would you trade leinart for cutler

?

  • yes

    Votes: 46 36.5%
  • no

    Votes: 80 63.5%

  • Total voters
    126

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I wouldn't. He's great quarterback and all, but he's acting kind of childish. Also, we have Kurt for two more years. He'd be number two when he got here and judging by the way he's acting, he'd be a big baby because of it.
 

Zeno

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Don't even get me started on how screwed over Rivers was in '08. But just because Rivers didn't go didn't mean Cutler wasn't deserving. I would have put Cutler in ahead of Favre so even in "woulda, coulda, shoulda" talk I think Cutler should have been there.

Cutler is by no means perfect but he's far outperformed Leinart to this point. I haven't watched him enough to know how clutch or un-clutch that he is. I know his defense was horrible in '08 and no lead was safe so it's hard to really judge him in that regard. I know he threw a TD and a 2 point conversion to beat SD after Ed blew the fumble call.

A 25 year old QB that put up 4,500 yards and 25 TD's with no running game or defense to support him? I'd take that for my team.

You take the stats and I'll take a guy who knows how to win....Cutler didn't prove he was a winner in college and hasn't proven it in the pro's.

The Broncos only needed 1 win out of their last 3, Cutler threw 2 TDs to 4 INTs, sure he threw for a ton of yards but he couldn't get them in to the endzone.
 

Zeno

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So you don't want Leinart either?

Convenient how you omit part of my quote...you know THIS part "Cutler didn't prove he was a winner in college and hasn't proven it in the pro's."

Let see Leinart had 3 BCS appearances in college...Cutler never had a winning record. Cutler hasn't had a winning record in the pros, neither has Leinart but Leinart has shown he knows how to win at least in college.

Also the fact that Leinart has demonstrated some maturity and leadership at BOTH levels compared to Cutler. The choice for Leinart is easy.
 

ASUCHRIS

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Convenient how you omit part of my quote...you know THIS part "Cutler didn't prove he was a winner in college and hasn't proven it in the pro's."

Let see Leinart had 3 BCS appearances in college...Cutler never had a winning record. Cutler hasn't had a winning record in the pros, neither has Leinart but Leinart has shown he knows how to win at least in college.

Also the fact that Leinart has demonstrated some maturity and leadership at BOTH levels compared to Cutler. The choice for Leinart is easy.

Comparing their college careers and pro careers to this point is ridiculous. Leinart was surrounded by superior talent at almost every position, Cutler played at Vandy. How could you possibly compare the two?

I guess Leinart has demonstrated some maturity and leadership, but you can make a strong case that he's demonstrated exactly the opposite as well. This is the same Matt Leinart that was openly criticized by the head coach for not putting the necessary work in and maybe you forgot beerbonggate?

Cutler is definitely being a baby, having said that, I don't think you would find one nfl exec who would prefer Leinart at this point.
 

Ryanwb

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We can't sign Cutler, if the Cardinals are too cheap to keep the Gatoraide fridge unlocked... think how tight fisted they would be having to buy Cutler's tampons
 

moklerman

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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

Broncos quarterback Jay Cutler said Sunday night he has formally asked Denver to trade him and confirmed that a Saturday meeting with first-year coach Josh McDaniels ended badly from his perspective, while McDaniels offered another viewpoint on Sunday night.

"I went in there with every intention of solving the issue, being a Bronco, moving forward as a Bronco," Cutler said. "We weren't in there but about 20 minutes, [McDaniels] did most of the talking and as far as I'm concerned, he made it clear he wants his own guy. He admitted he wanted Matt Cassel because he said he has raised him up from the ground as a quarterback. He said he wasn't sorry about it. He made it clear that he could still entertain trading me because, as he put it, he'll do whatever he feels is in the best interest of the organization.

Jay Cutler said while new Denver coach Josh McDaniels hasn't been critical of him, Cutler can no longer trust McDaniels.
"At the end of the meeting, he wasn't like, 'Jay, I want you as our quarterback, you're our guy.' It felt like the opposite. He basically said that I needed to tell him if we can't work this out, to let him know," Cutler added. "I thought he was antagonizing me and that was disappointing because I was ready to move on, committed as a Bronco. Really, I figured we'd hash things out, shake hands, laugh a little and move forward. What happened [Saturday] was the last thing I expected. If I didn't think it could be fixed, I never would have come back to Denver. It was painfully obvious to me and Bus [Cook, his agent] it's not something they want to fix."

Consequently, Cutler instructed Cook, who also attended the meeting, to formally request a trade. The quarterback said he left town late Sunday and would skip McDaniels' first (non-mandatory) team meeting Monday as they begin their offseason program.

Broncos owner Pat Bowlen told the Denver Post on Sunday that he was disappointed with how Cutler has handled the situation. In a telephone interview with ESPN, McDaniels was reluctantly expansive on the story.

