were changed a few years ago that gave a lot more flexibility to the defense by eliminating the "illegal defense" calls. My suspicion is that the trend will be toward a more balanced attack without reliance on a 25 ppg shooting star, but only time will tell if I'm right.