"I really have wanted to avoid a he-said, she-said thing but it's only fair for us to present the Bronco side of the story rather than let things get taken out of context," McDaniels said. "There's been a pattern here for the past two weeks the way things [have been represented] in our communications. I don't think anythng that happened [Saturday] was out of the ordinary. At the end of the meeting, Jay said he had thought about things quite a bit and requested a few more hours to mull things over. He said he wanted to talk to Bus on how to proceed. He was gonna call me on my cell phone and that never happened. Instead, Bus called [GM] Brian [Xanders].

"Again, I think that's been a pattern. I couldn't get [Cutler] to talk to me for two weeks or to talk to Mr. Bowlen. Then when he came here this weekend, we couldn't get a one-on-one meeting, just me and him alone. He wanted Bus in there, so I had Brian sit in, too. And it was the four of us. There wasn't any yelling, none of that. I can't believe we get to a totally different [interpretation].

"It's an unfortunate set of circumstances that has cropped up, a potential distraction and we've done our best to limit that. The main message I want to get out is that we're excited to start our offseason program [Monday]. It's an exciting time for us."

Cutler was not present for Monday's team meeting.

"I certainly went back there, expecting I'd be there [Monday] but not now," Cutler said. "It's not mandatory. I'll attend every mandatory mini-camp and training camp but that's it. Really, it's best for me to move on. As coach said, he needs every eye in the meeting room to be on him and not me."

As McDaniels pointed out, Cutler had a completely different expectation when he left their private meeting on Saturday.

Cutler said: "You know, even after the meeting, I hung around town, kind of expecting him to call me and say, 'Hey, let's just me and you get away and have lunch or a cup of coffee' and mend things, but that didn't happen. So, I get it, really, it's a business. I'm disappointed because I love being a Bronco but I think it's run its course."

Cutler denied recent reports that he had asked to be traded when the Broncos fired offensive coordinator Jeremy Bates.

"Yes, I was upset when they let Jeremy go because Mr. Bowlen had assured me when Mike [Shanahan] was fired that the offense wouldn't change because it was the second-ranked offense in football," Cutler said. "But I didn't push for a trade then."

McDaniels and Cutler agreed on at least one element of the controversy, knocking down a Sunday report on NFL Network that the coach had criticized the quarterback's play in 2008.

"That just isn't true," McDaniels said. "Not a word has been said about that."

Cutler added: "Josh has never said anything negative to me about my play or anything else, for that matter."

McDaniels admitted that the team got involved in trade discussions for Cassel, who instead was dealt to the Kansas City Chiefs. However, he said any perception Cutler felt that the team could still trade him was misleading.

"That's what we have communicated ever since the deal with Cassel didn't happen," McDaniels said. "Other teams have called but we're not interested in getting draft picks for Jay. I never made a statement [Saturday] that 'you can be traded at any time.' They asked a question and I told them it was the time of year when people inquire about your team. Your job, as a head coach and general manager, is to listen and not bypass any opportunity to help your team improve. I think most people [in the NFL] feel the same way. You make smart, educated decisions that are best for your football team."

Cutler feels like McDaniels lost his credibility with him when he initially denied to the quarterback that the Broncos tried to acquire Cassel only to admit it later.

"Before this trade for Cassel thing ever came up, in the two weeks or so I had spent with McDaniels, he was basically telling me that he came to Denver because he wanted to coach me and that we needed to trust each other," Cutler said. "He's never been critical to me. But trust now? How can I trust him now?"

He also explained that his house being put up for sale was "nothing more than a coincidence."

"I had already shown my house privately to some interested buyers a couple of months ago," Cutler said. "I've really been looking to buy 40 to 70 acres of land there."

As for ignoring phone calls from McDaniels and Bowlen, Cutler said: "Josh and I have exchanged text messages. We had a conference call. And if Pat wanted to speak to me, why didn't he come to the meeting on Saturday?"

Cook said that as an agent he was "totally in shock" that it has gotten so ugly.

"I would have bet my house going into Saturday's meeting that everyone would be shaking hands and smiling," Cook said. "I thought it was going to get worked out. But it was very clear to me that Jay Cutler is not their choice to be quarterback of that team."

Yet Cook admitted that when he called Xanders to request a trade on Saturday night, the team's general manager said it wasn't going to happen and that "Jay should show up Monday."

That wasn't going to happen, either.
 

Zeno

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Comparing their college careers and pro careers to this point is ridiculous. Leinart was surrounded by superior talent at almost every position, Cutler played at Vandy. How could you possibly compare the two?

I guess Leinart has demonstrated some maturity and leadership, but you can make a strong case that he's demonstrated exactly the opposite as well. This is the same Matt Leinart that was openly criticized by the head coach for not putting the necessary work in and maybe you forgot beerbonggate?

Cutler is definitely being a baby, having said that, I don't think you would find one nfl exec who would prefer Leinart at this point.

Some players know how to win and some don't. Cutler hasn't proven he knows how to win, Vandy or not...Eli was able to win with a bad team at Ole Miss. Is called an intagible, not something that is measured by size, arm strength etc, something guys have or don't...some guys make the players around them better, Cutler hasn't demonstrated that. You can even argue Leinart made the players around him appear better than they actually were...have you heard from Mike Williams, Dominique Byrd or Keary Colbert lately?

Who was the last Super Bowl winning QB who had a losing record in college? Brad Johnson comes the closest because he didn't win in college through no fault of his own he was a back-up to a Heisman winner. Otherwise I can't think of any in the past 20 yrs.

Comparing Leinart having a party at his house to Cutler openly criticizing the organization (or ignoring his run in with the cops in Nashville while in college or his public bickering with Rivers) is ridiculous.
 

moklerman

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I think McDaniels is going to go down as a giant mistake. I'm really not sure why the owner has completely backed McDaniels in favor of dumping Shanahan and alienating Cutler.
 

lauraw

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cutler is a lousy teammate, and generally just a son ofa bitch to be around. all these posts about jay needing tampons etal. hit it on the head. he is a prima donna.. I would much rather have a slowly maturing leinert who's a good teammate and has his head screwed on straight when it comes to that level of maturity[being a teammate]
matt still has a ways to go , but he has a year more or two under a HOF qb to learn from. i've read these things about cutler in the denver media over the last 10 days or so.
 
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moklerman

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Some players know how to win and some don't. Cutler hasn't proven he knows how to win, Vandy or not
I don't think you're giving Cutler enough credit. He was the SEC player of the year in 2005. For Vanderbilt.
Is called an intagible, not something that is measured by size, arm strength etc, something guys have or don't
Like JD Booty? His college record and numbers were pretty good. They were much better than Cutler's at any rate. Is Booty better than Cutler?
You can even argue Leinart made the players around him appear better than they actually were...have you heard from Mike Williams, Dominique Byrd or Keary Colbert lately?
I've heard of LenDale White, Reggie Bush, Deuce Lutui, Lofa Tatupu, Shaun Cody, Kenechi Udeze & Will Poole not to mention all the other guys that didn't become starters in the NFL. USC was just plain stacked and it wasn't because Leinart lifted these guys. The Trojans were rolling before Leinart started to play and have continue to play well since he left.
Comparing Leinart having a party at his house to Cutler openly criticizing the organization (or ignoring his run in with the cops in Nashville while in college or his public bickering with Rivers) is ridiculous.
It's also ridiculous to imply that that is the only issue Leinart's had off the field.
 

Zeno

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It's also ridiculous to imply that that is the only issue Leinart's had off the field.

What off the field issue did Leinart have that included either a public criticism of his organization, a run in with the law or a public bickering with another player? What did Leinart do aside from have a party at his house which the biggest mistake he made was allowing someone to take pictures? What other off the field issue? He's about as clean cut as they come...he graduated school early, he has shown himself to be charitable, he participates in all the teams offseason activities, and seems to really care about the AZ community.

Moklerman your dislike of Leinart is pretty well recorded. You don't like him and you love Warner, we get it. I for one want Leinart to succceed because I am a Cardinal fan and aside from a durability issue that worries me I haven't seen anything from him to make me think he can't succeed.
 

Mainstreet

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Some players know how to win and some don't. Cutler hasn't proven he knows how to win, Vandy or not...

Neither has Leinart unless just going by their play in college.

I don't know if Cutler would be a better QB for the Cardinals than Leinart but I certainly think Cutler has more talent than Leinart. I especially like his mobility and arm strength. I'm just not sure if Leinart is the QB of the future in regard to his level of talent. He certainly has not received much playing time. I guess I would rather gamble on talent when there is not that much that distinguishes the two players.
 
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moklerman

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Moklerman your dislike of Leinart is pretty well recorded. You don't like him and you love Warner, we get it. I for one want Leinart to succceed because I am a Cardinal fan and aside from a durability issue that worries me I haven't seen anything from him to make me think he can't succeed.
then you don't get it at all. I have argued that Warner was the better choice for starter and, as it turns out, I was right.

Leinart has been in the press before too. The custody battle/drama over his baby. Admitting that he didn't know the playbook. The "ride or die" comments. None of which is as incriminating as what some other players have done but it's very much along the lines of bickering with teammates and being upset with the organization after they try to trade you.

I don't have a problem with Leinart's potential but his durability is a giant albatross around his neck at this point. He's had three chances to just hang onto the starting job and hasn't been able to do it. Not win the job, just not lose it. You may have supreme confidence in him and I may have hope in him but it's starting to become an issue. When compared to Cutler, who never missed a college game in 4 years and hasn't missed any since '06 in the NFL is the better choice on that fact alone. I would guess they are comparable in overall ability but Cutler's got Leinart beat hands down in durability, statistics and experience at this point.
 

Duckjake

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I don't have a problem with Leinart's potential but his durability is a giant albatross around his neck at this point. He's had three chances to just hang onto the starting job and hasn't been able to do it. Not win the job, just not lose it.

Sounds like another current Cardinal QB. Got hurt the season after a loss in a Championship game and missed several games posting a 67 passer rating (2002). Lost his starting job for good the next season(2003). Picked up by another team he's named the starter but can't hold the position and is replaced by a rookie(2004).

On to his third team in 3 years the following season he gets hurt and loses the starting position, not once but twice, and Josh McCown finishes the season for Arizona(2005). Year two in the desert he loses his starting job again to a rookie(2006).

That's six times in 5 years the guy couldn't hold the starting position. Three times due to injury and three because of poor play and his record as a starter was 8-23.

Plus he was hurt again in 2007 and had to come out of a game.

Since that injury in 2007 that same QB has started every game including 20 in 2008.

I'd say its a little early to be worrying about durability or performance being an albatross on Leinart's career.
 

moklerman

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I'd say its a little early to be worrying about durability or performance being an albatross on Leinart's career.
If Leinart had any previous time of staying healthy in the NFL or at the professional level I might not be so concerned. Warner played 3 years of Arena League, 1 year of NFL Europe and 28 games in the NFL before getting injured.

And if you want to equate Warner's situation with Leinart's, then go the last step and say how confident you were in Warner staying healthy after '06. If he and Leinart are equitable, then how you felt about Warner's chances should resemble how you feel about Leinart's.

Also, I don't think Leinart's shortcomings on the field are going to be solved by wearing scuba gloves.
 

Duckjake

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And if you want to equate Warner's situation with Leinart's, then go the last step and say how confident you were in Warner staying healthy after '06. If he and Leinart are equitable, then how you felt about Warner's chances should resemble how you feel about Leinart's.

I wasn't worried at all about Warner staying healthy after 2006. Like Leinart, Warner's injuries weren't in the style of a Tom Knight. I was concerned that after 5 years of inconsistent play and an 8-23 record as a starter that, at age 35, Kurt just didn't have it anymore.

However, after watching guys like Phil Simms, Jim Hart, Steve Young & Trent Green turn things around after several years I learned to never count out any QB.
 

moklerman

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I wasn't worried at all about Warner staying healthy after 2006.
I don't know if that statement has ever been expressed on this board. I know I wasn't confident/worry-free about Warner staying healthy at age 36 & 37.
 

seesred

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We would not do the deal and Cutler would veto the trade. He is not going to be a back up in Arizona now that Warner has the job for at least 1 year.

GBR
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JeffGollin

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I raised this issue on another thread -

This is a very tricky issue.

First there's the matter of whether Cutler's "cranky attitude" was justified, chronic or a function of immaturity that he should grow out of.

There's also the matter of whether the media is reporting everything that went down or whether there are other missing pieces to the story.

Same thing regarding Leinart. The perception most of us have - without having access behind the scenes - is that Matt is handling this in a positive fashion. But is he really? (Probably, but do we really know)?

Then you get into actual on-field performance: Cutler has had more opportunities to show his wares (both the good and not-so-good). The last time Matt got to really show everyone what he'd got was when he laid the egg in preseason. So in absolute terms - leading his team, making all the throws, escaping pressure and making positive things happen - which guy is best?

Finally, sometimes in sports, business and in life, things develop which make things difficult if not tenable for a person who "really didn't deserve to be treated that way." While "business is business", sometimes the right thing to do is to pull the trigger on a decision because it could help out that person while netting you out even on the deal. Perhaps a change of scenery would be beneficial to Matt and, for that matter, Cutler as well. But of course, this would depend on Jay's attitude and mindset (i.e.would he be willing to sit for at least part of a year in a good situation - in order to escape Denver)?
 

ajcardfan

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Cutler is going to be just good enough to break your heart for a solid decade. He'll make some Pro Bowls, put up big numbers, but I think he'll never be a big time winner.
 

Saxon079

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This is Kurt's team at least this season so I don't see the Cardinals doing anything to get Cutler. But I thought people would like him more than they do. He did pass for 4,526 yards only 57 yards less than Kurt with out Q, Fitz and Breaston to pass to. He did put it up 616 times but Kurt had 598 att so I don't see a big difference there. Kurt definitely had a better year but he had one of the best of all time. He certainly has not said anything worse than Q has I would trade Matt for Cutler if the team didn't just pay Kurt 19 million for next year.
 

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